 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest
|
 Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: Panel Wiring |
 |
|
Kitfoxers, This will be the last dumb question I ask......tonight. I am rewiring the panel on the mod 3 582 I am rebuilding. I would like to leave the switch / fuse portion of the wiring as is . But, it is wired backwards, at least to my limited electrical experience. The power is supplied to the switches first & then to the fuses and on out to the radio, lights, etc.. I don't see anything wrong with this setup. Each circuit has a switch and a fuse. But, all the switches are connected together. Is there any problem with this setup?
Pat Reilly
Rockford, IL
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:07 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Can you draw a little thumb nail diagram as to what wires you have and how they are connected? Draw freehand and scan.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:37 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Panel Wiring
Kitfoxers, This will be the last dumb question I ask......tonight. I am rewiring the panel on the mod 3 582 I am rebuilding. I would like to leave the switch / fuse portion of the wiring as is . But, it is wired backwards, at least to my limited electrical experience. The power is supplied to the switches first & then to the fuses and on out to the radio, lights, etc.. I don't see anything wrong with this setup. Each circuit has a switch and a fuse. But, all the switches are connected together. Is there any problem with this setup?
Pat Reilly
Rockford, IL
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Noel C Thanks for reply. I have a scanner that I haven't learned how to use yet. I will try to figure it out later. A panel master switch connects one terminal of each of the switches with a common wire. The other switch terminal runs to a fuse and then a wire from the fuse to the load C radio C strobe light C nav lights C etc. There is a different fuse that establishes a circuit for each load. All schematics that I am familiar with run from the buss to individual fuses first C then to a switch and then to the load.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford C IL
From: noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Panel Wiring
Date: Sun C 25 Jan 2009 12:36:25 -0330
.ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal C .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal C .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman' C'serif';} .ExternalClass a:link C .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass a:visited C .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass pre {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Courier New';} .ExternalClass span.EC_HTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:Consolas;} .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle19 {font-family:'Times New Roman' C'serif';color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} .ExternalClass .EC_MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} (at)page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in;} .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {page:Section1;}
Can you draw a little thumb nail diagram as to what wires you have and how they are connected? Draw freehand and scan.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Sunday C January 25 C 2009 12:37 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
Kitfoxers C This will be the last dumb question I ask.....tonight. I am rewiring the panel on the mod 3 582 I am rebuilding. I would like to leave the switch / fuse portion of the wiring as is . But C it is wired backwards C at least to my limited electrical experience. The power is supplied to the switches first & then to the fuses and on out to the radio C lights C etc.. I don't see anything wrong with this setup. Each circuit has a switch and a fuse. But C all the switches are connected together. Is there any problem with this setup?
Pat Reilly
Rockford C IL
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
0123456789
0 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Sounds like the original builder used one pole of the master switch instead of building a buss.
The recommended system is:
A large fuse something close to the maximum output of your charging system to connected as close to the battery as possible The other side of that “Master fuse” goes to your master switch. This protects every bit of wire down circuit of it. A wire from the master (panel) switch feeds a buss.
It is recommended that each of the circuit breakers or individual fuses be attached directly to the power buss as they only protect what is down circuit of them. From these breakers or fuses your load is established.
One thing they do which I recommend is if you use studs to make connections a maximum of three connectors should be attached to any one stud. You may have more than one wire in a connector.
Connectors should always be crimped... never soldered unless they are very small wires inside a load. Vibration of an engine will tend to cause stranded wire to crack where the solder stops in a joint.
Certified aircraft tend to use all white wire which is usually stamped with laser or ink a code to tell what it is for. This tends to make installations look very clean. Cars and amateur built planes tend to use the coloured wires for tracing. Just because of the colour they can get looking pretty messy, pretty fast. Once you get used to the white seeing all the colours will remind you of Sesame St.
Do I have a preference... Yes but I also like seeing wax string and coraseal. I’ve never seen anyone get so much as a scratch form either of those things. Nylon ties and tubing covers, well that’s a different quintal of fish.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:23 PM
To: kitfox matronics
Subject: RE: Panel Wiring
Noel, Thanks for reply. I have a scanner that I haven't learned how to use yet. I will try to figure it out later. A panel master switch connects one terminal of each of the switches with a common wire. The other switch terminal runs to a fuse and then a wire from the fuse to the load, radio, strobe light, nav lights, etc. There is a different fuse that establishes a circuit for each load. All schematics that I am familiar with run from the buss to individual fuses first, then to a switch and then to the load.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
From: noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Panel Wiring
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:36:25 -0330
Can you draw a little thumb nail diagram as to what wires you have and how they are connected? Draw freehand and scan.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:37 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Panel Wiring
Kitfoxers, This will be the last dumb question I ask......tonight. I am rewiring the panel on the mod 3 582 I am rebuilding. I would like to leave the switch / fuse portion of the wiring as is . But, it is wired backwards, at least to my limited electrical experience. The power is supplied to the switches first & then to the fuses and on out to the radio, lights, etc.. I don't see anything wrong with this setup. Each circuit has a switch and a fuse. But, all the switches are connected together. Is there any problem with this setup?
