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Fat Wire Terminals

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longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: Fat Wire Terminals

I was out soldering fat wire terminals in the hangar yesterday. There I was with Bob’s directions performing the duty as described. I poked the little 14 ga points in to fill the gaps and started adding in the solder – beautiful job, it oozed out the other end with a completely uniform ring of solder around the back edge of the terminal. Ok, nothing to do but add the shrink wrap – oops, here comes another pilot – certain trouble. Hey buddy, you know that solder is really good stuff, but you should crimp the terminal “after” you solder it.  

   

   

What do you guys think? To me that would simply damage the solder job and add little value to the actual security of the wire.   

   

Glenn  

      [quote][b]

echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: Fat Wire Terminals

longg(at)pjm.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Hey buddy, you know that solder is really good stuff, but you should 

 crimp the terminal “after” you solder it.



The point of crimping is to squash a bunch of pieces of copper into one 
	


airtight lump of copper. The point of soldering is to fill the voids of 

a bunch of pieces of copper with a lead/tin mixture. What would be the 

point of squashing after everything is already airtight?



I think this is one where you smile, say "Really? I might try it that 

way next time.", and let the guy walk away. You might ask him about the 

purpose behind the separate processes; but, that might lead to an 

argument, which cuts into build time. Gotta protect your build time.

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:36 am Post subject: Fat Wire Terminals

At 10:38 AM 1/26/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I was out soldering fat wire terminals in the 

hangar yesterday. There I was with Bob’s 

directions performing the duty as described. I 

poked the little 14 ga points in to fill the 

gaps and started adding in the solder – 

beautiful job, it oozed out the other end with a 

completely uniform ring of solder around the 

back edge of the terminal. Ok, nothing to do but 

add the shrink wrap – oops, here comes another 

pilot – certain trouble. Hey buddy, you know 

that solder is really good stuff, but you should 

crimp the terminal “after” you solder it.

What do you guys think? To me that would simply 

damage the solder job and add little value to the actual security of the wire.


	


    Skilled soldering or well designed crimps are

    interchangeable in terms of reliability. They

    differ only in skill sets, tools and materials

    to do the job. Doing both only goes against the

    design goals both and runs a risk of degrading

    what WAS a perfectly good joint.



    Rather than going to the List to take a vote,

    why not show the visitor the article and then

    as him to make the author's day and show him

    where he screwed up?



    An too common response to contrary opinions

    in our culture is to throw it out to "all

    the folks" with some notion that a majority of

    common belief is the path to golden information.

    It's far better than these things be first argued

    by individuals with an understanding of the simple-ideas

    that support the technology or process being

    discussed. It's almost never useful to debate

    such things by participants at large in open forums.

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        -----------------------------------------

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: Fat Wire Terminals

At 11:29 AM 1/26/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<echristley(at)nc.rr.com>


	


   <snip>

 	  Quote: 	
		  I think this is one where you smile, say "Really? I might try it 

that way next time.", and let the guy walk away. You might ask him 

about the purpose behind the separate processes; but, that might 

lead to an argument, which cuts into build time. Gotta protect your build time.


	


   Right on! Better yet, sic'em onto me. It's

   MY job to field these issues so you guys can

   make better use of your $time$ doing a good

   job.

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

Matt Dralle
Site Admin

Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25550
Location: Livermore CA USA

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: Fat Wire Terminals

At 10:34 AM 1/26/2009  Monday, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

At 10:38 AM 1/26/2009, you wrote:

>I was out soldering fat wire terminals in the hangar yesterday. There I was with Bob’s directions performing the duty as described. I poked the little 14 ga points in to fill the gaps and started adding in the solder  beautiful job, it oozed out the other end with a completely uniform ring of solder around the back edge of the terminal. Ok, nothing to do but add the shrink wrap  oops, here comes another pilot  certain trouble. Hey buddy, you know that solder is really good stuff, but you should crimp the terminal “after” you solder it.

>What do you guys think? To me that would simply damage the solder job and add little value to the actual security of the wire.

   Skilled soldering or well designed crimps are

   interchangeable in terms of reliability. They

   differ only in skill sets, tools and materials

   to do the job. Doing both only goes against the

   design goals both and runs a risk of degrading

   what WAS a perfectly good joint.

It would seem that crimping *after* soldering is a sure way to ruin a good termination.  However, adding a small dab of well wetted solder to the *lug* end of the terminal after crimping seems like a good belt-n-suspenders approach to me.  What do you think of this technique, Bob?

