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biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers."  It's an AP feed by Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very slanted.  Makes me want badly to bloody his nose.  Take a look in your own local newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and scroll way down to the "California" section, the 2nd bullet.  



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

Larry Cottrell

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

Hi,

   I read the same thing, but however while you may not be too old to 

fly,( you may be when you finally get Vamoose done) you are definitely too 

old to be bashing any body in the nose.

yer friend

Larry Oregon



Do not archive



---

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

Older pilots fly Kolbs in disproportionate numbers too  

-BB

do not archive

On 19, Mar 2006, at 6:00 PM, Larry Bourne wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older 

 Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers."  It's an AP feed by 

 Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very slanted.  

 Makes me want badly to bloody his nose.  Take a look in your own local 

 newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and scroll way down to the 

 "California" section, the 2nd bullet.



 Larry Bourne

 Palm Springs, CA

 Building Kolb Mk III

 N78LB  Vamoose

 www.gogittum.com

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

Don't see anything called the " CALIFORNIA SECTION"

Where it is?

do not archive



On Mar 19, 2006, at 6:00 PM, Larry Bourne wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older  

 Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers."  It's an AP feed  

 by Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very  

 slanted.  Makes me want badly to bloody his nose.  Take a look in  

 your own local newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and  

 scroll way down to the "California" section, the 2nd bullet.



 Larry Bourne

 Palm Springs, CA

 Building Kolb Mk III

 N78LB  Vamoose

 www.gogittum.com

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

Larry, Larry

Maybe we're not too old to bash YOUNGER loudmouths in the nose -- if  

they deserve it!

Do  not archive



On Mar 19, 2006, at 7:07 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:



[quote] 

 <lcottrel(at)kfalls.net>



 Hi,

    I read the same thing, but however while you may not be too old to

 fly,( you may be when you finally get Vamoose done) you are  

 definitely too

 old to be bashing any body in the nose.

 yer friend

 Larry Oregon



 Do not archive



 ---

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

Let's think about this - cost of flying today lends itself to older 

and often better financially positioned individuals.  Getting started 

today is very expensive.  Once the major life responsibilities are 

past like paying for the house, expenses of raising ones kids and 

their education, it isn't until one is older that they have the time 

and financial ability where they can get back involved with 

aviation.  By this alone the majority of the pilot population will 

age.  Attend any meeting of an EAA Chapter that has been around for a 

while, you'll see a lot of gray and white hair.  I just recently 

attended some activity and noticed there was a lot of gray and white 

hair in the room, just can't recall what or where it was.  What was 

it we were discussing.....

jerb



At 05:00 PM 3/19/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older 

Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers."  It's an AP feed 

by Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very 

slanted.  Makes me want badly to bloody his nose.  Take a look in 

your own local newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and 

scroll way down to the "California" section, the 2nd bullet.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

Ayuh............prob'ly not too old to bash 'em, but I'll be in trouble if'n 

they decide to bash back.........                  Do not Archive.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

beauford(at)tampabay.rr.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

What...?  ...bolder violets are bashing abortioned Humbers....??    issat

what you said, sonny....?

stop mumblin....    never liked Humbers anyway... lousy cars... mine burned

oil...



Say,  ain't you the guy with the wierd lawn furniture in yer carport...?

Kinda looks like

part of an airplane, but older.....?



Speak up.... where are you anyway...?   keep talkin', I'll find ye......



..bolder violets, eh....



say... which way to the airstrip.....?



Do Not Archive



---

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

Just scroll on down the 1st page and watch for it.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

Well, I just wrote a letter to the editor of that rag, and this is what I

said:



"Ryan Pearson's article about older pilots crashing in disproportionate

numbers is balderdash.  Younger pilots don't fly as many hours as older

pilots, because it usually more affordable for older and more affluent

pilots to fly more often.  So the comparison should be comparing number of

hours flown.  I think you'd see proportionate numbers.  This is strictly

yellow journalism, making something out of nothing just to sensationalize,

with the result of making the insurance companies worry... for no good

reason.  Who suffers?  Older pilots, in disproportionate numbers."

On 3/19/06, Larry Bourne <biglar(at)gogittum.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older Pilots

 are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers."  It's an AP feed by Ryan Pearson,

 and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very slanted.  Makes me want badly

 to bloody his nose.  Take a look in your own local newspapers, or look at

 www.thedesertsun.com and scroll way down to the "California" section, the

 2nd bullet.



 Larry Bourne

 Palm Springs, CA

 Building Kolb Mk III

 N78LB  Vamoose

 www.gogittum.com

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

edchmiel(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:04 am Post subject: Older pilots

Lar/All,



        Sorry Lar, This was just posted on AvWeb.com on older pilots.  Just remember the saying, about making ststistics saying anything you'd like if manipulated properly.

