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rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.N
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: D-Sub connectors

I think I remember reading that some use an addition to the screws to hold together D-Sub connectors?Is ther additional security that is recommended?Ron Parigoris   [quote][b]

Ivor Phillips

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:30 am Post subject: D-Sub connectors

Hi Ron

The only D sub i decided was critical is the one for the trim tab motor,

After fitting i used a large diameter Shrink tube to fully in case it,

It easy to slice open if needed at a later date,

regards

Ivor

---- rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I think I remember reading that some use an addition to the screws to hold

 together D-Sub connectors?

 

 Is ther additional security that is

 recommended?

 

 Ron Parigoris

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:38 am Post subject: D-Sub connectors

rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I think I remember reading that some use an addition to the screws to 

 hold together D-Sub connectors?



 Is ther additional security that is recommended?



 Ron Parigoris


	


If you're talking about a pair 'in line' that are just used as a splice 

point (wing/fuselage, etc) that you'll rarely or never open, you can 

just twist safety wire through the screw holes.



I'd definitely do *something* to keep 'em closed.



Charlie

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:37 am Post subject: D-Sub connectors

At 08:36 AM 1/10/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>



rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US wrote:

>I think I remember reading that some use an addition to the screws 

>to hold together D-Sub connectors?

>

>Is ther additional security that is recommended?

>

>Ron Parigoris



If you're talking about a pair 'in line' that are just used as a 

splice point (wing/fuselage, etc) that you'll rarely or never open, 

you can just twist safety wire through the screw holes.



I'd definitely do *something* to keep 'em closed.


	


   Intuitively on looks at those little 4-40 jackscrews

   and wonders if they're willing and able to stay put

   under the rigors of an aircraft (or any other vehicle)

   environment.



   As a matter of due diligence to legacy worries, we

   might figure out some way to safety these screws.

   As a matter of practice, I can tell you that they're

   used "barefoot" in a host of applications and I've

   never heard of one coming off.



   There is a certain springiness in the make-up of

   a d-sub jackscrew that prevents a sudden fall-off

   in rotational friction should the screw rotate

   slightly. I don't believe there's a significant

   risk for leaving these guys to their own devices

   for anti-loosening.



   All my new designs for D-Subs onto TC aircraft and

   target vehicles called out Positronic V-series

   slide locks for connector mateup retention.



http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Positronic/V3-VL_Latching.pdf



   The folks on the line REALLY liked these because

   you could mate-demate a D-Sub connector one-handed

   and without a screwdriver. Of course, this retaining

   methodology precluded loosening under vibration

   too.



   One thing you can ALWAYS do with any threaded fastener

   is coat the treads with some low durometer adhesive

   like RTV or E6000 before mating the threads. This

   contaminant in the threads adds considerable friction

   that will prevent a loosened screw from backing right out.

   But not so much retention that you can't open the

   joint for on-purpose reasons at a later time.

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

Sam

Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:09 am Post subject: D-Sub connectors

I had two D-sub shells fall apart on me.  I had purchased these from B&C.



I had used the self-fusing silicone tape at the outlet and this required over tightening the screws to get the two sides to come together.  Days later the plastic, under the screw heads, failed and two connectors fell apart.

 

My fix will be to reduce the number of turns of fusing tape and to be careful not to over tighten (what ever that is) the screws.



Sam



On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> 

 

 At 08:36 AM 1/10/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US (rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US) wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I think I remember reading that some use an addition to the screws to hold together D-Sub connectors?

 

 Is ther additional security that is recommended?

 

 Ron Parigoris

 	
 

 If you're talking about a pair 'in line' that are just used as a splice point (wing/fuselage, etc) that you'll rarely or never open, you can just twist safety wire through the screw holes.

 

 I'd definitely do *something* to keep 'em closed.

 	
 



   Intuitively on looks at those little 4-40 jackscrews

   and wonders if they're willing and able to stay put

   under the rigors of an aircraft (or any other vehicle)

   environment.

 

   As a matter of due diligence to legacy worries, we

   might figure out some way to safety these screws.

   As a matter of practice, I can tell you that they're

   used "barefoot" in a host of applications and I've

   never heard of one coming off.

 

   There is a certain springiness in the make-up of

   a d-sub jackscrew that prevents a sudden fall-off

   in rotational friction should the screw rotate

   slightly. I don't believe there's a significant

   risk for leaving these guys to their own devices

   for anti-loosening.

