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Door ajar indictors

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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: Door ajar indictors

I opened my Van's door warning kit today and began reading the directions.



What am I missing in the understanding of this system? Are we removing the 5/16 threaded bolts which we spend time shaping the ends to a point and then tapping the inside of the aluminum rod to receive the theads of these bolts C only to replace them with a one inch long rare earth magnet and five minute epoxy?????

There seems to be two issue that are confusing me. 

1) I made sure that the bolt length that I made penetrated atleast 1/4 past the aluminum/fuse jamm when the door was closed and was also long enough the it was still inside the portion of the aluminum pin that was housed by the nylon block which is screwed to the door. I didn't want the pin bending in the gap between the fuse jam and the nylon door block.

Now C am I asked to discard this bolt pin and replace it with a one inch long cylindrical magnet?? Aren't we weakening the mechanism just for the safety of seeing a light go out??

2) Why are we using this complicated method with magnets C fore and aft when we one switch could be thrown by the pin physically pushing the switch closed/open and thus turning the light out or on?

I made the inner portion of my cabin top flange fit so well that a business card cannot fit between the door and itself C so if the foreward pin is closed the rear one is obviously closed by just looking at he inner door fit.

So with the relay or circuit that Stein has placed in my system C can I just place a simple switch with is pushed closed by the pin or should I just not hook power to the door system and since the light will always be out C assume it is fine to fly?

What happened to the priciple of  KISS? Not C PISSED.

Two steps forward C 1 and 3/4 steps back

JOhn G.

  [quote][b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: Door ajar indictors

John, I just couldn't go with the rack and pinion door latch and it's 

resulting possible problems.  The next time you get next to a Cirrus, 

look at it's door hardware.  It looks like a trunk latch from a small 

car.  My problem is I don't know which small car!  I have a good friend 

with a Cirrus that's trying to find me some info.  If anyone out there 

can shed some light on the Cirrus latch I'd be really grateful!!

Linn  .... Waiting for that small car to show up!



John Gonzalez wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I opened my Van's door warning kit today and began reading the 

 directions.



 What am I missing in the understanding of this system? Are we removing 

 the 5/16 threaded bolts which we spend time shaping the ends to a 

 point and then tapping the inside of the aluminum rod to receive the 

 theads of these bolts, only to replace them with a one inch long rare 

 earth magnet and five minute epoxy?????



 There seems to be two issue that are confusing me. 



 1) I made sure that the bolt length that I made penetrated atleast 1/4 

 past the aluminum/fuse jamm when the door was closed and was also long 

 enough the it was still inside the portion of the aluminum pin that 

 was housed by the nylon block which is screwed to the door. I didn't 

 want the pin bending in the gap between the fuse jam and the nylon 

 door block.



 Now, am I asked to discard this bolt pin and replace it with a one 

 inch long cylindrical magnet?? Aren't we weakening the mechanism just 

 for the safety of seeing a light go out??



 2) Why are we using this complicated method with magnets, fore and aft 

 when we one switch could be thrown by the pin physically pushing the 

 switch closed/open and thus turning the light out or on?



 I made the inner portion of my cabin top flange fit so well that a 

 business card cannot fit between the door and itself, so if the 

 foreward pin is closed the rear one is obviously closed by just 

 looking at he inner door fit.



 So with the relay or circuit that Stein has placed in my system, can I 

 just place a simple switch with is pushed closed by the pin or should 

 I just not hook power to the door system and since the light will 

 always be out, assume it is fine to fly?



 What happened to the priciple of  KISS? Not, PISSED.



 Two steps forward, 1 and 3/4 steps back



 JOhn G.

 *

 *

sfdarton(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: Door ajar indictors

Our flight department has a one year old Cirrus Turbo

G3. It is a nice enough aircraft but in my opinion the

door latch mechanism is the weakest design point of

the aircraft.



