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Audio Jacks

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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:09 am Post subject: Audio Jacks

I've searched all the forums and the web but can't find any clear answers for "the electrically challenged" when it comes to Panel Jacks.

Went to Aircraft Spruce and picked up two headset jacks and two microphone jacks for the back seats (want to get those wires pulled and done). Turns out they come with three circuits or two. I know I need the three circuit for the headsets if I want stereo - left, right, and lo. But why would I want three for a back seat microphone? the schematics I've seen seem to just show two wires - mic and PTT. Would the two be for mic and lo, and the three be for mic, PTT, and lo? Do i need the third one for the voice activated intercom feature?

My limited understanding is that lo is really just a ground that needs to go to the audio panel instead of the airframe power ground.

I've also figured out that shielded-three-core is probably best with the shield grounded somewhere at the audio panel. I did see where Bob Nuckolls hints you can use the shield as lo in his book (although I've already bought the 3 core stuff).

Any extra gems you might wish to pass on would be greatly appreciated.



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:45 am Post subject: Audio Jacks

With few exceptions, you should be buying stereo headset jacks (which have

three posts) instead of two posts (mono jacks).  I don't know why Spruce

only carries the Mono Jacks, because 99% of audio panels going into planes

are stereo, and so are a good share of the intercoms....which is the reason

we completely quit stocking any mono jacks long ago - we only stock stereo

jacks now.



Anyway, Go buy some stereo jacks to begin with (they cost about.30 more than

the mono ones) and that way you can use both mono and stereo headsets.  If

you put the mono jacks in, you may have issues with stereo headsets being

plugged into mono jacks - and a good majority of modern headsets are no

stereo.



The mic jacks have three posts....Ground, Tip and Barrel. (Ground/Low, Mic

Audio and PTT).

The headset jacks (stereo) have three posts.....Ground, Tip and Barrell

(Ground, Left and Right Headphone Audio).



Note, the above are in no particular order, so look at your install manuals

to see how it's wired up.  In your case you need to get the right jacks

before moving forward, then run two sets of three conductor shielded wire to

each seat (one three conductor for the headset and one three conductor for

the mic).



Hope that helps!



Cheers,

Stein



[quote]--

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Audio Jacks

Stein,

Thanks. I know what to do. Just for your info, Aircraft Spruce sells them as: 

Headphone/ Microphone Jack, 3-Circuit JJ-033 ...P/N 11-05995 ..$3.70 Headphone/ Microphone Jack, 2-Circuit JJ-034 ...P/N 11-03907 ..$2.70  



It's basically a buck a circuit. You can get either jack in a 2 or a 3. Being four miles away from A/S makes it easy for me.



On a segue, are you planning to be at Sun 'n fun?



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject: Audio Jacks

The headphone is .250" ...... the mic is .200", so the 

headphone/microphone label confuses me.  One size doesn't fit all!!!

And you want to run separate ground wires instead of using the 

instrument panel as a ground.  Your equipment manual will tell you 

whether you need a ground at the equipment or just at the jack.

Linn



johngoodman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Stein,

 Thanks. I know what to do. Just for your info, Aircraft Spruce sells them as: 

 Headphone/ Microphone Jack, 3-Circuit JJ-033 ...P/N 11-05995 ..$3.70 Headphone/ Microphone Jack, 2-Circuit JJ-034 ...P/N 11-03907 ..$2.70  



 It's basically a buck a circuit. You can get either jack in a 2 or a 3. Being four miles away from A/S makes it easy for me.



 On a segue, are you planning to be at Sun 'n fun?



 John



 --------

 #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way.

 N711JG reserved





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 23590#223590

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: Audio Jacks

Hi John,



I don't think that's the case. I've not seen an 2 circuit mic jack in a

typical GA airplane installation.  Also, the Mic and Headset jacks are not

interchangeable.  The diameter of the jack/plus is different and you can't

interchange them, even if ACS think you can....  It's not an either or kind

of thing because the MIC needs a MIC jack, and those are three circuit jacks

specifically for MIC plugs.  I could be wrong (I often am), but I don't

think it's a case of either being available in either circuitry (although

indeed the Headset Jacks are...if they stock both) - I just don't think the

Mic Jacks are.



You might run over to Spruce and see, but as of late I've been getting a lot

of calls from people with the exact same questions and all of them had the

Mono Headset jacks from Spruce.



We don't have a booth at SnF (too busy), but I may try to get there for a

few days myself and hang out in the TruTrak or AFS booth!