Pat Reilly
Rockford, IL
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listronics.com |
0123456789 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
0 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
1 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
2 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
3 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
4 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
5 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
6 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
7 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
8 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
9 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
0 | Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
1
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Noel sez:
| Quote: | It is recommended that each of the circuit breakers or individual
fuses be attached directly to the power buss as they only protect
what is down circuit of them. From these breakers or fuses your
load is established.
|
There's nothing wrong with attaching the breakers or fuses directly
to the power buss, that's what I've always done, but a circuit
breaker or fuse protects the device on the circuit it is in line
with--it has no idea what is "up circuit" or "down circuit." When
the current flow exceeds the threshold value, it opens the circuit,
preventing any power flow.
This:
(+)-----[device]-----[breaker]-----(-)
is equivalent to:
(+)-----[breaker]-----[device]-----(-)
When the breaker pops, they remain equivalent with no complete
circuit, hence no current flow:
(+)-----[device]-----
or:
-----[device]-----(-)
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Mike and Noel C OK C I got what you are telling me. But C that does not answer my question.
+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
All the +'s on the left form a power buss. Mine is actually a wire connecting 1 terminal of each switch. Next in the circuit is the fuse. Mike C by your definition C shorting of the switch C which is not downline of the fuse would not be protected by that circuits fuse. What would happen if there was a dead short at a switch? I am guessing it would blow a fuse up line C the fuse (not shown) that supplies power to the three +'s. This would kill power to the 3 circuits shown. If the fuse was hooked into the buss before the switch and there was a dead short at the switch C you would only lose power to that circuit. Is this correct? If this is correct C I will dismantel the panel and rewire it with fuse hooked to power buss before the switch. I have never seen power to a switch and then to a fuse. I didn't wire it this way The original builder wired it. It flew around 200 hours like this and the original builder did what I would call high quality work. I know that doesn't mean he was electrically knowledgeable C and I don't know what fuse would blow if there was a dead short at one of the switches. I know there are going to be alot of opinions out there C but who out there knows for sure what will happen in this circuit.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford C IL
| Quote: | Date: Mon C 26 Jan 2009 20:04:37 -0700
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
From: MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>
Noel sez:
>It is recommended that each of the circuit breakers or individual
>fuses be attached directly to the power buss as they only protect
>what is down circuit of them. From these breakers or fuses your
>load is established.
There's nothing wrong with attaching the breakers or fuses directly
to the power buss C that's what I've always done C but a circuit
breaker or fuse protects the device on the circuit it is in line
with--it has no idea what is "up circuit" or "down circuit." When
the current flow exceeds the threshold value C it opens the circuit C
preventing any power flow.
This:
(+)-----[device]-----[breaker]-----(-)
is equivalent to:
(+)-----[breaker]-----[device]-----(-)
When the breaker pops C they remain equivalent with no complete
circuit C hence no current flow:
(+)-----[device]-----
or:
-----[device]-----(-)
Mike G.
N728KF C Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix C AZ
&g======================
|
>============
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Pat sez:
| Quote: | Mike and Noel, OK, I got what you are telling me. But, that does not
answer my question.
+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
All the +'s on the left form a power buss. Mine is actually a wire
connecting 1 terminal of each switch. Next in the circuit is the
fuse. Mike, by your definition, shorting of the switch, which is not
downline of the fuse would not be protected by that circuits fuse.
|
There is nothing wrong with your diagram. A switch that is "shorted"
is simply a switch that is turned on--it allows current to flow
through the circuit. You don't need to "protect" the switch from a
short. What you want to protect is the wire that forms the circuit,
which you've done by placing a fuse in the circuit. A short in the
device (with the switch on) would cause too much current flow through
the wire, and that's what the fuse will prevent by blowing, thus
opening the circuit and stopping the current flow.
| Quote: | What would happen if there was a dead short at a switch?
|
The device would be on, nothing more.
| Quote: | If the fuse was hooked into the buss before the switch and there was
a dead short at the switch, you would only lose power to that
circuit.
|
No. Opening a circuit anywhere in the circuit prevents current flow.