Steve 50212

--- linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>

 

 John, I just couldn't go with the rack and pinion

 door latch and it's 

 resulting possible problems.  The next time you get

 next to a Cirrus, 

 look at it's door hardware.  It looks like a trunk

 latch from a small 

 car.  My problem is I don't know which small car!  I

 have a good friend 

 with a Cirrus that's trying to find me some info. 

 If anyone out there 

 can shed some light on the Cirrus latch I'd be

 really grateful!!

 Linn  .... Waiting for that small car to show up!

 

 John Gonzalez wrote:

 > I opened my Van's door warning kit today and began

 reading the 

 > directions.

 >

 > What am I missing in the understanding of this

 system? Are we removing 

 > the 5/16 threaded bolts which we spend time

 shaping the ends to a 

 > point and then tapping the inside of the aluminum

 rod to receive the 

 > theads of these bolts, only to replace them with a

 one inch long rare 

 > earth magnet and five minute epoxy?????

 >

 > There seems to be two issue that are confusing me.

 

 >

 > 1) I made sure that the bolt length that I made

 penetrated atleast 1/4 

 > past the aluminum/fuse jamm when the door was

 closed and was also long 

 > enough the it was still inside the portion of the

 aluminum pin that 

 > was housed by the nylon block which is screwed to

 the door. I didn't 

 > want the pin bending in the gap between the fuse

 jam and the nylon 

 > door block.

 >

 > Now, am I asked to discard this bolt pin and

 replace it with a one 

 > inch long cylindrical magnet?? Aren't we weakening

 the mechanism just 

 > for the safety of seeing a light go out??

 >

 > 2) Why are we using this complicated method with

 magnets, fore and aft 

 > when we one switch could be thrown by the pin

 physically pushing the 

 > switch closed/open and thus turning the light out

 or on?

 >

 > I made the inner portion of my cabin top flange

 fit so well that a 

 > business card cannot fit between the door and

 itself, so if the 

 > foreward pin is closed the rear one is obviously

 closed by just 

 > looking at he inner door fit.

 >

 > So with the relay or circuit that Stein has placed

 in my system, can I 

 > just place a simple switch with is pushed closed

 by the pin or should 

 > I just not hook power to the door system and since

 the light will 

 > always be out, assume it is fine to fly?

 >

 > What happened to the priciple of  KISS? Not,

 PISSED.

 >

 > Two steps forward, 1 and 3/4 steps back

 >

 > JOhn G.

 > *

 >

 >

 > *

 

 



 browse

 Un/Subscription,

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List



 Forums!



 Admin.

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: Door ajar indictors

No surprise...the forward hinged door presents its own issues...I just finished to final fit of my doors today and have total faith in the mechanism...I imagine Deems does too, it's all in how well you make everything fit..but I will say I have an easy 100+ hours in fitting and the.       linkage/ locks



Rick Sked

40185

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



--

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:02 pm Post subject: Door ajar indictors

I used the rivethead blocks and pins….but had built mine IAW the plans first.  

     IAW the plans, the bolt/pin is      used to mark the frame, but is then discarded.  The end result is the      angled piece of rod that is used to “pull” the door closed as      the pin goes through the frame.  
The magnet is placed, along      with the switch, in a position such that when the pin goes through the      frame the switch is activated, but when the pin goes on the outside of the      airplane it is not activated.  The problem they are trying to address      is when the door is closed the front pin engages but the back pin would      pass outside the aircraft skin.  If not carefully inspected the pilot      would think the door is completely closed but upon takeoff, the air loads will      open the door…..and off it goes.  
Why so complicated…………..fail      safe?  If you want the red like to always be on unless the door is      open.  There are other ways of wiring the switches.  Some people      are just using green lights showing the door is closed……..    

     

Rene'  

801-721-6080  

  

   

--

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: Door ajar indictors

Darton Steve wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Our flight department has a one year old Cirrus Turbo

 G3. It is a nice enough aircraft but in my opinion the

 door latch mechanism is the weakest design point of

 the aircraft.



