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jbonewitz

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Grapevine, Texas, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Some Great ideas on Gap Seal materials. Thanks to all of you.



I remember the Ski Tape conversation from years ago. Couldn't find it then. Can't find it now. Figured it was a Texas thing. I really like the idea of the shelf liner. Easy to get, and cheap. If it's lasted 12 years, that's good enough for me! The 3-M material is probably the very best way to go. Their products have never let me down, but I'm sure it will be expensive. The good news is that the mod is so easy to do that if one thing doesn't work, I can just try another. 

 

Someone gave me a roll of heavy, semi-clear tape that they bought from Spruce. It was pretty rubbery and very strong, but even one layer of it was milky. I never applied it because of this. I think I'm going to start with the shelf liner.

 

I never intended to keep the duct tape on precisely because of the issue some of you described. When it drys out, it's a mess. I almost pulled it off after I flew yesterday, but since the plane is in a hangar, I figured I'd wait a little longer.

 

When I re-do it, I'll take pictures for you who are interested. How are you guys handling pictures on the list? Are you just sending them as attachments? or do I need to link to a Flickr account or something?



 Thanks again,



John Bonewitz

Series 5

  [quote][b]

jbonewitz

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Grapevine, Texas, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Guy, I thought about using packing tape, but wondered how it would hold up to UV. This Sailrite.com ripstop nylon repair tape looks pretty interesting. It's not meant as a permanent repair, so I don't know how it would hold up over time, but it's only $7.50 a roll. It also looks pretty thin (you can actually see though it). Two layers ought to be strong as all get out, but lightweight and flexible too.

 

John Bonewitz

Series 5



On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com (bnn(at)nethere.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com (bnn(at)nethere.com)>

 

 At 06:54 PM 1/29/2009, you wrote:

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was to purchase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of to put on banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not as thick as duct tape, it is strong and should hold up to the elements. Any other suggestions?

  	
 



 I use clear heavy duty packing tape. You could also look on www.sailrite.com for colored sail repair tape. I found the gap seal made a significant difference, but in an insignificant configuration. When I 3-point full flaps I can't get the tailwheel on the ground first without the gap seal. With- it's easy.

  

 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. 



 

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 ===========

 

 

 

 



[b]

jbonewitz

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Grapevine, Texas, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Paul,



Regarding placement of the tape. I went from top of stab. to bottom of elevator, but in reality, the tape edge starts about where the radius of the trailing edge tube begins. The tape really doesn't show on top of the stab. In fact if it were color matched, it would barely show. Whether to start on the bottom rather than the top? Probably doesn't matter.

 

John



As to whether any exposed adhesive would attract dirt? I don't really think it will be a problem. I suppose it kind of depends on the tape you use.



I promise I'll get some pictures for you guys.

 

John Bonewitz

Series 5



On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT <paul(at)eucleides.com (paul(at)eucleides.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul(at)eucleides.com (paul(at)eucleides.com)>

 

 On Fri, January 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:

 > Does anybody have pictures of the gap seal installation?

 

 I too would be interested in seeing photos. I'm interested in details of shape,

 overlap and what happens to the slack when you run neutral or down elevator.

 

 Does the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer or the elevator with

 dirt and debris sticking to the small exposed bit of adhesive?

 

 Which way is better to put them on - leading edge on top or bottom of the stabilizer?

 I assume this is determined by which elevator position you want when the gap seal is

 tight and is determined by position.

 

 Pictures would really help me see what's being done too.

 

 --

 Paul A. Franz

 Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

 Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

 Bellevue WA

 425.241.1618 Cell

 



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 MS -

 k">http://forums.matronics.com

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 e -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



[b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

If you want stickier...not sure of durable...and uglier, use Gorilla  

tape. You will be cussing just trying to get it off the roll!



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive



On Jan 30, 2009, at 5:06 PM, John Bonewitz wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Permanent, yes, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to do. For  

 starters I'd need some fabric. Haven't seen any of that laying  

 around for about nine years. I would also have to paint it. No, I  

 think tape will do the trick. I just need something more durable  

 than duct tape.



 Thanks

 John



 On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 2:18 PM, JetPilot <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>  

 wrote:

 



 Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to  

 seal the gap ???  It would be permanent, easy to do, and look  

 good !  Much better than tape.