Cheers,

Stein



[quote]--

cloudvalley(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: Audio Jacks

Hello Stein, 

 My wife and I just bought a Garmin 696 for our plane. It has a stereo output jack for music, a 3.5 mm. We were wondering if you know if the KMA24 audio panel is a stereo unit. There are two 3.5 mm input jacks on the panel and don't know if it would be detrimental to the 696 unit if we plugged in the stereo cable to a mono jack, if in fact it is. 

Thanks. 

Brian Preston 

  



---

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Audio Jacks

 	  Quote: 	
		  Headphone/ Microphone Jack, 3-Circuit JJ-033 ...P/N 11-05995 ..$3.70 Headphone/ Microphone Jack, 2-Circuit JJ-034 ...P/N 11-03907 ..$2.70  	




Stein & others,

Spruce's text (which I pasted) is very confusing. What it amounts to is that they offer both in EITHER a 2 or 3. I was confused myself. I've got it figured out, just need to go back and do a swap - easy for me but hard for the uninitiated.

Sorry you won't have a booth, but I'll be looking for you at Sun 'n fun. Unless you shave, it should be pretty easy.....



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: Audio Jacks

John,Also consider adding an entertainment jack (MP3 / DVD - 1/8" Stereo) for the back seats as well as a power plug (Cigarette Plug).  Run all the wires once.Just a suggestion.Jim C(N312F - Flying)Do Not Archive > --> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>> > I've searched all the forums and the web but can't find any clear answers> for "the electrically challenged" when it comes to Panel Jacks.> Went to Aircraft Spruce and picked up two headset jacks and two microphone> jacks for the back seats (want to get those wires pulled and done). Turns> out they come with three circuits or two. I know I need the three circuit> for the headsets if I want stereo - left, right, and lo. But why would I> want three for a back seat microphone? the schematics I've seen seem to> just show two wires - mic and PTT. Would the two be for mic and lo, and> the three be for mic, PTT, and lo? Do i need the third one for the voice> activated intercom feature?> My limited understanding is that lo is really just a ground that needs to> go to the audio panel instead of the airframe power ground.> I've also figured out that shielded-three-core is probably best with the> shield grounded somewhere at the audio panel. I did see where Bob Nuckolls> hints you can use the shield as lo in his book (although I've already> bought the 3 core stuff).> Any extra gems you might wish to pass on would be greatly appreciated.> > John> > --------> #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished> N711JG reserved> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 23575#223575> > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > > >   [quote][b]

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:28 am Post subject: Audio Jacks

Hi  Brian,

  

 First  let me preface my comments by saying I'm not a fan of the KMA "Audio  Panels".  They do work ok, but the don't have an intercom and they aren't  stereo.  Is this for a new installation in your RV-10? If so, I'd strongly  encourage you to just file the KMA and go buy a modern audio panel with a good  intercom in it....it'll save you a lot of hassle down the road.   

  

 That  being said, plugging the stereo cable into a mono jack wouldn't normally be  detrimental (dependin on whether they are physically mono or stereo  jacks).  If they are mono jacks, then you may have to leave the stereo plug  out one "click".  If they are mono jacks it shouldn't be a problem.   Just depends on the installation and how it was put  together...

  

 Sorry  I don't have any more definitive answer, but it's not something that is  black/white unless I know all of the facts.

  

 Cheers,

 Stein

  

 [quote]   --

cloudvalley(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: Audio Jacks

cloudvalley(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:17 am Post subject: Audio Jacks

Hello Stein, (sending this again, as it appeared not to work right the first time) 

Thank you for the answer. We have been using it, and although It works ok, 

I didn't know if using a stereo cable could "hurt" the 696 when plugging

 it into a mono jack. I wish we had a different audio panel, but  

the story is that this in a 79 Grumman Tiger we just bought last May. Before

 that, we owned an RV10 tail kit and completed the empennage in 

a class here in Eugene, Oregon but realized how hard it would be on both of us 

to complete the project, given that I have carpel tunnel and our small farm

 here is not sellling. We may buy an RV-10 that someone has brought closer 

to completion in the future, should our farm sell, because it is such a 

great airplane! 

  

In the meantime we have this affordable Tiger to fly..maybe we shouldn't have 

 put in a 430WAAS, GI-106A and GMX200 that we just had done a few months

 back, before we knew how bad the economy was getting.. Now this Tiger 

is becoming less affordable..at least it's a low-time Tiger. 

  

Thanks Stein. Who knows what the future will hold.. 

  

Brian Preston

 

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  



---

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Audio Jacks

John,



Not sure I saw the answer to your specific question.