 Steve 50212

Steve, would you elaborate?  I had my first flight in my friends Cirrus 
	


today ..... well, yesterday   ..... and found it to be rather solid 

..  and this newbie didn't have any problem closing and latching it on 

the first try.  I did find it much easier to close the door and then 

move the seat forward.  The only downside I saw was that when you open 

the door, you really had to push the button real hard.

Linn

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:01 am Post subject: Door ajar indictors

As was mentioned, the critical part is to have both the front and rear pins engaged, and fully so.  That's why they have the magnets.  I suppose you could use a physical switch that is pushed when the pin reaches its full engagement point, but IMHO that would take a lot more work than the magnets.  Many EFIS systems now have a system for reading contacts either open or closed, so you can use a Dynon, AFS, Vertical Power and I'm sure a number of others to give you two greens for doors fully closed if you don't want to use the actual lights.  My main problem with the system is that the door latching system, under the loads it experiences while flying, can unlock with a simple bump if the locking pin is not fully engaged in the nylon block (don't ask me how I know).  I'm sure that some saw at OSH the leather straps I have added to N256H that run from the gear leg bracket by the pilot's feet and loop over the door handle.  With a system like this, you truly have double security, so if the latch fails, is not fully latched or comes unlatched in flight, the door cannot open and separate.  It may pop open an inch or two, which is enough to make sure that you never takeoff without the door fully latched and locked in the future, but it will not come all the way open and separate from the aircraft.



do not archive



 Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



 



On Jan 18, 2009, at 9:51 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I opened my Van's door warning kit today and began reading the directions.



What am I missing in the understanding of this system? Are we removing the 5/16 threaded bolts which we spend time shaping the ends to a point and then tapping the inside of the aluminum rod to receive the theads of these bolts, only to replace them with a one inch long rare earth magnet and five minute epoxy?????

There seems to be two issue that are confusing me. 

1) I made sure that the bolt length that I made penetrated atleast 1/4 past the aluminum/fuse jamm when the door was closed and was also long enough the it was still inside the portion of the aluminum pin that was housed by the nylon block which is screwed to the door. I didn't want the pin bending in the gap between the fuse jam and the nylon door block.

Now, am I asked to discard this bolt pin and replace it with a one inch long cylindrical magnet?? Aren't we weakening the mechanism just for the safety of seeing a light go out??

2) Why are we using this complicated method with magnets, fore and aft when we one switch could be thrown by the pin physically pushing the switch closed/open and thus turning the light out or on?

I made the inner portion of my cabin top flange fit so well that a business card cannot fit between the door and itself, so if the foreward pin is closed the rear one is obviously closed by just looking at he inner door fit.

So with the relay or circuit that Stein has placed in my system, can I just place a simple switch with is pushed closed by the pin or should I just not hook power to the door system and since the light will always be out, assume it is fine to fly?

What happened to the priciple of  KISS? Not, PISSED.

Two steps forward, 1 and 3/4 steps back

JOhn G.

 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


 [quote][b]

mckervey(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:50 am Post subject: Door ajar indictors

---

mckervey(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:58 am Post subject: Door ajar indictors

Linn,



I have an RV10 with over 200 hours on it with both the lights and an open 

door warning on the Advanced 2500. The Advanced operates either normally 

open or normally closed. I used a single pole double throw momentary push 

button switch in the rear pin.



Joe

---

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:18 am Post subject: Door ajar indictors

"My main problem with the system is that the door latching system C under the loads it experiences while flying C can unlock with a simple bump if the locking pin is not fully engaged in the nylon block (don't ask me how I know)." JS

 

The main problem is that the pins need to extend atleast 1/4 into and beyond the aluminum fuse jamm C not just the nylon block. If just the nylon block C one is asking for trouble.

 

JOhn G.