 

   All my new designs for D-Subs onto TC aircraft and

   target vehicles called out Positronic V-series

   slide locks for connector mateup retention.

 

 http://aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Positronic/V3-VL_Latching.pdf

 

   The folks on the line REALLY liked these because

   you could mate-demate a D-Sub connector one-handed

   and without a screwdriver. Of course, this retaining

   methodology precluded loosening under vibration

   too.

 

   One thing you can ALWAYS do with any threaded fastener

   is coat the treads with some low durometer adhesive

   like RTV or E6000 before mating the threads. This

   contaminant in the threads adds considerable friction

   that will prevent a loosened screw from backing right out.

   But not so much retention that you can't open the

   joint for on-purpose reasons at a later time.

 

 

        Bob . . .

 

        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------



 

 

 

 

 

 

 



[b]

_________________
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com

toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: D-Sub connectors

I have another D-Sub question... are the pin  types with the u shaped cross section for crimping the wire and another  section for crimping the wire ok to use - or is the solid pin type the  norm?

 Thanks

 Chris Lucas

 RV-10

 [quote]   ---

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: D-Sub connectors

Chris, 



the radio shack grade crimp connector pins/sockets are adequate IF

you know exactly how to crimp them, i.e., use the correct wire

with the correct insulation thickness, the right tooling dies for the

wire and insulation, trim the insulation to exact spec, and use a ratchet

cycle tool which has been recently calibrated.



Short of that, some of your crimps will, under use, pull free.

I've been make wire connections for more than 40 years and I can

attest to the above.



The best solution is to use a mil spec crimper (octa-dent) like a Daniels

on machined solid connection pins. These kits can usually found at

SnF or Oshkosh. Just make sure you get the proper positioner/die

for the wire gauge/insulation you are using. Some positioner heads

are adjustable for different wire gauge and insulation thickness



Failing that, you want to continue to use the cheap stamped crimps, I'd 

advise you to solder the wire connection after crimping. Be careful not to 

get solder on the retention springs that hold the pin in its connector frame

_________________
Ira N224XS

bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: D-Sub connectors

If we're talking about mating two D-sub connectors together, I just push 'em together and use a couple of small zip ties through the screw holes to keep them from separating. This after not installing the thumb screws in the hoods or even if I just covered the connectors with heat shrink instead of using hoods.

 

 I suppose that if you're worried about hoods falling off the D-sub (which I've never seen happen), you could replace the screws with zip ties though the screw holes and around the hood.

 

 Pax,

 

 Ed Holyoke

 

 rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US (rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US) wrote: [quote]I think I remember reading that some use an addition to the screws to hold together D-Sub connectors?

   

 Is ther additional security that is recommended?

   

 Ron Parigoris

   

   

    	  Quote: 	
		  



 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

 href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
 [b]

daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:01 am Post subject: D-Sub connectors

Can't small nuts be installed between the two  screws similar to the connectors on the back of a computer to connect the  monitor cable?

  

 Dave Leikam

RV-10 #40496

N89DA  (Reserved)

Muskego, WI



 [quote]   ---

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:50 am Post subject: D-Sub connectors

Can't small nuts be installed between the two screws similar

to the connectors on the back of a computer to connect the monitor cable?



		Yes! Just one more way of holding them together.  All

depends on application and preference!

		

		Roger

		 

		Dave Leikam

		RV-10 #40496

		N89DA (Reserved)

		Muskego, WI

		---

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: D-Sub connectors

At 07:19 PM 1/10/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I have another D-Sub question... are the pin types with the u shaped cross section for crimping the wire and another section for crimping the wire ok to use - or is the solid pin type the norm?

 Thanks

 Chris Lucas

 RV-10 	


    The sheet metal pins are very widely used throughout

    the electronics industry but are tricky to put on with

    consistency using el-cheeso hand-tools. Further, they're

    not the same grade of interconnect as the mil-spec style.

    I quit using the sheet metal pins here years ago

    and I recommend their use.



 

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject: D-Sub connectors

At 12:07 PM 1/10/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I had two D-sub shells fall apart on me.  I had purchased these from B&C.



I had used the self-fusing silicone tape at the outlet and this 

required over tightening the screws to get the two sides to come 

together.  Days later the plastic, under the screw heads, failed and 

two connectors fell apart.



My fix will be to reduce the number of turns of fusing tape and to 

be careful not to over tighten (what ever that is) the screws.


