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6 gallon wing tanks enough

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av8rps

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Central Wisconsin

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject: 6 gallon wing tanks enough

Hi Guys and Gals,



I need some advice from the group;



My second Model IV 912ul Kitfox project is underway, and I have a decision to make;  It only has two 6 gallon wing tanks and the plastic header tank behind the seat.  Before I get any heavier into this project I should probably decide whether or not it is worth the effort to change out the 6 gallon wing tanks to the 13's.  So if anyone here on the list is operating a 912ul with the small tanks, I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts...



Thanks,



Paul S

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_________________
Model IV-1200 912ul Amphib
Avid Flyer Sn#1 and Sn#26
Highlander 912s taildragger
Lake Amphibian
Central Wisconsin
paul676@tds.net

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:02 am Post subject: Re: 6 gallon wing tanks enough

 	  av8rps wrote: 	
		  Hi Guys and Gals,



I need some advice from the group;



My second Model IV 912ul Kitfox project is underway, and I have a decision to make;  It only has two 6 gallon wing tanks and the plastic header tank behind the seat.  Before I get any heavier into this project I should probably decide whether or not it is worth the effort to change out the 6 gallon wing tanks to the 13's.  So if anyone here on the list is operating a 912ul with the small tanks, I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts...



Thanks,



Paul S 	




Hey Paul, I suppose it depends on what you want to do.  Are you looking to mainly putter around your local area, or go on long hauls?  Do you want to haul a pasenger and extra cargo, or fuel?  



My model II only has the single 9.75 Gallon tank behind the dash.  That is only about 2 hours of flying time.  For a long haul, it is not enough, but for flying around my local area it is fine.  I would like to put an extra 6-13 gallon tank in, but at this point it is more trouble than it is worth.



On a side note, this is what the previous owner of my plane did.  I do not reccomend it, but it was inventive at the least.  He took a 6 gallon tank, and hooked a small fule pump into it, and had a switch on the dash.  He would strap it in the passangers seat next to him.  When the main tank would get low, he would switch the pump on and fill it back up.



Not exactly my first choice for a re-fuel.  



Andrew, 

Kitfox II, 815TL, Rotax 582-C

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johnciolino(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:10 am Post subject: 6 gallon wing tanks enough

Paul,



That configuration will allow you less than 1 1/2 hours flying time, if you 

allow for the fuel reserve requirement and use a 5.0 gph fuel burn. (The 

book calls for 4.9 gph at 5500 RPM; I use 5.0 for planning purposes.) The 

912 does burn less fuel at lower RPM but if you are going cross country you 

will probably use higher RPM.



You could change one tank to a 13 gal and keep 1 of the 6 gal which would 

extend your range.  If you do that, put the larger tank of the right side to 

counterbalance your weight in the left pilot seat.



I have 2 13 gal tanks and would not consider anything less.  That gives me 

just under 4 hours flying time, a lot longer than my bladder will last.



Just my 2 cents.



John Ciolino

Model IV-1200



--------------------------------------------------

From: "av8rps" <paul676(at)tds.net>

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 1:41 AM

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: 6 gallon wing tanks enough



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi Guys and Gals,



 I need some advice from the group;



 My second Model IV 912ul Kitfox project is underway, and I have a decision 

 to make;  It only has two 6 gallon wing tanks and the plastic header tank 

 behind the seat.  Before I get any heavier into this project I should 

 probably decide whether or not it is worth the effort to change out the 6 

 gallon wing tanks to the 13's.  So if anyone here on the list is operating 

 a 912ul with the small tanks, I'd really appreciate hearing your 

 thoughts...



 Thanks,



 Paul S



 --------

 Model IV-1200 912ul Amphib

 Avid Flyer

 Lake Amphibian

 Central Wisconsin

 paul676(at)tds.net





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 25040#225040

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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:43 am Post subject: 6 gallon wing tanks enough

Paul,



You can always put 6 gallons into the 13 gallon tanks but you can't put 13

gallons into 6! If you have the opportunity and don't mind the effort,

putting in the 13s covers all possible arguments on both sides with no

downside, unless I'm missing something here and I'm sure there are plenty of

listers more than happy to point out if I am... 