AVERAGE PILOT AGE INCREASING -- ACCIDENTS, TOO

Statistics compiled by The Associated Press suggest that the older you are, the harder you'll fall. The news gathering organization pored over FAA and NTSB records and determined that pilots older than 50 have a significantly greater chance of crashing than younger pilots. The stats perhaps take on even greater significance considering the fact that the average age of pilots is now 47. The AP report also found that the accident rate went up with age, and that those in their 60s were at a roughly proportional greater risk of crashing. Older pilots were also in more fatal accidents.



Ed in JXN

MkII/503

Do not archive.

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: Older Pilots

Larry

Still can't find this DESERT SUN post! -- saw 20 items from  their  

archives. Don't see "California" or any bullets --

Dunce me.



On Mar 19, 2006, at 6:00 PM, Larry Bourne wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older  

 Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers."  It's an AP feed  

 by Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very  

 slanted.  Makes me want badly to bloody his nose.  Take a look in  

 your own local newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and  

 scroll way down to the "California" section, the 2nd bullet.



 Larry Bourne

 Palm Springs, CA

 Building Kolb Mk III

 N78LB  Vamoose

 www.gogittum.com

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: Older Pilots

Russ et al:



Try this:  



http://tinyurl.com/mg8ll

Should take you right to the article.



George Alexander

http://gtalexander.home.att.net



DO NOT ARCHIVE

 -------------- Original message ----------------------

From: russ kinne <kinnepix(at)earthlink.net>

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Larry

 Still can't find this DESERT SUN post! -- saw 20 items from  their  

 archives. Don't see "California" or any bullets --

 Dunce me.

 

 On Mar 19, 2006, at 6:00 PM, Larry Bourne wrote:

 

 > 

 >

 > There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older  

 > Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers."  It's an AP feed  

 > by Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very  

 > slanted.  Makes me want badly to bloody his nose.  Take a look in  

 > your own local newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and  

 > scroll way down to the "California" section, the 2nd bullet.

 >

 > Larry Bourne

 > Palm Springs, CA

 > Building Kolb Mk III

 > N78LB  Vamoose

 > www.gogittum.com

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

rsanoa

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Bell Buckle,TN

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: Older Pilots

All,

          Todays AV FLASH has the story and can be found at the link below.  While you are on that site, scroll down and you will see a nice write up on the Shelbyville airport where I hang out.    

   

                              avweb(at)homer.belvoir.com

  

do not archive

  

russ kinne <kinnepix(at)earthlink.net> wrote:

  



Larry

Still can't find this DESERT SUN post! -- saw 20 items from their 

archives. Don't see "California" or any bullets --

Dunce me.



On Mar 19, 2006, at 6:00 PM, Larry Bourne wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older 

 Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers." It's an AP feed 

 by Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very 

 slanted. Makes me want badly to bloody his nose. Take a look in 

 your own local newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and 

 scroll way down to the "California" section, the 2nd bullet.



 Larry Bourne

 Palm Springs, CA

 Building Kolb Mk III

 N78LB Vamoose

 www.gogittum.com






	






		

---------------------------------

 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

_________________
Ray S.Anderson

rsanoa

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Bell Buckle,TN

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: Older Pilots

Sorry,

               I gave the wrong link. You see I'm sure too old to fly.  Try this one.

   

  www.avweb.com



ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  



All,

Todays AV FLASH has the story and can be found at the link below. While you are on that site, scroll down and you will see a nice write up on the Shelbyville airport where I hang out. 



avweb(at)homer.belvoir.com



do not archive



russ kinne wrote:




Larry

Still can't find this DESERT SUN post! -- saw 20 items from their 

archives. Don't see "California" or any bullets --

Dunce me.



On Mar 19, 2006, at 6:00 PM, Larry Bourne wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older 

 Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers." It's an AP feed 

 by Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very 

 slanted. Makes me want badly to bloody his nose. Take a look in 

 your own local newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and 

 scroll way down to the "California" section, the 2nd bullet.



 Larry Bourne

 Palm Springs, CA

 Building Kolb Mk III

 N78LB Vamoose

 www.gogittum.com






	




---------------------------------

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.





		

---------------------------------

Brings words and photos together (easily) with

_________________
Ray S.Anderson

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: Older Pilots

In a message dated 3/19/2006 10:44:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  

ulflyer(at)verizon.net writes:



Attend  any meeting of an EAA Chapter that has been around for a 

while, you'll see  a lot of gray and white hair.

 Be dammed lucky to see ANY HAIR at my EAA chapter.  



Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

Do Not  Archive

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Older Pilots

 	  biglar wrote: 	
		  There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers."  It's an AP feed by Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very slanted.  Makes me want badly to bloody his nose.  Take a look in your own local newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and scroll way down to the "California" section, the 2nd bullet.  



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com 	




It is a well known fact that pilots slow down and make more mistakes as we get older.  As people get older their minds slow down and they are not as quick to react and cannot process information as quickly as when they were young, which is critical to flying.  This is somewhat offset by experience, but not enough to balance the equation.  It is no suprise that older pilots have a higher accident rate.   That is why airline pilots have a mandatory retirement age of 60. 