 Mike



 --------

 "NO FEAR" -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you  

 could have !!!



 Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 27727#227727



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 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Lynn:

do you have a picture or drawing of the X system?

Second inbibation is starting to cut in and I'm having a problem visualizing your X setup.



Noel

--- On Fri, 1/30/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

[quote]From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

Subject: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Received: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:11 PM



[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>



If you really want to drive yourself nuts over this gap sealing issue, try the

"X" method instead of the "Z" method. We  used the

"X"  method on our model planes.

The "Z" method has been explained....from under (or over) the

trailing portion of the hort. stab, to over (or under) the leading portion of

the elevator, forming a "Z" when view from the side. The "X"

method is just alternating the placement of lengths of 2" wide tape, over

and under, then under and over, etc., until the gap is sealed. In the

"X" method, you make strips of tape that go, say, 2" wide and

from front to back, instead of the "Z" method where you run the tape

from side of elevator to hinge, then hinge to hinge, and so on.

The jury is still out on whether this is a good method or not...how 'bout

some thoughts?



As an aside, when this method is used in model planes, no hinge is needed, as

the plastic covering material itself is used for the "gap seals" and

in using the "X" method, the elevator operates freely without the use

of hinges...not recommended for "live-in"  airplanes.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT"

<paul(at)eucleides.com>
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 On Fri, January 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:

> Does anybody have pictures of the gap seal installation?

 

 I too would be interested in seeing photos. I'm interested in details

of shape,
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   overlap and what happens to the slack when you run neutral or down

elevator.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Does the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer or the

elevator with
	


[quote] dirt and debris sticking to the small exposed bit of adhesive?

 

 Which way is better to put them on - leading edge on top or bottom of        Get the name you've always wanted ! (at)ymail.com or (at)rocketmail.com. [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:56 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

You can use that, but why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the middle and 

dope one Vee to stab and other to elevator.



Or use sail fabric that is air tight from start



Jan

---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:53 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Nope, no picture or drawing. Just visualize...after the inbibation  

wears off....the flat surface of the stab and elevator, as viewed  

from the side/edge, with the tape starting on the top left, and  

crossing to the bottom right. (This of course assumes that you have  

properly made the tape with an inch of the sticky surfaces against  

each other so that the tape can  be stuck down on the top left and  

the bottom right) Now another tape from the bottom left crossing to  

the top right. Where they pass by each other, they form an "X". Then  

imagine a piece of tape 2" wide being placed from top of stab to  

bottom of elev. (top left to bottom right), and next to it another  

tape placed from bottom left to top right. Continue alternating tapes  

until gap is sealed. I can imagine how this would look on a full-size  

plane, and I don't like what I imagine. It worked fine on the models  

and looked ok, and made an especially lightweight hinge. I personally  

don't like the idea of this "over and under" tape application, as it  

always leaves a place where junk can collect, no matter which way you  

do it. I much prefer to let the elevator hang down, apply the tape  

across the gap, and leave it at that. I use "racer's tape" that I  

ordered in orange, which is the color of my plane in that area...the  

color is not a perfect match...however, I can't see that mismatch  

when I'm flying and neither can anybody else. The owners of "hangar  

queens" would not like my reasoning, I'm sure.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

On Jan 30, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn:

 do you have a picture or drawing of the X system?

 Second inbibation is starting to cut in and I'm having a problem  

 visualizing your X setup.

 Noel

 --- On Fri, 1/30/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Subject: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Received: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:11 PM

 If you really want to drive yourself nuts over this gap sealing  

 issue, try the

 "X" method instead of the "Z" method. We used the

 "X" method on our model planes.

 The "Z" method has been explained....from under (or over) the

 trailing portion of the hort. stab, to over (or under) the leading  

 portion of

 the elevator, forming a "Z" when view from the side. The "X"

 method is just alternating the placement of lengths of 2" wide  

 tape, over

 and under, then under and over, etc., until the gap is sealed. In the

 "X" method, you make strips of tape that go, say, 2" wide and

 from front to back, instead of the "Z" method where you run the tape

 from side of elevator to hinge, then hinge to hinge, and so on.

 The jury is still out on whether this is a good method or not...how  

 'bout

 some thoughts?