Andrew - I have the 9.6 gallon main tank and 6 gallon reserve and have

thought of adding more. With the mogas situation I am thinking of at least

carrying 1 or 2 5 gallon Gerry cans with me on X-country and landing for a

re-fuel, but hadn't thought of the fuel pump idea. I like it. I know most

like to make bladder stops but I have flown 8 hour commercial flights many

times and rarely use the onboards, maybe I don't drink enough beer... Nope,

that can't be it.



One last thought, fully aware I take my life in my hands here, Paul - make

sure the tanks and lines you use are ethanol-safe when you install them

whatever you decide. And that's all I'm going to say about that!



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 



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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:35 am Post subject: 6 gallon wing tanks enough

Paul,



 	  Quote: 	
		  From your previous post, I would suspect that your anticipated increase in 

cruise suggests you are planning on going someplace fast.  Before I lost my 
	


Model IV, I flew with a group of eight that included two Rans, an S-6 and an 

S-7.  We Kitfox pilots never had to worry about fuel, because it was the 

Rans guys that needed to do all the planning - they carried 20 gallons and 

it was good for just over three hours comfortably.  One of the Rans guys is 

in the middle of a new build and it is his plan to put a 4 gallon header 

tank or aux tank low behind the seat.



If you have serious thoughts about going somewhere go for the big tanks, 

especially if you are planning trips out west.  We always thought that Rans 

opted for the low tank capacity because they are from Kansas and there is an 

airport about every twenty minutes or so out there.  We here are not three 

hours apart, but I would suspect that my long wing kitfox cruising at 90 mph 

would beat your arrival at your 120 mph if you had to stop for gas every 

couple of hours.  This is unless you are an old guy like me and the fuel 

endurance already exceeds bladder endurance.



Lowell



---

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av8rps

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Central Wisconsin

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: 6 gallon wing tanks enough

Thanks everyone for the input and comments. 



To answer the questions about how far I will be going...well, I can't say for sure right now, but if I end up with a much faster Kitfox it is likely I will be going much further than I do now.  So the more I think about it, I really should add fuel capacity.  I fly a friends Rans S7 at times, and because it flies a bit slower than my current Kitfox, and has a higher fuel burn due to having a 100 hp 912 (Vs my 81 hp 912ul), I agree that I generally would like have a more comfortable range.  So I am going to check into my options for adding more gallonage.



Thanks again guys.



Paul

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_________________
Model IV-1200 912ul Amphib
Avid Flyer Sn#1 and Sn#26
Highlander 912s taildragger
Lake Amphibian
Central Wisconsin
paul676@tds.net

Av8r3400

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Central Wisconsin (KRRL)

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: 6 gallon wing tanks enough

Paul - Be sure to give me a shout if you need a couple of extra hands during the build.  I'd like to do some hands-on learning before I take the plunge.



Maybe start looking for a project this summer...  (Don't tell Julie.    )



-Larry W.

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_________________
Thanks,
Av8r3400

Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
YouTube Videos

av8rps

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Central Wisconsin

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: 6 gallon wing tanks enough

Larry,



Good to see you here on the forum.  Hang around here and you will learn all kinds of good info about Kitfoxes.    



I'll let you know when I need a hand or two.  And I will definitely help you find an airplane when you're ready.  Oh yeah, and I won't tell your lovely bride!!!



Paul

 	  Av8r3400 wrote: 	
		  Paul - Be sure to give me a shout if you need a couple of extra hands during the build.  I'd like to do some hands-on learning before I take the plunge.



Maybe start looking for a project this summer...  (Don't tell Julie.    )



-Larry W.

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_________________
Model IV-1200 912ul Amphib
Avid Flyer Sn#1 and Sn#26
Highlander 912s taildragger
Lake Amphibian
Central Wisconsin
paul676@tds.net

av8rps

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Central Wisconsin

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: 6 gallon wing tanks enough

Mark,



Thanks for the input.  Your experience once again confirms that I really need more fuel.  Thanks again.  Good info.



Paul



 	  markdonahue(at)earthlink. wrote: 	
		  I have 2 6 gallon tanks and I wish I at least had one at 13 gallons.  I have

been Seattle to Oshkosh, so it will get there but it requires more planning,

stops and sometimes nervous moments when you wished you had 5 more gallons

of gas in reserve.

mark Donahue, Kitfox 4 with 912 ul.



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_________________
Model IV-1200 912ul Amphib
Avid Flyer Sn#1 and Sn#26
Highlander 912s taildragger
Lake Amphibian
Central Wisconsin
paul676@tds.net

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