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Fuel Lines

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vmenkal(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject: Fuel Lines

Hello folks.     Looking for advice on fuel lines.



My (limited) understanding from the plans is that a single line goes  

from the tank to the gascolator mounted behind the seats and that the  

lines are attached on either end with hose barbs and gear clamps.



I am not sure how the wings are removed and attached with this  

system.      Even if you only remove the wings a few times over the  

life of the plane, Im worried things could get ugly.   From my  

experience,  it is often necessary to cut fuel hoses to remove from  

fuel barbs.    Even if you can can remove without cutting, the fit on  

reinstallation is not very good.



Are my concerns unwarranted?   Is my small brain just a bit frozen  

(yeah back down to -30C - yikes).



I have been salivating over the nice aeroquip fittings and hoses at  

aircraft spruce but the cost is a bit much and the choices of fittings  

and hose are bewildering to say the least.      Can anyone point me to  

a good primer on selection and construction of aircraft fuel lines if  

this is the way to go?.   I have had no luck with web searches,  

Matronix lists, the aeroquip web page, AC 43.13, etc.



The only really decent and reasonably priced source I have found for  

AN grade fittings and lines is JEGS (auto race supply firm) but am  

concerned that the AN fittings are not really AN grade.



I have to upgrade all my fuel lines and fittings to 3/8" to meet  

Canadian Amateur Built regulations so have to replace the supplies  

provided with the kit regardless.



Any suggestions on reasonably priced fuel lines?



Do you need sealant on brass fuel fittings and aluminum - brass fuel  

fittings?



Boy, do I need a good reference on fuel systems (or a lot of help from  

my listing buddies)!



Thanx gang.



Cpt Vic



CH701 C-GCPT (res)

tail done, installing fuel and electrical in wings

Whitehorse, Yukon

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Joemotis(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: Fuel Lines

Another great EAA resource,

  

  

  A Fuel Systems  Review Sport Aviation - 6/93 

Tony Bingelis 

  

Joe Motis 

WW Corvair builder and Pietenpol dreamer 

No Archivos

  

  

  In a message dated 1/23/2009 12:02:02 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  vmenkal(at)mac.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith701801-List message posted by: Victor Menkal    <vmenkal(at)mac.com>



Hello folks.     Looking for    advice on fuel lines.



My (limited) understanding from the plans is that    a single line goes  

from the tank to the gascolator mounted behind    the seats and that the  

lines are attached on either end with hose    barbs and gear clamps.



I am not sure how the wings are removed and    attached with this  

system.      Even if you only    remove the wings a few times over the  

life of the plane, Im worried    things could get ugly.   From my  

experience,  it is    often necessary to cut fuel hoses to remove from  

fuel barbs.       Even if you can can remove without cutting, the fit on     

reinstallation is not very good.



Are my concerns    unwarranted?   Is my small brain just a bit frozen  

(yeah    back down to -30C - yikes).



I have been salivating over the nice    aeroquip fittings and hoses at  

aircraft spruce but the cost is a bit    much and the choices of fittings  

and hose are bewildering to say the    least.      Can anyone point me to  

a good primer on    selection and construction of aircraft fuel lines if  

this is the way    to go?.   I have had no luck with web searches,  

Matronix    lists, the aeroquip web page, AC 43.13, etc.



The only really decent and    reasonably priced source I have found for  

AN grade fittings and    lines is JEGS (auto race supply firm) but am  

concerned that the AN    fittings are not really AN grade.



I have to upgrade all my fuel lines    and fittings to 3/8" to meet  

Canadian Amateur Built regulations so    have to replace the supplies  

provided with the kit    regardless.



Any suggestions on reasonably priced fuel lines?



Do    you need sealant on brass fuel fittings and aluminum - brass fuel     

fittings?



Boy, do I need a good reference on fuel systems (or a lot    of help from  

my listing buddies)!



Thanx gang.



Cpt    Vic



CH701 C-GCPT (res)

tail done, installing fuel and electrical in    wings

Whitehorse,  ========================

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lrm(at)skyhawg.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: Fuel Lines

Just use regular auto type fuel lines and make them extra long.   That 

way if you do have to cut them, you have plenty to re-connect by cutting 

off the used part and sliding the new hose over the barbs.  Worst case 

you can always put a barbed union it for extra hose.  That's the way I 

do it.  Take care, Larry, N1345L



Victor Menkal wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hello folks.     Looking for advice on fuel lines.

 

 My (limited) understanding from the plans is that a single line goes 

 from the tank to the gascolator mounted behind the seats and that the 

 lines are attached on either end with hose barbs and gear clamps.

 

 I am not sure how the wings are removed and attached with this 

 system.      Even if you only remove the wings a few times over the life 

 of the plane, Im worried things could get ugly.   From my experience,  

 it is often necessary to cut fuel hoses to remove from fuel barbs.    