The standard mike configuration uses the tip for PTT, and the mike is on the middle or "ring" connection (and both use "ground" for the return). So you cannot use a 2 connector jack, you need the 3 connector one. But for the rear seats you can leave the tip connection open, unless you want them to be able to transmit!. As others noted, this is an unusual jack, 0.230".



To eliminate noise from ground loops, "float" the jacks. Buy pairs of insulating washers, one with a rib which goes into the hole (Stein sells them), and use them to electrically isolate the jack from the frame. Use one of the wires inside your cable to carry the ground back to the audio panel. Connect the shield to ground only at the audio panel, leave it float (cut if off) at the jack end. Do the same for the headphone jacks.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Audio Jacks

Bob,

Your suggestions are exactly what I've done. Wires are soldered and pulled to the "rats nest" under the rudder pedals. The actual panel avionics are still a dream until I do some big buying at Sun 'n fun. Can anybody suggest a way to test my new soldered jacks without any avionics?



My Finish Kit is on it's way via ABF and my upholstery from Abby shipped Friday. Avionics and Engine choices to go.



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: Audio Jacks

Hi John,



Keep in mind that it might be wise to purchase at least the Garmin equipment

before SnF, as their yearly price increases are almost always put into

effect here before too long....



Cheers,

Stein



[quote]--

toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: Audio Jacks

How about a price decrease to match my mutual fund/ 401K/ GE stock/unleaded 

gas/ house/etc.?? Wouldn't they want to move some product? Show special?

-Chris

#40072



---

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Audio Jacks

I don't know about Garmin stuff - I'm not sure I want to go down that road. Everything they have is too pricey and they really treated me like a leper at Oshkosh. The minute I mentioned that a GNS430W was good enough and does it integrate with other brands, he started looking over my shoulder....

It kind of reminds me of Microsoft. Bose is another that seems to think that they only excrete in clean, cellophane bags pre-tied with pretty pink ribbons.



I'll look but I'll view any price increase as an opportunity to go elsewhere.



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: Audio Jacks

Problem is Garmin is sort of the only one that has a decent GPS/NAV/COM that 

intergrates with the AFS EFIS, if you know of better options, I sure am 

interested.

--------------------------------------------------

From: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>

Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 4:41 PM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Audio Jacks



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I don't know about Garmin stuff - I'm not sure I want to go down that 

 road. Everything they have is too pricey and they really treated me like a 

 leper at Oshkosh. The minute I mentioned that a GNS430W was good enough 

 and does it integrate with other brands, he started looking over my 

 shoulder....

 It kind of reminds me of Microsoft. Bose is another that seems to think 

 that they only excrete in clean, cellophane bags pre-tied with pretty pink 

 ribbons.



 I'll look but I'll view any price increase as an opportunity to go 

 elsewhere.



 John



 --------

 #40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit is on it's way.

 N711JG reserved





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 23943#223943

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: Audio Jacks

Don't discount Garmin entirely because of a few bad apples.  The entire

company isn't that way.  After dealing with them for years now, I can

honestly say that they are making a much better effort to work with the

homebuilders.  A number of their people are RV builder who are really great

guys.  They have in the past year created a new department within Garmin to

specialize and focus on LSA's and Homebuilders.  While the OEM guys aren't

used to dealing with homebuilders, and admittedly Customer interaction is

not necessarily some of those guys strong points, there are a number of them

who are super to deal with.  They have started listening, and listening for

real. Take for example the new 240 Audio panel.  They actually designed that

thing 100% around experimental and LSA aircraft.  It's Garmin's FIRST non

TSO'd product that is marketed exclusively to the non-certified world.  On

top of that, they made it affordable and put all the functions in (and left

out others) that WE as homebuilders asked for...period!



Anyway, please don't judge the entire company by their inability to

communicate with you as a homebuilder.  You have to understand they come

from a very different world, and while they are trying, this experimental

stuff is still somewhat new to them....but give them credit because they are

trying.  Aside from that, at the moment there just aren't any good

alternatives.



Me, I like the Garmin guys for many reasons.  I think if you were to work

through a credible dealer you'd find your experience to be quite different.

Garmin does not sell direct to homebuilders, therefore they really count on

their dealers to help them.



In the end I'd just encourage you not to rush to judgement on the entire

company and product line because I can tell you that is not representative

of the whole company.  Here's another example of things I see as a

positive....they don't fly around in corporate jets - they have to fly

themselves around in single engine piston planes just like you and me.  They

have made great leaps over the past year or two with homebuilders and I can

promise you they'll continue...based one what it coming down the pipeline!



Cheers,

Stein



[quote]--

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