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lgold(at)quantum-associat
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 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 |
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I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duel
ignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing.
However, given the ease of use and (limited) security feature, I chose to
use such a switch.
Now I am being told that it is a particularly bad idea to use this type of
ignition switch on a Rotax 912 engine because a lot more current passes
through the switch with a Rotax 912 than with a Continental or Lycoming. I
was also told that this current far exceeds the current that these switches
were designed for.
Does anyone know if this information is true? I don't want to have to lie
upside down under may panel for a few hours pulling out the darn switch if
this is just an old wife's tale.
Les
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 |
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The Rotax installation manual for the 912 series lists these voltage and
current ratings for the "mag" switches (Edition 1, rev 0, page 112, May
2007)
- switching voltage: min. 250 V
- switching current: min. 0.5 A
I don't know how it compares to the grounding of a conventional mag.
-- Craig
--
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hgmckay
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 397
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 |
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Les: I don't know how you have wired your 912, but I can tell you that I use a regular keyed ignition switch to start my 912. The switch has three positions, On, Start, Off, and Acc. It is an ordinary ignition switch. The full starting current does not go through the switch. The starting position on the switch pulls in the starter relay coil which connects the + 12V side of the battery to the starter itself.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> wrote:
From: Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>
Subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 7:21 PM
<lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>
I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duel
ignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 |
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The original DHC-2 only had two toggle switches for the mags... no keys
except maybe the doors and I never saw them being used. However there was
usually a switch right on the battery terminal that cut all power except to
the clock. BTW ever crank over one of those old radials?? You had to get
the flywheel running, with a crank, very fast then jump in and engage the
start clutch.... A good workout.
Noel
--
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 |
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Hugh,
I wired my aircraft according to Robert Nuckolls Aeroelectric company’s Rotax 912/914 wiring diagram Z16, except I used an ignition key. I know that the staring current never goes through the keyed switch. My concern is the current going through when the ignition is shorted out to turn the engine off.
Craig Payne answered the question better by telling me how much current and voltage goes through the mag shut off (250V & .5A “minimum”). But I think I need to know the maximum rather than minimum amount. and then call the keyed/switch manufacturer to see what he says.
Les
Les
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh MCKAY III
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:06 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912
Les: I don't know how you have wired your 912, but I can tell you that I use a regular keyed ignition switch to start my 912. The switch has three positions, On, Start, Off, and Acc. It is an ordinary ignition switch. The full starting current does not go through the switch. The starting position on the switch pulls in the starter relay coil which connects the + 12V side of the battery to the starter itself.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>
Subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 7:21 PM | Quote: | | --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Les Goldner"<lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duelignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing.However, given the ease of use and (limited) security feature, I chose touse such a switch.Now I am being told that it is a particularly bad idea to use this type ofignition switch on a Rotax 912 engine because a lot more current passesthrough the switch with a Rotax 912 than with a Continental or Lycoming. I<lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> |
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[quote][b]
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 |
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Sorry, those are the minimum ratings for the *switches*. Section 17.3.4 is titled “Ignition switches”. So you can treat them as the *maximum* (at least approximately) found in the circuit.
I have an uninstalled ACS A-510-2 OFF-LEFT-RIGHT-BOTH-START switch and its datasheet. But the datasheet doesn’t give any current ratings. On the other hand looking at the construction of the switch the same style contacts are used for the circuits for the master and starter contactors and the two mag circuits. To my eye it does not seem likely that the Rotax pseudo-mag circuit would “far exceed” the capacity of the ASC switch. If it were my plane I wouldn’t worry. I’m using separate toggle switches on my (unflown) 701/912 combo but only so I have the option of cranking with both mags off.
I would do two things: ask Spruce if they have any ratings and post your question on the Matronics AeroElectric forum. Robert Nuckolls hangs out there and may have more information. To my mind the final bit of missing information is how much current flows and at what voltage when grounding the P-lead of a conventional mag. Because that is what the ACS switch was designed to do.
-- Craig
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:25 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912
Hugh,
I wired my aircraft according to Robert Nuckolls Aeroelectric company’s Rotax 912/914 wiring diagram Z16, except I used an ignition key. I know that the staring current never goes through the keyed switch. My concern is the current going through when the ignition is shorted out to turn the engine off.
Craig Payne answered the question better by telling me how much current and voltage goes through the mag shut off (250V & .5A “minimum”). But I think I need to know the maximum rather than minimum amount. and then call the keyed/switch manufacturer to see what he says.
Les
Les
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh MCKAY III
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:06 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912
Les: I don't know how you have wired your 912, but I can tell you that I use a regular keyed ignition switch to start my 912. The switch has three positions, On, Start, Off, and Acc. It is an ordinary ignition switch. The full starting current does not go through the switch. The starting position on the switch pulls in the starter relay coil which connects the + 12V side of the battery to the starter itself.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>
Subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 7:21 PM | Quote: | | --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Les Goldner"<lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duelignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing.However, given the ease of use and (limited) security feature, I chose touse such a switch.Now I am being told that it is a particularly bad idea to use this type ofignition switch on a Rotax 912 engine because a lot more current passesthrough the switch with a Rotax 912 than with a Continental or Lycoming. I<lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> |
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| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 |
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Current and voltage will peak at full power and full rpm... I only turn off my ignition when the engine is idling and both voltage and current are at a minimum. If you install separate mag switches and use them to shut down then there will never be any voltage or current pass through your switch.
Noel
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Goldner
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:55 AM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912
Hugh,
I wired my aircraft according to Robert Nuckolls Aeroelectric company’s Rotax 912/914 wiring diagram Z16, except I used an ignition key. I know that the staring current never goes through the keyed switch. My concern is the current going through when the ignition is shorted out to turn the engine off.
Craig Payne answered the question better by telling me how much current and voltage goes through the mag shut off (250V & .5A “minimum”). But I think I need to know the maximum rather than minimum amount. and then call the keyed/switch manufacturer to see what he says.
Les
Les
From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hugh MCKAY III
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:06 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912
Les: I don't know how you have wired your 912, but I can tell you that I use a regular keyed ignition switch to start my 912. The switch has three positions, On, Start, Off, and Acc. It is an ordinary ignition switch. The full starting current does not go through the switch. The starting position on the switch pulls in the starter relay coil which connects the + 12V side of the battery to the starter itself.
Hugh McKay
Allegro 2000
Rotax 912UL
--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>
Subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 7:21 PM | Quote: | | --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Les Goldner"<lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> I know it is not the best idea to use an off the shelf inexpensive duelignition switch with a key because of the possibility of the switch failing.However, given the ease of use and (limited) security feature, I chose touse such a switch.Now I am being told that it is a particularly bad idea to use this type ofignition switch on a Rotax 912 engine because a lot more current passesthrough the switch with a Rotax 912 than with a Continental or Lycoming. I<lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> |
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[quote][b]
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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rampil
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 |
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I don't know what happened to my previous reply to the question, but
I can reiterate that there is nothing different about the voltage or current
in the Rotax ground-to-kill circuits when compared to Lycosauruses.
My Bendix branded ignition switch from Spruce has been working perfectly
for 5 years on my 912uls.
Les, my best advise to you is to completely ignore people who have no
direct hands on experience and training in Rotax 4 stroke engines. The
best place to get information is directly from your dealer, or from one
of the Rotax-trained A&Ps who hang out here.
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lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject: Using a key Ignition switch with a Rotax 912 |
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Thanks for the advice Ira
Les
--
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