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dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
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 Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Hi!
I´d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear is in correct position.
with this configuration, could be dangerous to land?
Photos attached.
Tks
Francisco Drovetta
Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200
São Paulo, SP
Brazil
www.dcubj3.com.br
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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Hi C That Kitfox looks like the Model IV-1050. Is that correct C and how much does it weigh?
Clint
From: dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Landing gear in correct position???
Date: Sat C 17 Jan 2009 21:15:48 -0200
Hi!
I´d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear is in correct position.
with this configuration C could be dangerous to land?
Photos attached.
Tks
Francisco Drovetta
Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200
São Paulo C SP
Brazil
www.dcubj3.com.br
[quote][b]
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dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Mr. Clint
Empty Weight: 882 lb.
Tks
Francisco Drovetta
Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200
São Paulo, SP
Brazil
www.dcubj3.com.br
[quote] ---
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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WOW, it looks too far rearward to me. Have you weighed it yet? Have
you flown it yet? With an O-200 in there it looks to me like it would
be WAY heavy on the main wheels, but somebody with more O-200
experience could help more than me, but I'm pretty sure it's too far
to the rear. You are using the 2nd and 3rd float brackets, and it
looks like the 1st brackets are gone. That may have something to do
with the "Brazilian Version" but it looks strange to me. It almost
looks like the Grove gear was installed with the idea that it was
going to be a nose-gear plane.
I would have to say, yes, it looks dangerous to land. How hard is it
to lift the tailwheel by hand?
VERY nice-looking plane otherwise...beautiful!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 17, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Francisco Drovetta wrote:
| Quote: | Hi!
I´d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear
is in correct position.
with this configuration, could be dangerous to land?
Photos attached.
Tks
Francisco Drovetta
Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200
São Paulo, SP
Brazil
www.dcubj3.com.br
<Cópia (2) de Cópia de DSC06741.JPG>
<Cópia (3) de Cópia de DSC06738.JPG>
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Lookint at the picture again C must be a Series 5. Single brace to Horiz stab. Clint From: dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Landing gear in correct position???
Date: Sat C 17 Jan 2009 22:44:14 -0200
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Mr. Clint
Empty Weight: 882 lb.
Tks
Francisco Drovetta
Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200
São Paulo C SP
Brazil
www.dcubj3.com.br
[quote] ---
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Really? I thought if might be even earlier than a IV because of the
short fin and rudder....looks short to me, anyway. Maybe the reg
number of -KFV is a clue...Kit Fox V?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 17, 2009, at 8:01 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:
[quote] Lookint at the picture again, must be a Series 5. Single brace to
Horiz stab. ClintFrom: dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Landing gear in correct position???
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:44:14 -0200
Mr. Clint
Empty Weight: 882 lb.
Tks
Francisco Drovetta
Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200
São Paulo, SP
Brazil
www.dcubj3.com.br
---
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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| Quote: | I�d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear is in correct position.
with this configuration, could be dangerous to land?
Photos attached.
Tks
Francisco Drovetta |
Francisco, It is difficult to tell from the picture. It looks like the main wheels would be several inches behind the wing leading edge if the plane was leveled for weighing? It also appears the nose is longer than a stock model 4.
What is the measurement from wing leading edge to the prop?
If you could also tell us the weights and arms you recorded for weight and balance it would give someone something to compare too.
As is it looks to be easy to nose over if brakes are used very hard.
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Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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Jimz
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Francisco
On my series 5 the distance from the back of the gear leg to the center of the strut attachment bracket hole is 29 1/4 inches. I hope this is useful.
Jim series 5 0-200 under const.
Lake Elmo MN 21D
[quote] ---
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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On my IV, the distance from the center of the strut attachment hole
to the leading edge of the Grove gear is 30 inches. The Grove gear
attachment brackets on the Model IV utilize the front two pairs of
float brackets on each side....the rear two pair are not used for
landing gear on my plane. It looks like Francisco's gear is mounted
too far back, but that's just my opinion.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 17, 2009, at 11:52 PM, Zimmermans wrote:
[quote] Francisco
On my series 5 the distance from the back of the gear leg to the
center of the strut attachment bracket hole is 29 1/4 inches. I
hope this is useful.
Jim series 5 0-200 under const.
Lake Elmo MN 21D
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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| Quote: | From what I can see of Francisco's airplane (very nice, might I add), it
appears to have some features of a model 5. Take a close look at the
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horizontal stab. Not only will you see the single strut, but you'll see
where the front edge of the horizontal stab has the slots in the cover for
the stab workings so the horizontal stab leading edge can move up and down
with the trim which is typical of a 5. The vertical stab looks a bit small
for a 5, but that may be an illusion. The doors don't appear to be
typical of a 5, but more of a 4, but difficult to tell in the photos. If it
is a model 5, then it would also have had the grove gear mount attach points
welded in to the fuselage near the leading edge of the seat. At least
that's how mine came from the factory. Something is definitely puzzling
about it and yes, the gear does appear to be too far back, but again, maybe
just an illusion.