 As an aside, when this method is used in model planes, no hinge is  

 needed, as

 the plastic covering material itself is used for the "gap seals" and

 in using the "X" method, the elevator operates freely without the use

 of hinges...not recommended for "live-in" airplanes.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 New skis done and flying

 On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:

 > 

 <paul(at)eucleides.com>

 >

 > On Fri, January 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:

 >> Does anybody have pictures of the gap seal installation?

 >

 > I too would be interested in seeing photos. I'm interested in  

 details

 of shape,

 > overlap and what happens to the slack when you run neutral or down

 elevator.

 >

 > Does the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer  

 or the

 elevator with

 > dirt and debris sticking to the small exposed bit of adhesive?

 >

 > Which way is better to put them on - leading edge on top or  

 bottom of Get the name you've always wanted ! (at)ymail.com or  

 (at)rocketmail.com. _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:59 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Good idea, but I'm from the camp that always wants to be able to take  

something apart if a problem arises. I guess if a rock passed through  

the elevator, you could always MEK the Vee off from the elevator, and  

maybe reattach it when the repairs were made. A longer process, by  

far, than the tape method, but cleaner-looking.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:37 AM, JC Propeller Design wrote:



[quote] 

 <propellerdesign(at)tele2.se>



 You can use that, but why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the  

 middle and dope one Vee to stab and other to elevator.



 Or use sail fabric that is air tight from start



 Jan

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

hflynn46531(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:16 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

A really good source for gap seal tape is found at (WINGS AND WHEELS Soaring Supplies ) They have everthing that you will ever need for gap seals.



 

   From: JC Propeller Design <propellerdesign(at)tele2.se>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 2:37:53 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report



--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JC Propeller Design" <propellerdesign(at)tele2.se (propellerdesign(at)tele2.se)>



You can use that, but why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the middle and 

dope one Vee to stab and other to elevator.



Or use sail fabric that is air tight from start



Jan

---

hflynn46531(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:24 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

A really good source for gap seal tape is (WINGS AND WHEELS soaring supplies) They have everthing that you need.

   From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 6:45:02 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

If you want stickier...not sure of durable...and uglier, use Gorilla tape. You will be cussing just trying to get it off the roll!

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive

On Jan 30, 2009, at 5:06 PM, John Bonewitz wrote:

[quote] Permanent, yes, but I'm  not sure how easy it would be to do. For starters I'd need some fabric. Haven't seen any of that laying around for about nine years. I would also have to paint it. No, I think tape will do the trick. I just need something more durable than duct tape.

 Thanks

 John

 On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 2:18 PM, JetPilot <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com (orcabonita(at)hotmail.com)>

 Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to seal the gap ???  It would be permanent, easy to do, and look good !  Much better than tape.

 Mike

 --------

 "NO FEAR" -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have  !!!

 Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

 Read this topic online here:

 [url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 27727#227727]http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 27727#227727[/url]

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 ===========

 e -

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 ===========

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:58 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

At 03:03 PM 1/30/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Guy, I thought about using packing tape, but wondered how it would 

hold up to UV.


	


It works OK. I replace it about once a year or so. You have to make 

sure it's the heavy duty stuff. Oh yes, we also discovered that it 

doesn't stick very well unless the paint's really shiny in that area. 

It wouldn't stick to my friend's Poly-tone finish. I suspect sail 

repair tape would work much better there.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

rexinator(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

So has anyone thought of applying tape top and bottom with the adhesive 

fully contacting each other in the gap? Something like this:  >-<

   It would be very difficult to do well unless you could design and 

fabricate a special tool, but I think it could be done. I'm imagining 

careful measurement of your gap and tape width then positioning the tape 

on one side correctly such that it would allow the other side to be 

applied and close all of the gap with no significant spaces or air bubbles.

 I think a perfect tool might be a stiff rubber block shaped to follow 

the half cross section of the intended gap seal. After the 1st side of 

tape has been applied (bottom?) then the block could be clamped on that 

side to hold the applied tape in the proper shape it would retain for 

the gap if the other side was already installed. Then it should be 

possible to lay the upper tape like positioning a large pre-cut decal.



  Here's an attempt of a drawing of the cross section with the tape red, 

block shape in black and a clamping bar in green.

Gap seal image

Anybody following my attempt to describe this concept?