From: jesse(at)saintaviation.comTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: RV10-List: Door ajar indictorsDate: Mon C 19 Jan 2009 05:56:53 -0500As was mentioned C the critical part is to have both the front and rear pins engaged C and fully so.  That's why they have the magnets.  I suppose you could use a physical switch that is pushed when the pin reaches its full engagement point C but IMHO that would take a lot more work than the magnets.  Many EFIS systems now have a system for reading contacts either open or closed C so you can use a Dynon C AFS C Vertical Power and I'm sure a number of others to give you two greens for doors fully closed if you don't want to use the actual lights.  My main problem with the system is that the door latching system C under the loads it experiences while flying C can unlock with a simple bump if the locking pin is not fully engaged in the nylon block (don't ask me how I know).  I'm sure that some saw at OSH the leather straps I have added to N256H that run from the gear leg bracket by the pilot's feet and loop over the door handle.  With a system like this C you truly have double security C so if the latch fails C is not fully latched or comes unlatched in flight C the door cannot open and separate.  It may pop open an inch or two C which is enough to make sure that you never takeoff without the door fully latched and locked in the future C but it will not come all the way open and separate from the aircraft.



do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation C Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



On Jan 18 C 2009 C at 9:51 PM C John Gonzalez wrote:



I opened my Van's door warning kit today and began reading the directions.



What am I missing in the understanding of this system? Are we removing the 5/16 threaded bolts which we spend time shaping the ends to a point and then tapping the inside of the aluminum rod to receive the theads of these bolts C only to replace them with a one inch long rare earth magnet and five minute epoxy?????



There seems to be two issue that are confusing me. 



1) I made sure that the bolt length that I made penetrated atleast 1/4 past the aluminum/fuse jamm when the door was closed and was also long enough the it was still inside the portion of the aluminum pin that was housed by the nylon block which is screwed to the door. I didn't want the pin bending in the gap between the fuse jam and the nylon door block.



Now C am I asked to discard this bolt pin and replace it with a one inch long cylindrical magnet?? Aren't we weakening the mechanism just for the safety of seeing a light go out??



2) Why are we using this complicated method with magnets C fore and aft when we one switch could be thrown by the pin physically pushing the switch closed/open and thus turning the light out or on?



I made the inner portion of my cabin top flange fit so well that a business card cannot fit between the door and itself C so if the foreward pin is closed the rear one is obviously closed by just looking at he inner door fit

pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:38 am Post subject: Door ajar indictors

Agree!, that is why many of us are getting the aftermarket  riverhead and iflyrv10 pins and blocks. Solid and more smooth  closing.

  

  



  From: John Gonzalez (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com) 

 Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 7:15 AM

 To: RV 10 group (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: Door ajar indictors

 



 

 

"My main problem with the system is that the  door latching system, under the loads it experiences while flying, can unlock  with a simple bump if the locking pin is not fully engaged in the nylon block  (don't ask me how I know)." JS

 

The main problem is that the pins  need to extend atleast 1/4 into and beyond the aluminum fuse jamm, not just the  nylon block. If just the nylon block, one is asking for  trouble.

 

JOhn G.

  

From: jesse(at)saintaviation.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re:  Door ajar indictors

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:56:53  -0500



As was mentioned, the critical part is to have both the front and  rear pins engaged, and fully so.  That's why they have the magnets.  I  suppose you could use a physical switch that is pushed when the pin reaches its  full engagement point, but IMHO that would take a lot more work than the  magnets.  Many EFIS systems now have a system for reading contacts either  open or closed, so you can use a Dynon, AFS, Vertical Power and I'm sure a  number of others to give you two greens for doors fully closed if you don't want  to use the actual lights.  My main problem with the system is that the door  latching system, under the loads it experiences while flying, can unlock with a  simple bump if the locking pin is not fully engaged in the nylon block (don't  ask me how I know).  I'm sure that some saw at OSH the leather straps I  have added to N256H that run from the gear leg bracket by the pilot's feet and  loop over the door handle.  With a system like this, you truly have double  security, so if the latch fails, is not fully latched or comes unlatched in  flight, the door cannot open and separate.  It may pop open an inch or two,  which is enough to make sure that you never takeoff without the door fully  latched and locked in the future, but it will not come all the way open and  separate from the aircraft.

