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Preferred tablet

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n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:25 am Post subject: Preferred tablet

Many of you are using tablet portable computers with charts, etc.  I've done

some searching through the archives.  But perhaps there are new opinions.

Therefore, from your perspective, which is the preferred tablet platform and

why?  Assume multiple uses besides in the plane.  That is, replacing a

notebook.  Also, assume IFR and thus which software product have you found

to be to your likening?  It's time to help the economy.  Besides, my laptop

just went belly up.      



Many thanks in advance.  



John Jessen

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject: Preferred tablet

Sony PRS-700BC eBook Reader.  Not a laptop but simpler to use in a cockpit.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B001HHZ1S6/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=AN8LN2YPKS7DF&v=glance

William

http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



------

n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject: Preferred tablet

Interesting.  What s/w do you use with this?   






Sony PRS-700BC eBook Reader.  Not a laptop but simpler to use in a cockpit.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B001HHZ1S6/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5

Fencoding=UTF8&m=AN8LN2YPKS7DF&v=glance

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: Preferred tablet

John,



My advice would be if you're going to look for something to use mainly

in the plane, then look at all the models that are available from

some of the aviation software companies, like Golden Eagle Chart Case,

and Seattle Avionics.  They sell the models that probably work best

for plane use.  I like the motion tablets because you can get the

View Anywhere and Ultra View Anywhere displays, which are nice for

in the daylight.  Most average laptops/tablets will get real washed

out in sunlight.  So there is benefit to paying more.  I just got done

putting a SSD by using a CF card into my LE1600, and swapped memory

up to a 2GB module. The CF Card thing cost me about $110, and the

memory about $25-30.  It seems to work pretty good, although in

terms of current horsepower, the dual-core stuff will blow it away.

Those LE1600's with ViewAnywhere screens can be had for about $800

or so, as a cheap way to get into it.  One of the guys at

Seattle Avionics really loves his convertable tablet...I think

it may be a fujitsu or something.  I think you'll find that

opinions and usages vary wildly.



While this page has some pretty non-current info on it, I did

recently update it.

http://www.myrv10.com/tips/IFR/Chart_Software.html



I'm flying with Voyager software, myself, so have no need for

paper any longer.  Interestingly, there was just an article in

Aviation Consumer about the 696, and after reading that, I am

convinced that it really is lacking in filling the real needs

of what pilots of this late decade really need.  Turns out they

won't ever be doing geo-referenced charts on it, and there are

literally dozens of features that it won't do compared with

either of the most popular EFB software packages.  Either

Chart Case or Voyager EFB really blow it away in capabilities

for the most part.  And, it's great to be able to use the

machine for more than just a GPS.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John Jessen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Many of you are using tablet portable computers with charts, etc.  I've done

 some searching through the archives.  But perhaps there are new opinions.

 Therefore, from your perspective, which is the preferred tablet platform and

 why?  Assume multiple uses besides in the plane.  That is, replacing a

 notebook.  Also, assume IFR and thus which software product have you found

 to be to your likening?  It's time to help the economy.  Besides, my laptop

 just went belly up.      

 

 Many thanks in advance.  

 

 John Jessen

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: Preferred tablet

As an eBook reader, it has a proprietary OS with the specific purpose of displaying eBooks and certain other (PDF, DOC, TXT, JPG, BMP, MP3, etc) digital formats.  To try it out just put some PDF approach plates on an SD card and take it to a local store (Target, Best Buy, etc) that carries these units.  Once you plug in the SD card, the unit will display a listing of all recognized files.  Pull up a plate and see how you like it.



The earlier 500 and 505 units worked fine but an approach plate was very tiny on the display.  It was legible but very small.



William

http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



------

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: Preferred tablet

The ebook readers are gray scale. They look great in bright sunlight but 

require lighting at night.



Larry



William Curtis wrote:

[quote] 



 As an eBook reader, it has a proprietary OS with the specific purpose of displaying eBooks and certain other (PDF, DOC, TXT, JPG, BMP, MP3, etc) digital formats.  To try it out just put some PDF approach plates on an SD card and take it to a local store (Target, Best Buy, etc) that carries these units.  Once you plug in the SD card, the unit will display a listing of all recognized files.  Pull up a plate and see how you like it.



 The earlier 500 and 505 units worked fine but an approach plate was very tiny on the display.  It was legible but very small.