Rex Hefferan

Colorado M2/582

Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Nope, no picture or drawing. Just visualize...after the inbibation 

 wears off....the flat surface of the stab and elevator, as viewed from 

 the side/edge, with the tape starting on the top left, and crossing to 

 the bottom right. (This of course assumes that you have properly made 

 the tape with an inch of the sticky surfaces against each other so 

 that the tape can  be stuck down on the top left and the bottom right) 

 Now another tape from the bottom left crossing to the top right. Where 

 they pass by each other, they form an "X". Then imagine a piece of 

 tape 2" wide being placed from top of stab to bottom of elev. (top 

 left to bottom right), and next to it another tape placed from bottom 

 left to top right. Continue alternating tapes until gap is sealed. I 

 can imagine how this would look on a full-size plane, and I don't like 

 what I imagine. It worked fine on the models and looked ok, and made 

 an especially lightweight hinge. I personally don't like the idea of 

 this "over and under" tape application, as it always leaves a place 

 where junk can collect, no matter which way you do it. I much prefer 

 to let the elevator hang down, apply the tape across the gap, and 

 leave it at that. I use "racer's tape" that I ordered in orange, which 

 is the color of my plane in that area...the color is not a perfect 

 match...however, I can't see that mismatch when I'm flying and neither 

 can anybody else. The owners of "hangar queens" would not like my 

 reasoning, I'm sure.



 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 New skis done and flying





 On Jan 30, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



> Lynn:

> do you have a picture or drawing of the X system?

> Second inbibation is starting to cut in and I'm having a problem 

> visualizing your X setup.

>

> Noel

> --- On Fri, 1/30/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

> Subject: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

> Received: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:11 PM

>

> 

>

> If you really want to drive yourself nuts over this gap sealing 

> issue, try the

> "X" method instead of the "Z" method. We used the

> "X" method on our model planes.

> The "Z" method has been explained....from under (or over) the

> trailing portion of the hort. stab, to over (or under) the leading 

> portion of

> the elevator, forming a "Z" when view from the side. The "X"

> method is just alternating the placement of lengths of 2" wide tape, 

> over

> and under, then under and over, etc., until the gap is sealed. In the

> "X" method, you make strips of tape that go, say, 2" wide and

> from front to back, instead of the "Z" method where you run the tape

> from side of elevator to hinge, then hinge to hinge, and so on.

> The jury is still out on whether this is a good method or not...how 

> 'bout

> some thoughts?

>

> As an aside, when this method is used in model planes, no hinge is 

> needed, as

> the plastic covering material itself is used for the "gap seals" and

> in using the "X" method, the elevator operates freely without the use

> of hinges...not recommended for "live-in" airplanes.

>

> Lynn Matteson

> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

> Sensenich 62x46

> Electroair direct-fire ignition system

> New skis done and flying

>

>

> On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:

>

> > 

> <paul(at)eucleides.com>

> >

> > On Fri, January 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:

> >> Does anybody have pictures of the gap seal installation?

> >

> > I too would be interested in seeing photos. I'm interested in details

> of shape,

> > overlap and what happens to the slack when you run neutral or down

> elevator.

> >

> > Does the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer or 

> the

> elevator with

> > dirt and debris sticking to the small exposed bit of adhesive?

> >

oscardog

Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 15

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

--  Hi List  --  Back in late  05 and again last year I bought Ski Tape from Tognar Toolworks In  Oregon.

 I have used it on 3 planes and it works great and  stands up well.

 You can contact them as follows:

 Tognar.com

 1-800-299-9904

 E-Mail  ---  Info(at)Tognar.com (Info(at)Tognar.com)

  

 I hope this helps !

  

 George  --

 KF5 100Hp Rotax

 KCOE

   [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

I'm following you, Rex...I just don't see the drawing, just the  >-<   

that you typed in...and that's basically what I tried to describe  

with the top left-to-bottom right explanation that was confusing me,  

let alone others. But why any tape at all, if a rubber/neoprene/ 

whatever block could be made that would fill the gap and be wedged  

into place, loose enough to allow movement, but not blow out?  