	


   The strain relief wraps of tape should be just snug

   in the backshell opening as you've discovered.

   An exemplar installation is illustrated on page

   2 of this work instruction.



http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9051/9051-700A.pdf



        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: D-Sub connectors

At 12:30 AM 1/11/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  If we're talking about mating two D-sub connectors together, I just 

push 'em together and use a couple of small zip ties through the 

screw holes to keep them from separating. This after not installing 

the thumb screws in the hoods or even if I just covered the 

connectors with heat shrink instead of using hoods.


	


   That works. I've also used a figure-8 wrap of

   safety wire or flat lace to bind the the two

   connectors together in lieu of jackscrews.

 	  Quote: 	
		  I suppose that if you're worried about hoods falling off the D-sub 

(which I've never seen happen), you could replace the screws with 

zip ties though the screw holes and around the hood.


	


   This was a case of over-stressing the hood material

   because the wire-support wrap was too fat.

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

etienne.phillips(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: D-Sub connectors

On 12 Jan 2009, at 4:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 07:19 PM 1/10/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I have another D-Sub question... are the pin types with the u shaped cross section for crimping the wire and another section for crimping the wire ok to use - or is the solid pin type the norm?

 Thanks

 Chris Lucas

 RV-10 	


    The sheet metal pins are very widely used throughout

    the electronics industry but are tricky to put on with

    consistency using el-cheeso hand-tools. Further, they're

    not the same grade of interconnect as the mil-spec style.

    I quit using the sheet metal pins here years ago

    and I recommend their use.



 

        Bob . . .

	


I used the cheap stuff for my wiring project, due to the extra cost and time it would have taken to get hold of the machined pins (living on the dark continent puts access to anything but the cheap stuff on the other side of the planet, on the other side of a very large shipping fee, and on the other side of a very bad exchange rate). They're not critical to the correct operation of my electrical system, so continued to hack my way through. Many broken pins, snapped wires and sockets with stuck pins later, I finished and got everything working. But when time allows, I'm going to redo it all (using the CORRECT equipment and parts), because although it works for now, I don't think it'll last more than a couple of years in the high-vibration environment.



Another frustration I had was once everything was crimped and all the pins were pushed into the sockets, the damned things wouldn't fit together! There is so much play within the support for the female pins, that it allows them to move out of alignment with their male counterparts.

So don't waste your time and effort, do it right first time. The frustration of getting a crimp right using cheap tools and parts alone is enough to cover the outlay for the good stuff!

Etienne

 [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:24 am Post subject: D-Sub connectors

At 11:53 PM 1/11/2009, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  On 12 Jan 2009, at 4:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  At 07:19 PM 1/10/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I have another D-Sub question... are the pin types with the u shaped cross section for crimping the wire and another section for crimping the wire ok to use - or is the solid pin type the norm?

 Thanks

 Chris Lucas

 RV-10 	


    The sheet metal pins are very widely used throughout

    the electronics industry but are tricky to put on with

    consistency using el-cheeso hand-tools. Further, they're

    not the same grade of interconnect as the mil-spec style.

    I quit using the sheet metal pins here years ago

    and I recommend their use.



        Bob . . . 	
I used the cheap stuff for my wiring project, due to the extra cost and time it would have taken to get hold of the machined pins (living on the dark continent puts access to anything but the cheap stuff on the other side of the planet, on the other side of a very large shipping fee, and on the other side of a very bad exchange rate). They're not critical to the correct operation of my electrical system, so continued to hack my way through. Many broken pins, snapped wires and sockets with stuck pins later, I finished and got everything working. But when time allows, I'm going to redo it all (using the CORRECT equipment and parts), because although it works for now, I don't think it'll last more than a couple of years in the high-vibration environment.



 Another frustration I had was once everything was crimped and all the pins were pushed into the sockets, the damned things wouldn't fit together! There is so much play within the support for the female pins, that it allows them to move out of alignment with their male counterparts.



 So don't waste your time and effort, do it right first time. The frustration of getting a crimp right using cheap tools and parts alone is enough to cover the outlay for the good stuff!



 Etienne 	


    What you're describing is a case study in cost of ownership.

    A thought process I've tried to inject into many development

    programs over the years with limited but gratifying success.

    MOST of my contemporaries were not beneficiaries of the

    education one gets when as the ONLY electro-wiennie in the

    building, I tracked a product from conception all the way

    through prototype, meeting requirements milestones, customer

    approval, qualification, procurement, manufacturing, quality

    assurance, shipping, customer service and warranty.