 William

 http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



 ------

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: Preferred tablet

If you are going for a new laptop to replace your current one and also use in the aircraft you will probably want a convertible.  The slates are nice as EFB's but can be a pain when you want to use it normally.  The down side is the convertibles are a bit more bulky.  I have had one of the first Toshiba convertible tablets to come out for many years now and it's always worked well.  The Lenovo X61 tablet is very nice but like most Lenovo devices they are business orientated so are a bit utilitarian and expensive but are bulletproof.  The HP tx series are more consumer orientated so they are cheaper and have lots of bells and whistles but are also bulkier.  They are usually reviewed well also.



  If you are looking at a new laptop to also be used in an aircraft, spring the extra cash for a SSD.  Tim's idea works well as long as you are not using it as a single purpose device and not as a regular laptop.  CF cards, even the newest cards like the Sandisk Extreme IV (45MB/s), are still about 3-5 times slower than the current SATA-1 (150MB/s) or SATAII (300MB/s) SSD's and hard drives and are technically even slower than USB2 (60MB/s and assuming a good thumb drive not the kind you get at a trade show).  I've also heard of corruption of CF's and USB sticks if they are really loaded up from say something like opening a Word doc, switching to your email, and having a movie playing in the background.  Never mind doing something like that from a CF card or USB device would probably take several minutes.



  If your laptop has a standard SATA interface in it you can get lower quality SSD's for sub-$100 prices now and they will still be better performing than even most hard drives.  Here is a 30GB SATAII SSD with a USB port also for $75...



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227372



Michael

--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:28 am Post subject: Preferred tablet

Michael's really got some great points.  I really myself

believe that you won't be happy with a laptop/tablet that

you try to use heavily as a dual-use device.  If you get

something with a SSD, which you really almost HAVE to for

in the plane, you're not going to be as thrilled with it

in use as a laptop.  Laptops are slow enough compared to

today's desktops as it is, so when shopping for a PC that

you'll use heavily outside of the plane, you're probably

going to want more drive space, more processor, more speed,

and all that good stuff.  When going for something to use

in the plane, you will be more concerned with weight,

form factor, battery life, SSD, and those sorts of things.

Yeah, you can find some that will do "ok" dual use, but

you'll probably be sacrificing on one thing or another...

and that will just make you angry in the end.



My motion LE1600 is now old, but the good things about it

compared to some of the new is that the screen resolution

is good, but not super high, like many new notebooks or

even the LE1700.  More pixels means slower in graphics,

in many cases.  The new stuff is also expensive, whereas

the older can be had pretty cheap.  Taking an older,

HP consumer convertable laptop/tablet can be a good way to

go too, if you can get one with a 2.5" drive, because as

Michael pointed out, 2.5" SataII drives are cheap.  In my

case, I had a 1.8" drive....those are pretty pricey especially

with the ZIF connector I had...which is why I used CF.

The ZIF 1.8" commercial SSD's are faster than my Pseudo-ssd,

but tons more expensive.



With a tablet, as opposed to something like a 696, you can

go on a vacation and have a PC to get weather, internet,

email, file flight plans, and all that stuff, and you can

pull it out to the hotel with you.  So I think it works

great for travelling.  I use a silicone roll-up keyboard

with it that is very light and small, too. (less than $10)

So it does quite well for a traveling machine.  But, I would

HATE to use it as my sole laptop.  In fact, on some trips,

I KNOW I'll be doing a lot of remote access work, and will

use the VPN heavily, so I just bring my laptop in addition.

But that's because that is my primary PC, and if I plan

to do lots of work, I bring it.  But, my tablet also can

get me connected via VPN, and for unplanned work, it does

just fine.  So it's really handy to just grab a notepad

binder sized thing and just take it with me whenever I go

to the airport.  It serves really well, but I don't consider

it a full laptop replacement.



Another area where I think people would be disappointed is

with permanent mounting of something like an EFB tablet.

Even with mounting it on some sort of fixed holder.  The

problem is, while in turbulence I can hold it and touch the

screen with the pen and enter fixes, and click links, and

pull up approach plates, if it were hard mounted, I think in

bumps it would be just plain miserable to try to reach out

with a finger or a pen and tap those links or letters.

You would make so many tapping mistakes it would drive you

crazy.



Oh, I did just remember one thing that is nicer about

EFB software than the 696, also.  The 696's approach plates

do not fit on the screen in full size without panning

around to see the chart.  Check the specs on the screen

resolution and a 696 compares closer to an iphone than

a tablet PC.  With a tablet/laptop, you can load an entire

approach plate on the screen and see and read the whole thing.