Matt Dralle

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2009.01.25_-_RV-8_-_High-Current_Wiring_Completed_(4).jpg

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_________________
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:06 pm Post subject: Fat Wire Terminals

At 01:20 PM 1/26/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  At 10:34 AM 1/26/2009  Monday, you wrote:

 >

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>


	


   <snip>



 	  Quote: 	
		  It would seem that crimping *after* soldering is a sure way to ruin 

a good termination.  However, adding a small dab of well wetted 

solder to the *lug* end of the terminal after crimping seems like a 

good belt-n-suspenders approach to me.  What do you think of this 

technique, Bob?


	


   What you've shown us certainly doesn't hurt

   as long as you don't get solder on the washer-

   surface of the terminal and make it "un-flat".

   But I cannot offer that it adds anything

   useful.



        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: Fat Wire Terminals

Matt Dralle wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 It would seem that crimping *after* soldering is a sure way to ruin a good termination.  However, adding a small dab of well wetted solder to the *lug* end of the terminal after crimping seems like a good belt-n-suspenders approach to me.  What do you think of this technique, Bob?

   

Matt, I don't want to scare you, but you do know that the weavers of 
	


certain south-western native american tribes would purposely make a 

mistake in the weave.  The belief was that if you did something perfect, 

it would be an indication that you were ready to join the gods.  You 

might want to be careful there.

Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: Fat Wire Terminals

So, while on the subject,

  

 I also read Bob's article on soldering those terminals.  I ordered a  bunch of terminals from B & C and also bought their hammer-crimper.   Wasn't sure whether I wanted to crimp or solder.  The terminals came and  had so much space in them that I wasn't sure I could fill in with a reasonable  amount of additional copper wire.  There was probably 1/8 th inch extra  besides the #4 wire.  I spoke with Bill at B&C.  Heck of a nice  guy.  He double checked and thought the terminals were correct.  I  ended up using their crimper instead of soldering.  Got a very tight crimp  that I could not pull apart.  I am not sure if it is air tight and was  scratching my head about adding solder.  Overkill, right?

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 FWF

 San Ramon, CA

  

  In a message dated 1/26/2009 10:39:18 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"    <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



At 11:29 AM 1/26/2009, you    wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ernest Christley    

<echristley(at)nc.rr.com>


	


      <snip>

 	  Quote: 	
		  I think this is one where you smile, say "Really?    I might try it 

that way next time.", and let the guy walk away. You    might ask him 

about the purpose behind the separate processes; but,    that might 

lead to an argument, which cuts into build time. Gotta    protect your build time.


	


   Right on! Better yet, sic'em onto    me. It's

   MY job to field these issues so you guys    can

   make better use of your $time$ doing a    good

   job.

        Bob . .    .



           ----------------------------------------)

        ( . .    .  a long habit of not thinking   )

           ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

           ( appearance of being right . . .       )

           (                                             )

        (                     -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

            = Use  lities  y                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  =========================<             - List Contribution Web Site  ;                             =========================



	


 A 100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

jon(at)finleyweb.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject: Fat Wire Terminals

Well said Bob.  I sure wish this was more widely understood (on a very wide

scale - not just aviation).



Jon

DO NOT ARCHIVE




<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



<snip>

    An too common response to contrary opinions

    in our culture is to throw it out to "all

    the folks" with some notion that a majority of

    common belief is the path to golden information.

    It's far better than these things be first argued

    by individuals with an understanding of the simple-ideas

    that support the technology or process being

    discussed. It's almost never useful to debate

    such things by participants at large in open forums.

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: Fat Wire Terminals

At 08:02 PM 1/26/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   So, while on the subject,

  

 I also read Bob's article on soldering those terminals.  I ordered a bunch of terminals from B & C and also bought their hammer-crimper.  Wasn't sure whether I wanted to crimp or solder.  The terminals came and had so much space in them that I wasn't sure I could fill in with a reasonable amount of additional copper wire.  There was probably 1/8 th inch extra besides the #4 wire. 	


   If the wire isn't pretty snug on the temrinal

   before you "stuff it" with copper wedges, it's

   not the terminal for that wire . . .



  	  Quote: 	
		    I spoke with Bill at B&C.  Heck of a nice guy.  He double checked and thought the terminals were correct.  I ended up using their crimper instead of soldering.  Got a very tight crimp that I could not pull apart.  I am not sure if it is air tight and was scratching my head about adding solder.  Overkill, right? 	


   If you cannot verify the integrity of the crimp,

   then adding solder is not a bad idea.



 

 

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

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