It's not like a water leak which could continue to flow to the point
of the leak. Any break in a circuit stops the flow of electricity.
| Quote: | I have never seen power to a switch and then to a fuse.
|
I didn't do mine this way but I see no problem with it.
| Quote: | ...I don't know what fuse would blow if there was a dead short at
one of the switches.
|
The device controlled by the switch would be on and you couldn't turn
it off, that's all. But the same would be true even if you
rearranged your fuses and switches. As long as the device is not
shorted, the fuse shouldn't blow.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marwynne(at)verizon.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:24 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Pat you are correct the fuse should be in front of the switch.
Fuse sizing, should follow the advice from the manufacture of the equipment. If the device is internally protected then the fuse should be sized to protect the wire .
The wire should be sized at 120% of the device load. (Example 10 amp device load should have a wire size no smaller the ability of the wire to handle a 12 amp load.) I hope this helps. I am not an A/P or an I/A but worked in the electrical field for many years.
See ya
Marwynne
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marwynne(at)verizon.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:32 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Mike , I disagree with part of your response.
The protective device should be as close to the buss form maximum protection
of the whole circuit. The protect device in this case protects everything
that is down stream of the protective device. The fuse will fail when the
current flow that was selected no matter if the switch fails to ground , the
wire fails to ground or the device you are feeding fails to ground. Fails
to ground means a short circuits from positive to negative. The protective
device should be sized for the wire opacity.
Marwynne
---
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marwynne(at)verizon.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:48 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Please for give the "wire opacity" ..... hahahah spell checker and computer
driver .....hahahah "wire ampacity".
sorry about that
Marwynne
---
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:26 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
In this diagram you device is protected but what protects the switch and the wire from the Buss?
I’d try:
<<Upstream-----------Downstream>>
+ (fuse)---(switch)---- (Device)---- (-)
+ (fuse)---(switch)---- (Device)---- (-)
+ (fuse)---(switch)---- (Device)---- (-)
+ (fuse)---(switch)---- (Device)---- (-)
Fuse as close to Buss as physically possible.
That way the whole circuit is protected from a short circuit by the fuse.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:19 AM
To: kitfox matronics
Subject: RE: Panel Wiring
Mike and Noel, OK, I got what you are telling me. But, that does not answer my question.
+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)
All the +'s on the left form a power buss. Mine is actually a wire connecting 1 terminal of each switch. Next in the circuit is the fuse. Mike, by your definition, shorting of the switch, which is not downline of the fuse would not be protected by that circuits fuse. What would happen if there was a dead short at a switch? I am guessing it would blow a fuse up line, the fuse (not shown) that supplies power to the three +'s. This would kill power to the 3 circuits shown. If the fuse was hooked into the buss before the switch and there was a dead short at the switch, you would only lose power to that circuit. Is this correct? If this is correct, I will dismantel the panel and rewire it with fuse hooked to power buss before the switch. I have never seen power to a switch and then to a fuse. I didn't wire it this way The original builder wired it. It flew around 200 hours like this and the original builder did what I would call high quality work. I know that doesn't mean he was electrically knowledgeable, and I don't know what fuse would blow if there was a dead short at one of the switches. I know there are going to be alot of opinions out there, but who out there knows for sure what will happen in this circuit.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:04:37 -0700
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> From: MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
> Subject: RE: Panel Wiring
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>
>
> Noel sez:
>
> >It is recommended that each of the circuit breakers or individual
> >fuses be attached directly to the power buss as they only protect
> >what is down circuit of them. From these breakers or fuses your
> >load is established.
>
> There's nothing wrong with attaching the breakers or fuses directly
> to the power buss, that's what I've always done, but a circuit
> breaker or fuse protects the device on the circuit it is in line
> with--it has no idea what is "up circuit" or "down circuit." When
> the current flow exceeds the threshold value, it opens the circuit,
> preventing any power flow.
>
> This:
>
> (+)-----[device]-----[breaker]-----(-)
>
> is equivalent to:
>
> (+)-----[breaker]-----[device]-----(-)
>
> When the breaker pops, they remain equivalent with no complete
> circuit, hence no current flow:
>
> (+)-----[device]-----
>
> or:
>
> -----[device]-----(-)
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
> Phoenix, AZ
&g======================
>============
>
>
> | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
I'll answer your question with a question
What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground, a real possibility.
+ ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device)
|
(-)
What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short.
Noel
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Noel & Maryanne C That is my question! I know that the device will not shut off with a frozen switch as Mike talks about. And C that is not a "short". I was worried about a short(to ground) of a switch. Not an electrically frozen switch. It wouldn't matter where the fuse was located with a "frozen" switch. I guess I should tear the switch/fuse system out and run the electricty from source through the fuse C and then to the switch. Makes sense to me. How in the Hell can a guy that did such high quality work on the rest of the plane be that uninformed on the electrical cirrcuitry. I have never seen power to a switch and then a fuse C except in a battery shut off switch.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford C IL
[quote] From: noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Panel Wiring
Date: Tue C 27 Jan 2009 13:07:48 -0330
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
I'll answer your question with a question
What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground C a real possibility.
+ ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device)
|
(-)
What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short.
Noel
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
So how would that happen, exactly?
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
On Jan 27, 2009, at 9:37 AM, "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:
[quote]
I'll answer your question with a question
What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground, a real possibility.
+ ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device)
|
(-)
What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short.
Noel
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Mike C If the metal dash panel is grounded and the switch internals break or wear a dead short to the metal grounded dash panel could could happen.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford C IL
[quote] From: MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Panel Wiring
Date: Tue C 27 Jan 2009 12:17:25 -0700
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>
So how would that happen C exactly?
Mike G.
N728KF C Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix C AZ
On Jan 27 C 2009 C at 9:37 AM C "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
>
> I'll answer your question with a question
>
> What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground C a real possibility.
>
> + ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device)
> |
> (-)
>
> What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short.
>
> Noel
>
> --
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
The answer to your question is no one told him... I was told years ago when I studied aircraft wiring.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:31 PM
To: kitfox matronics
Subject: RE: Panel Wiring
Noel & Maryanne, That is my question! I know that the device will not shut off with a frozen switch as Mike talks about. And, that is not a "short". I was worried about a short(to ground) of a switch. Not an electrically frozen switch. It wouldn't matter where the fuse was located with a "frozen" switch. I guess I should tear the switch/fuse system out and run the electricty from source through the fuse, and then to the switch. Makes sense to me. How in the Hell can a guy that did such high quality work on the rest of the plane be that uninformed on the electrical cirrcuitry. I have never seen power to a switch and then a fuse, except in a battery shut off switch.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> From: noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Panel Wiring
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:07:48 -0330
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
>
> I'll answer your question with a question
>
> What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground, a real possibility.
>
> + ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device)
> |
> (-)
>
> What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short.
>
> Noel
>
> --
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Simple a wire going to the switch rubbing off anything grounded. Possibly a
broken contact in the switch itself connecting directly to ground. A wearing
of the wire between the switch and the fuse. Fact is it has happened which
is why an avionics shop would never wire a circuit that way. Check any cert
plane they all have the breakers (or fuses) connected directly to buss.
Noel
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marwynne(at)verizon.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Patrick,
To answer your question why someone did something is hard to answer without talking to him or her. Most people think the fuse or breaker is there to protect radio, etc. The breaker or fuse is in there to protect the wire that feeds the load. I have worked in the electrical field for more than 35 years and is very common for people to misunderstand there function. I am glad to see you are going to correct the problem . This will make it a safer plane for you to fly. You don't want a fire while you are flying....
Marwynne Kuhn
Hilltop Lakes 0TE4
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:02 am Post subject: Panel Wiring |
|
|
Marwynne:
You’re being a bit hard on Patrick aren’t you... NOT! One thing no one in a cloth airplane wants to experience in flight is any kind of fire. And the positioning of the fuses was just asking for one.
I too am glad to see the plane will be made safer.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marwynne Kuhn
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:37 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Panel Wiring
Patrick,
To answer your question why someone did something is hard to answer without talking to him or her. Most people think the fuse or breaker is there to protect radio, etc. The breaker or fuse is in there to protect the wire that feeds the load. I have worked in the electrical field for more than 35 years and is very common for people to misunderstand there function. I am glad to see you are going to correct the problem . This will make it a safer plane for you to fly. You don't want a fire while you are flying....
Marwynne Kuhn
Hilltop Lakes 0TE4
[quote]
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring
The answer to your question is no one told him... I was told years ago when I studied aircraft wiring.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:31 PM
To: kitfox matronics
Subject: RE: Panel Wiring
Noel & Maryanne, That is my question! I know that the device will not shut off with a frozen switch as Mike talks about. And, that is not a "short". I was worried about a short(to ground) of a switch. Not an electrically frozen switch. It wouldn't matter where the fuse was located with a "frozen" switch. I guess I should tear the switch/fuse system out and run the electricty from source through the fuse, and then to the switch. Makes sense to me. How in the Hell can a guy that did such high quality work on the rest of the plane be that uninformed on the electrical cirrcuitry. I have never seen power to a switch and then a fuse, except in a battery shut off switch.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> From: noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Panel Wiring
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:07:48 -0330
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
>
> I'll answer your question with a question
>
> What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground, a real possibility.
>
> + ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device)
> |
> (-)
>
> What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short.
>
> Noel
>
> --
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