The chart subscription is more than twice as complete as

the 696, also, for a lower cost, and that is comparing

it at the "EFB" level, which includes EVERYTHING. If you

don't care for geo-referenced charts, there are software

packages that cost a bunch less with much cheaper chart

subscriptions.



Anyway, for most people, we still live in a world where

if you're an avid power user, you need 3-4 devices to

tickle your fancy.  A full-sized PC with lots of drive

space and power for video editing, and heavy photo editing,

and any real power work, a reasonably powerful laptop

to do your daily work, and use around the house so you

can check email and get work done while laying in your

lazy boy, a tablet or small convertable laptop for use

in the plane if you want charts and those goodies,

and lastly, I'm now totally in love with the iPhone/iTouch

as an ultra-portable way to keep connected when you

don't feel like bringing all that other stuff along.

There's no way the i"Stuff" will ever replace an EFB package,

but man it's handy when you're on the go.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

[quote] 

 <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

 

 If you are going for a new laptop to replace your current one and

 also use in the aircraft you will probably want a convertible.  The

 slates are nice as EFB's but can be a pain when you want to use it

 normally.  The down side is the convertibles are a bit more bulky.  I

 have had one of the first Toshiba convertible tablets to come out for

 many years now and it's always worked well.  The Lenovo X61 tablet is

 very nice but like most Lenovo devices they are business orientated

 so are a bit utilitarian and expensive but are bulletproof.  The HP

 tx series are more consumer orientated so they are cheaper and have

 lots of bells and whistles but are also bulkier.  They are usually

 reviewed well also.

 

 If you are looking at a new laptop to also be used in an aircraft,

 spring the extra cash for a SSD.  Tim's idea works well as long as

 you are not using it as a single purpose device and not as a regular

 laptop.  CF cards, even the newest cards like the Sandisk Extreme IV

 (45MB/s), are still about 3-5 times slower than the current SATA-1

 (150MB/s) or SATAII (300MB/s) SSD's and hard drives and are

 technically even slower than USB2 (60MB/s and assuming a good thumb

 drive not the kind you get at a trade show).  I've also heard of

 corruption of CF's and USB sticks if they are really loaded up from

 say something like opening a Word doc, switching to your email, and

 having a movie playing in the background.  Never mind doing something

 like that from a CF card or USB device would probably take several

 minutes.

 

 If your laptop has a standard SATA interface in it you can get lower

 quality SSD's for sub-$100 prices now and they will still be better

 performing than even most hard drives.  Here is a 30GB SATAII SSD

 with a USB port also for $75...

 

 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227372

 

 Michael

 

 

 --

n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: Preferred tablet

The attached is what Tim was referring to, a hard mounted Motion 1700.  



As I've done a more thorough search, I'm unfortunately coming to the same

conclusion as Tim's post, namely there is still no one solution.  I built a

screaming desktop to render those HD videos and all the other work (this

Linux stuff is kinda cool... different topic).  I need a good, not high end

laptop for traveling on business, but that won't do for the EFB usage on the

plane.  



However, check out this nice post about the same topic, which I thought

might be helpful.  From Richard Eastman, a Sportsman flyer.



=======================================



I have been a long-time user of the Motion Computing Tablet.  I use it in my

office ... my car ... and my plane.  There are a number of software programs

that use the Motion Computing tool ... both as an OEM solution and simply

loading the software onto an independently purchased Motion Computing

platform.  



The Motion Computing platform is a superb environment.  My first machine is

6 years old at this point and serves as both my back-up AND the file-server

that runs my home network.  My current machine is three years old.  I run

all the standard Office software on it ... my company's computer programs

.. and actually source AOPA's new Internet Flight Planner on it for flight

planning via a Sprint wireless card or a local area network when available. 



I have considered putting the Seattle Avionics' Voyager on my back-up for

use in the plane; but the economy has put a bit of a hold on buying new

toys.  I was looking at the Voyager software before Glasair's Alan Negrin

moved over there.  It's a good package and Seattle Avionics OEM's it on the

Motion Computing platform. 



And while I'm pretty impressed with the new Garmin 696, the fact that I have

most of the 696 features in the plane's avionics already, I expect that I'll

end up putting software on my Motion platform.  



I should add that I know that the Motion platform can be read in the

airplane as I've actually gone online using the Sprint card while flying to

Apple Valley ... and pulled up the AOPA Flight Planner software en route.

It won't be long before we'll all be able to access flight planning programs

en route via Internet as that technology continues to evolve; particularly

for low-level flying where the GlaStar and Sportsman fly. 