Pretty much all in life is but an illusion. Everything is just what people
tell you it is.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
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dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:40 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Tks a lot Mr. Tom
I will send you this information to know to compare.
FD
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dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Tks a lot Mr. Lynn.
Very useful information.
To lift tailwheel by hand is not hard, but the plane is balanced.
FD
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Francisco's kitfox is scratch built. Check his web site link under his signature on the first post for some detailed information. Here's the direct link to the Kitfox 4 section in case you can't read the language.
http://www.dcubj3.com.br/v1/Galeria/01Fuselagem/index.htm
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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Thanks, Tom. That answers a lot of questions.
Deke
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Deke-
I find it hard to be an illusion when the shot is straight onto the
side of the plane...unless it's been altered (Photoshop is funny
stuff). What we have to remember is that the plane is admittedly a
"Brazilian version" by his own admission.
I just looked at my plane's profile and it is nothing like
Francisco's in the area of the tail.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 18, 2009, at 11:10 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
[quote]
<fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>
> From what I can see of Francisco's airplane (very nice, might I
> add), it
appears to have some features of a model 5. Take a close look at
the horizontal stab. Not only will you see the single strut, but
you'll see where the front edge of the horizontal stab has the
slots in the cover for the stab workings so the horizontal stab
leading edge can move up and down with the trim which is typical of
a 5. The vertical stab looks a bit small for a 5, but that may be
an illusion. The doors don't appear to be typical of a 5, but
more of a 4, but difficult to tell in the photos. If it is a model
5, then it would also have had the grove gear mount attach points
welded in to the fuselage near the leading edge of the seat. At
least that's how mine came from the factory. Something is
definitely puzzling about it and yes, the gear does appear to be
too far back, but again, maybe just an illusion.
Pretty much all in life is but an illusion. Everything is just
what people tell you it is.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
---
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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I had a look at all the pictures Fancisco had on the website... Boy was I
impressed! With the space, the cleanliness and the manner in which
everything was done. I'll bet they have built more than the one plane
there.
Noel
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Francisco,
Knowing that is not a Kitfox… and therefore do not know what exceptions you have accounted for. That is not the correct position for the gear on the Kitfox current or previous models.
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Drovetta
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:16 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Landing gear in correct position???
Hi!
I´d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear is in correct position.
with this configuration, could be dangerous to land?
Photos attached.
Tks
Francisco Drovetta
Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200
São Paulo, SP
Brazil
www.dcubj3.com.br
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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At 03:15 PM 1/17/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | I´d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear is in correct position.
with this configuration, could be dangerous to land? |
Francisco,
Sad to say it does appear that your landing gear are further aft than is typical with Grove gear. However, the only thing that matters are the numbers. My plane has its axle 1.875" (48mm) behind the leading edge when in the measurement configuration, which means the lower door sill / fuselage bottom is horizontal, and the plane is "empty". When in that configuration, 7.3% of the weight is on the tail wheel. (The tail wheel is 163" (4140mm) behind the leading edge.) Also in that configuration my CG is 13.68" (347mm) behind the leading edge. Let us know how that compares to yours.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. [quote][b]
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Agreed, Lynn. I had to take several "second looks" as things just didn't
seem right. Hopefully his weight and balance is OK. If not, I'd be afraid
go put the breaks on during landing. Sure is a nice looking airplane
though.
Deke
Snowing in NE MI
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position??? |
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Look again at the transition from the top of fuselage where it curves
up to the (larger IV) fin...the radius is smaller, and the fin is
shorter, than my IV.
Of course, it's already been established that it's not your normal
Stateside Kitfox IV, so I guess we're just rehashing old
stuff....wanna talk about tailwheels? : )
Yeah, I'm with you Deke, I wouldn't want to fly it until I was
absolutely certain it was within the spec'd weight and balance, and
just from the looks, I'd doubt it, unless there's a TON in the tail.
You've got a long moment in front of the mains, therefore a shorter
moment (it would seem) to the tail, so I don't see how it could be
within specs.
Good weather here, skis back on, oil changed, waiting for clear
weather for the Oshkosh trip.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 18, 2009, at 2:42 PM, D. Morisse wrote:
[quote]
<fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>
Agreed, Lynn. I had to take several "second looks" as things just
didn't
seem right. Hopefully his weight and balance is OK. If not, I'd
be afraid
go put the breaks on during landing. Sure is a nice looking airplane
though.
Deke
Snowing in NE MI
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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