The only dissapointing thing here is that we have someone responding with denial and violence instead of recognizing a problem and comming up with ways to minimize the effects of this.



Michael A. Bigelow

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

rsanoa

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Bell Buckle,TN

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: Older Pilots

Unfortunately the articles don't take into account the number of hours each group flies annually. Older pilots usually are financially able to fly many more hours yearly because of more time and money. Younger ones can't spend as much time or money as the older. So any meaningful comparison should be based on accidents per hours flown. I'd bet it would be about equal.

  Ray

  UltraStar

  do not archive



JetPilot <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> wrote: 

  

biglar wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers." It's an AP feed by Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very slanted. Makes me want badly to bloody his nose. Take a look in your own local newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and scroll way down to the "California" section, the 2nd bullet. 

 

 Larry Bourne

 Palm Springs, CA

 Building Kolb Mk III

 N78LB Vamoose

 www.gogittum.com


	




It is a well known fact that pilots slow down and make more mistakes as we get older. As people get older their minds slow down and they are not as quick to react and cannot process information as quickly as when they were young, which is critical to flying. This is somewhat offset by experience, but not enough to balance the equation. It is no suprise that older pilots have a higher accident rate. That is why airline pilots have a mandatory retirement age of 60. 



The only dissapointing thing here is that we have someone responding with denial and violence instead of recognizing a problem and comming up with ways to minimize the effects of this.



Michael A. Bigelow



--------

NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23933#23933

		

---------------------------------

_________________
Ray S.Anderson

a58r(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:05 am Post subject: Older Pilots

Article in ZD Net News ( http://news.zdnet.com/ 

2100-9595_22-6053430.html?tag=nl.e589 ) about age vs. brain speed.  

Young'ns in 20s have auditory processing speed of 68 msec, 40s---87,  

and OFs of 80s slog along at 106 msec.



Geez!

regards,

Bob N.

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/



do not archive

jadamson

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 13

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: Older Pilots

To add to Ray's observation:  If it's true that older pilots have more 

financial resources (which I suspect it is), then they probably have 

more expensive (read higher performance) airplanes to fly.  "Higher 

performance" would _seem_ to go along with "higher accident rates".  So 

now we can look not just at accidents per hours flown but at hours flown 

in type.

The key premise of the article, though, was that older pilots are 

crashing in _disproportionate_ numbers.  I don't believe it's 

disproportionate at all.  Older pilots are the biggest percentage of the 

pilot population.  If they crash in exactly the numbers proportional to 

their percentage of the pilot population, they'd have the most 

accidents.  If they crash in _fewer_ numbers than is represented by 

their percentage of the pilot population, maybe that's a function of 

their experience and judgement.

In any case, these are some ways of looking at the problem - looking at 

some data - rather than making blanket generalizations like Mr. Jet 

Pilot seems to prefer.  Or am I being too "violent" here?  

As for Mr. Jet Pilot's concern with "recognizing a problem and comming 

(sic) up with ways to minimize the effects", I believe that's being done 

all the time.  That's why they let old guys fly fighters today whereas, 

50 years ago, a 35-year-old was considered a little long in the tooth.  

A 60-year-old today (or a 40- or a 50-, for that matter) isn't the same 

"old guy" as was the case in, say, 1950.  Which is also, by the way, why 

the Age 60 Rule has outlived its usefulness and is constantly being 

challenged:  It ain't based on current research!

John Adamson

do not archive

ray anderson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

Unfortunately the articles don't take into account the number of hours each group flies annually. Older pilots usually are financially able to fly many more hours yearly because of more time and money. Younger ones can't spend as much time or money as the older. So any meaningful comparison should be based on accidents per hours flown. I'd bet it would be about equal.

  Ray

  UltraStar

  do not archive

JetPilot <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> wrote: 

biglar wrote:

>There's an article on page A15 in todays Desert Sun about "Older Pilots are Crashing in Disproportionate Numbers." It's an AP feed by Ryan Pearson, and, in my opinion, is badly biased and very slanted. Makes me want badly to bloody his nose. Take a look in your own local newspapers, or look at www.thedesertsun.com and scroll way down to the "California" section, the 2nd bullet. 

>

>Larry Bourne

>Palm Springs, CA

>Building Kolb Mk III

>N78LB Vamoose

>www.gogittum.com

>    

>

It is a well known fact that pilots slow down and make more mistakes as we get older. As people get older their minds slow down and they are not as quick to react and cannot process information as quickly as when they were young, which is critical to flying. This is somewhat offset by experience, but not enough to balance the equation. It is no suprise that older pilots have a higher accident rate. That is why airline pilots have a mandatory retirement age of 60. 

The only dissapointing thing here is that we have someone responding with denial and violence instead of recognizing a problem and comming up with ways to minimize the effects of this.

Michael A. Bigelow

--------

NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23933#23933

---------------------------------

_________________
John A (TX)

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