 	  Quote: 	
		  From a maintenance standpoint, I've had virtually no problems with the

Motion Computing platform -- and I'd be considered a "power user" by most
	


users.  I've dropped both of them a number of times ... or had them fall off

of things.  The only things that have ever broken were cosmetic plastic

covers.  



// Richard 



--

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dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: Preferred tablet

Before I retired, we were using Motion Computing LS800's with the  

solid state drive as EFB's on the corporate jets I flew. We had  

Jeppesen Flitedeck for charts, Citation performance calculator,  

Weight and Balance, Operating Manual, and Aircraft Flight Manual on  

the machines. Additionally, we had manuals for all of the various  

avionics and training materials loaded. We used a bluetooth  

connection to display WSI In Flight wx. The machines were just about  

flawless and we used them hard. I will probably buy one for my own  

EFB in the -10.



David Maib

40559

Phase 1 finished, in the paint shop.



On Jan 5, 2009, at 12:54 PM, John Jessen wrote:



The attached is what Tim was referring to, a hard mounted Motion 1700.



As I've done a more thorough search, I'm unfortunately coming to the  

same

conclusion as Tim's post, namely there is still no one solution.  I  

built a

screaming desktop to render those HD videos and all the other work (this

Linux stuff is kinda cool... different topic).  I need a good, not  

high end

laptop for traveling on business, but that won't do for the EFB usage  

on the

plane.



However, check out this nice post about the same topic, which I thought

might be helpful.  From Richard Eastman, a Sportsman flyer.



=======================================



I have been a long-time user of the Motion Computing Tablet.  I use  

it in my

office ... my car ... and my plane.  There are a number of software  

programs

that use the Motion Computing tool ... both as an OEM solution and  

simply

loading the software onto an independently purchased Motion Computing

platform.



The Motion Computing platform is a superb environment.  My first  

machine is

6 years old at this point and serves as both my back-up AND the file- 

server

that runs my home network.  My current machine is three years old.  I  

run

all the standard Office software on it ... my company's computer  

programs

.. and actually source AOPA's new Internet Flight Planner on it for  

flight

planning via a Sprint wireless card or a local area network when  

available.



I have considered putting the Seattle Avionics' Voyager on my back-up  

for

use in the plane; but the economy has put a bit of a hold on buying new

toys.  I was looking at the Voyager software before Glasair's Alan  

Negrin

moved over there.  It's a good package and Seattle Avionics OEM's it  

on the

Motion Computing platform.



And while I'm pretty impressed with the new Garmin 696, the fact that  

I have

most of the 696 features in the plane's avionics already, I expect  

that I'll

end up putting software on my Motion platform.



I should add that I know that the Motion platform can be read in the

airplane as I've actually gone online using the Sprint card while  

flying to

Apple Valley ... and pulled up the AOPA Flight Planner software en  

route.

It won't be long before we'll all be able to access flight planning  

programs

en route via Internet as that technology continues to evolve;  

particularly

for low-level flying where the GlaStar and Sportsman fly.



 	  Quote: 	
		   From a maintenance standpoint, I've had virtually no problems with the

Motion Computing platform -- and I'd be considered a "power user" by  
	


most

users.  I've dropped both of them a number of times ... or had them  

fall off

of things.  The only things that have ever broken were cosmetic plastic

covers.



// Richard



--

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

Space Cadet

Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Denver

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Preferred tablet

I used a regular old Dell laptop hooked up to a NavAero tPad800 in my Turbo Arrow for several years.  Nice low cost solution.  tPad is small enough to yoke-mount, but had 800x600 resolution. Down-side is the sunlight readability claim is over-rated, you need to keep it in shade (movable sunshades worked fine).  



Never had a problem with the laptop hard drive or software even at altitudes up into the upper teens, or in turbulence.  Turn it on, hook up a couple USB ports, and throw it into the seat-back pocket was all we did.  Although it has a touchscreen, you'd be better served by plugging in a portable trackball and velcroing it someplace convenient.  That would mostly eliminate the concern over control in turbulence.  Great having the laptop along to use on the ground too.  



For software, I was using RMSTek's Flightsoft and Vista.  Low cost, full VFR/IFR geo-referenced (including approach) moving maps, weather, etc.  Worked pretty well, but not as fancy or as feature-rich as Voyager, which I am going to switch to for the RV.  They kept updating the software regularly to improve it, and support was excellent.  



I plan on running a newer laptop into a 10" panel-mounted sun-bright LCD display for the RV.  Now, if I can only figure out a way to output the laptop flight plan data onto the EFIS data stream like the Garmin's do...



Dwight

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