 Even if you can can remove without cutting, the fit on reinstallation is 

 not very good.

 

 Are my concerns unwarranted?   Is my small brain just a bit frozen (yeah 

 back down to -30C - yikes).

 

 I have been salivating over the nice aeroquip fittings and hoses at 

 aircraft spruce but the cost is a bit much and the choices of fittings 

 and hose are bewildering to say the least.      Can anyone point me to a 

 good primer on selection and construction of aircraft fuel lines if this 

 is the way to go?.   I have had no luck with web searches, Matronix 

 lists, the aeroquip web page, AC 43.13, etc.

 

 The only really decent and reasonably priced source I have found for AN 

 grade fittings and lines is JEGS (auto race supply firm) but am 

 concerned that the AN fittings are not really AN grade.

 

 I have to upgrade all my fuel lines and fittings to 3/8" to meet 

 Canadian Amateur Built regulations so have to replace the supplies 

 provided with the kit regardless.

 

 Any suggestions on reasonably priced fuel lines?

 

 Do you need sealant on brass fuel fittings and aluminum - brass fuel 

 fittings?

 

 Boy, do I need a good reference on fuel systems (or a lot of help from 

 my listing buddies)!

 

 Thanx gang.

 

 Cpt Vic

 

 CH701 C-GCPT (res)

 tail done, installing fuel and electrical in wings

 Whitehorse, Yukon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

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b.carl@sympatico.ca

Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 77

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:48 am Post subject: Fuel Lines

Hi Vic.

Get the best quality FI auto fuel line from a high volume auto supply store 

and change them after 5 years or before if they loose flexibility.. If you 

want to save weight buy a roll of 3/8" soft alum from ACS and use to make 

the long runs (In engine compartment use hose covered with Firesleave). I 

like to connect the alum lines to metal fittings using a short piece of hose 

to introduce better flexibility at the joints to prevent hardening/cracking 

due to vibration and pullout/break in an accident. Do use a sealant on 

brass/alum, you  will find that the brass tend to interact and stick to alum 

and sealant makes then easier to remove.

Talk to your inspector to make sure he will accept your design changes.

Carl

---

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dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: Fuel Lines

Hi Vic, I am a fellow Canadian CH-701 builder.  I recomend talking to your MD-RA inspector and finding out what he is comfortable with.  Personally, I have gone with all aluminum and AN fittings.  The price of the AN fittings does add up but at least I know that my MD-RA inspector cannot complain about the fuel system because it will essentially all be aircraft grade material.  An added benifit is that the AN fittinge can easily be disconnected and re-connected.



This is not to say that you won't be allowed to use the rubber hose.  I believe Mark Townsend uses rubber lines in the planes he builds and his inspector approves.  



Just be aware that there is a lot of differences between what each inpector will allow.  Also, if you show your inspector an aircraft quality fuel system, he is less likely to pick at something else.  Here in Canada we still have the pre-cover inspection and it is not easy to leave access to all components.  If your inspector sees extra care in things like your fuel system, he will feel more comfortable not being able to see both sides of absolutely every rivet.  I have heard of inspectors comeing to see a plane and using a feeler gauge to see if rivets were properly pulled.



Best of luck with your build, it is quite an adventure.



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

NW Ontario, Canada



Do Not Archive

--- On Fri, 1/23/09, Victor Menkal <vmenkal(at)mac.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Victor Menkal <vmenkal(at)mac.com>

 Subject: Fuel Lines

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 2:04 PM

 

 <vmenkal(at)mac.com>

 

 Hello folks.     Looking for advice on fuel lines.

 

 My (limited) understanding from the plans is that a single

 line goes from the tank to the gascolator mounted behind the

 seats and that the lines are attached on either end with

 hose barbs and gear clamps.

 

 I am not sure how the wings are removed and attached with

 this system.      Even if you only remove the wings a few

 times over the life of the plane, Im worried things could

 get ugly.   From my experience,  it is often necessary to

 cut fuel hoses to remove from fuel barbs.    Even if you can

 can remove without cutting, the fit on reinstallation is not

 very good.

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b.carl@sympatico.ca

Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 77

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:05 am Post subject: Fuel Lines

---

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vmenkal(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject: Fuel lines

Thanx Larry and Joe.  Sometimes the simplest solutions are the hardest  

to find which makes the list so valuable.   The fuel primer was great   

(also a bit scary) Joe, thanx.



Using a union at wing root great solution for my pitot and AOA lines  

as well.



I calculated that it would cost almost $1,000 to use all Aeroquip  

fittings, hose, etc for the entire plane (Im isolating my fuel tanks  

so times two for everything).     But heck, it would look really nice.



Cheers Cpt Vic



CH701  C-GPT (res)

Whitehorse Yukon

Tail done,  wing fuel and electrical will be finished  TODAY

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