    Without this broad perspective, it's difficult to see how

    the saving of a few dollars now can translate into greater

    expenditures when the end-to-end costs of the product

    are considered.



    Are there no in-country electronics distributors that

    offer low cost tools like:



  http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/4-Quad/rct-3.jpg 



    Surely many fellow citizens could benefit by a

    local business adding this product to their 

    catalog. The machined pins can be breathtakingly

    priced in this country. Allied Electronics prices

    them at 52 cents each in their catalog and they

    drop only to 30 cents or so in 500 lots. My

    distributor will sell me a bag of 5,000 pins for

    about 15 cents each. Your local suppliers could

    offer these pins at pretty attractive prices

    if they shopped around a bit for sources.



 

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: D-Sub connectors

Ditto...we won't use the stamped pins here either and  we go through somewhere between 20,000 and 50,000 pins per month!  There  are a variety of reasons why not to use them, and only a very few that I can  think of to use them (mainly that you can run them through a high speed  automated crimper)...other than that, as long as you have to crimp them by hand,  the machined pins are far easier.

  

 Cheers,

 Stein

 [quote]   --

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: D-Sub connectors

20 to 50k pins a month?..Wow!...

  

 Frank



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  SteinAir, Inc.

Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 7:42  AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE:  D-Sub connectors

 

 Ditto...we won't use the stamped pins here either and  we go through somewhere between 20,000 and 50,000 pins per month!  There  are a variety of reasons why not to use them, and only a very few that I can  think of to use them (mainly that you can run them through a high speed  automated crimper)...other than that, as long as you have to crimp them by hand,  the machined pins are far easier.

  

 Cheers,

 Stein

  	  Quote: 	
		      

	
  [quote][b]

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: Re: D-Sub connectors

One caveat about the machined (not stamped sheet metal) pins

is that they are not interchangeable!  Some submini D connector

contacts will not fir the shell of other manufacturers.  Also, different

connectors pins for different wire size, i.e., 22 ga vs. 18ga.

At least for the larger circular connector series from AMP or Amphenol,

the pins are color coded with tiny bands.  Of course the companies

don't make it easy to discover the color code meanings! I've never

seen a collated chart, even from a single manufacturer.  If any has

such a chart, I would love to see it.

_________________
Ira N224XS

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: D-Sub connectors

At 10:39 AM 1/12/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rampil" <ira.rampil(at)gmail.com>



 One caveat about the machined (not stamped sheet metal) pins

 is that they are not interchangeable!  Some submini D connector

 contacts will not fir the shell of other manufacturers.  Also, different

 connectors pins for different wire size, i.e., 22 ga vs. 18ga.

 At least for the larger circular connector series from AMP or Amphenol,

 the pins are color coded with tiny bands.  Of course the companies

 don't make it easy to discover the color code meanings! I've never

 seen a collated chart, even from a single manufacturer.  If any has

 such a chart, I would love to see it. 	


   It's not a big secret. Most pins offered for military

   spec'ed connectors are in the Mil-C-39029 family of devices.

   In particular, the 20AWG standard density d-sub pins are

   39029/64-369. See:



  http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/D-Sub_20AWG_Pin.jpg 



   similarly, sockets are 39029/63-368



  http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/D-Subminature/D-Sub_20AWG_Socket.jpg

 

   Note that in both cases, the color banding on the

   pin barrel uses the legacy electronic components color

   code convention shown below.



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



   In the case of the d-sub pins, the color bands

   denote the last digits after the dash in the

   full part number.



   I'm aware of no cross-reference list that will

   let you back into the application of some stray

   pin. However, if you go to a particular connector's

   specifications, the pins for each hole along with

   the wire-gage range for that pin will be defined.



   I'm aware of no ambiguity in 20 or 22AWG d-sub

   pins for marking or application. If you have a

   pin that doesn't fit the hole in a D-sub of

   one brand, then it's not a d-sub pin for any

   brand.



 

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

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rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: Re: D-Sub connectors

See,



That's why we post here Bob, you knew that the the color bands

index to the mil-spec part, whereas when I order from Arrow or 

Jameco, or Newark, I only paid attention to the Amp catalog numbers

and the tooling / App sheets.  I never noticed that the MilSpec

nomenclature was even in the docs I have!



Bravo.



ijr

_________________
Ira N224XS

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