 



 do not archive

 

   Jesse Saint

 Saint Aviation, Inc.

 jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

 Cell: 352-427-0285

 Fax: 815-377-3694



  On Jan 18, 2009, at 9:51 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:

 [quote]   I opened    my Van's door warning kit today and began reading the directions.    



   What am I missing in the understanding of this system? Are we removing    the 5/16 threaded bolts which we spend time shaping the ends to a point and    then tapping the inside of the aluminum rod to receive the theads of these    bolts, only to replace them with a one inch long rare earth magnet and five    minute epoxy?????

   



   There seems to be two issue that are confusing me. 

   



   1) I made sure that the bolt length that I made penetrated atleast 1/4    past the aluminum/fuse jamm when the door was closed and was also long enough    the it was still inside the portion of the aluminum pin that was housed by the    nylon block which is screwed to the door. I didn't want the pin bending in the    gap between the fuse jam and the nylon door block.

   



   Now, am I asked to discard this bolt pin and replace it with a one inch    long cylindrical magnet?? Aren't we weakening the mechanism just for the    safety of seeing a light go out??

   



   2) Why are we using this complicated method with magnets, fore and aft    when we one switch could be thrown by the pin physically pushing the switch    closed/open and thus turning the light out or on?

   



   I made the inner portion of my cabin top flange fit so well that a    business card cannot fit between the door and itself, so if the foreward pin    is closed the rear one is obviously closed by just looking at he inner door    fit.

   



   So with the relay or circuit that Stein has placed in my system, can I    just place a simple switch with is pushed closed by the pin or should I just    not hook power to the door system and since the light will always be out,    assume it is fine to fly?

   



   What happened to the priciple of  KISS? Not, PISSED.

   



   Two steps forward, 1 and 3/4 steps back

   



   JOhn G.

 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	






ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

ronics.com

ww.matronics.com/contribution







href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

sfdarton(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: Door ajar indictors

Our particular aircraft had problems with either the

left or right lower door latch popping open in flight.

The method of adjusting the mechanism was not very

well thought out, it was difficult to adjust by adding

or subtracting washers and or adjusting a rod end. Our

Cirrus service center had no guidance or instructions

as to how to make adjustments to the door hardware,

the adjustments were done through hours of trial and

error. The striker posts are mounted in a concentric

hole in the door jam that allows for alignment

adjustments. The posts are not very robust and will

get bent up if any part or the latch system gets out

of adjustment. If that happens you are back to square

one with the door adjustment.

To give you some perspective, our flight department

has a 2004 CJ2 Citation, 2004 Grand Caravan and this

2007 SR22. I am one of two professional pilots that

fly any of the three aircraft. I have flown Randy

DeBauw and Scott Schmidt's RV10s, I will use the basic

Vans design with aftermarket upgrades in my RV10.

Steve 50212

--- linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>

 Darton Steve wrote:

 > 

 <sfdarton(at)yahoo.com>

 >

 > Our flight department has a one year old Cirrus

 Turbo

 > G3. It is a nice enough aircraft but in my opinion

 the

 > door latch mechanism is the weakest design point

 of

 > the aircraft.

 >

 > Steve 50212

 Steve, would you elaborate?  I had my first flight

 in my friends Cirrus 

 today ..... well, yesterday   ..... and found it

 to be rather solid 

 ...  and this newbie didn't have any problem closing

 and latching it on 

 the first try.  I did find it much easier to close

 the door and then 

 move the seat forward.  The only downside I saw was

 that when you open 

 the door, you really had to push the button real

 hard.

 Linn

 browse

 Un/Subscription,

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 Forums!

 Admin.

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