Something shaped like two "C's" in cross section, back-to-back with  

an "O" between them, more or less. The tops of the "C's" could be  

tangent to one another if that wouldn't make the device too stiff and  

want to pop out of the gap. It could be made of extruded rubber and  

sold by the foot.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive



On Jan 31, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Rexinator wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 So has anyone thought of applying tape top and bottom with the  

 adhesive fully contacting each other in the gap? Something like  

 this:  >-<

   It would be very difficult to do well unless you could design and  

 fabricate a special tool, but I think it could be done. I'm  

 imagining careful measurement of your gap and tape width then  

 positioning the tape on one side correctly such that it would allow  

 the other side to be applied and close all of the gap with no  

 significant spaces or air bubbles.

 I think a perfect tool might be a stiff rubber block shaped to  

 follow the half cross section of the intended gap seal. After the  

 1st side of tape has been applied (bottom?) then the block could be  

 clamped on that side to hold the applied tape in the proper shape  

 it would retain for the gap if the other side was already  

 installed. Then it should be possible to lay the upper tape like  

 positioning a large pre-cut decal.



  Here's an attempt of a drawing of the cross section with the tape  

 red, block shape in black and a clamping bar in green.

 Gap seal image

 Anybody following my attempt to describe this concept?



 Rex Hefferan

 Colorado M2/582

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

jbonewitz

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Grapevine, Texas, USA

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

I saw what you describe just today. The guy had a strip of this stuff that the Pitts guys use. Problem is, our gap is too wide to use it. 



John Bonewitz

Series 5



On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

  



 I'm following you, Rex...I just don't see the drawing, just the  >-<  that you typed in...and that's basically what I tried to describe with the top left-to-bottom right explanation that was confusing me, let alone others. But why any tape at all, if a rubber/neoprene/whatever block could be made that would fill the gap and be wedged into place, loose enough to allow movement, but not blow out? Something shaped like two "C's" in cross section, back-to-back with an "O" between them, more or less. The tops of the "C's" could be tangent to one another if that wouldn't make the device too stiff and want to pop out of the gap. It could be made of extruded rubber and sold by the foot. 

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 New skis done and flying



 do not archive

 

 

 

 On Jan 31, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Rexinator wrote:

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rexinator <rexinator(at)gmail.com (rexinator(at)gmail.com)>

 

 So has anyone thought of applying tape top and bottom with the adhesive fully contacting each other in the gap? Something like this:  >-<

   It would be very difficult to do well unless you could design and fabricate a special tool, but I think it could be done. I'm imagining careful measurement of your gap and tape width then positioning the tape on one side correctly such that it would allow the other side to be applied and close all of the gap with no significant spaces or air bubbles.

  I think a perfect tool might be a stiff rubber block shaped to follow the half cross section of the intended gap seal. After the 1st side of tape has been applied (bottom?) then the block could be clamped on that side to hold the applied tape in the proper shape it would retain for the gap if the other side was already installed. Then it should be possible to lay the upper tape like positioning a large pre-cut decal.

  

  Here's an attempt of a drawing of the cross section with the tape red, block shape in black and a clamping bar in green.

 Gap seal image

 Anybody following my attempt to describe this concept?

 

 Rex Hefferan

 Colorado M2/582

 	
 

 

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 st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ===========

 MS -

 k">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 e -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



[b]

MDKitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

On Jan 31, 2009, at 9:51 PM, John Bonewitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I saw what you describe just today. The guy had a strip of this stuff that the Pitts guys use. Problem is, our gap is too wide to use it. 



John Bonewitz

Series 5

	




Just a thought, but, how about strips of window/door insulation between the hinge points.  The type of weatherstriping that has a tape strip on one side.  I use it on a golf cart to keep the windshield from rattling.  It also keeps water out, why not air?

It could be attached lengthwise on the horizontal stab, and with the appropriate thickness, press against the leading edge of the elevator.  The foam would be squeezed to make a relatively air tight joint.  The end against the elevator is slick and won't provide any substantial resistance to the movement of the elevator.

Just a thought.

Rick Weiss

N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS

SkyStar S/N 1

Port Orange, FL

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Funny that you should mention this C as I was just about to post what I've used on my Avid Flyer gaps.  It is a foam weatherstriping that measures about 3/8" X 1/2" and has a sticky edge on one side.  I stuck the foam to the front of the gaps.  It seemed to work just fine and I did notice some improvement in the airplane's handling.  Jim Chuk  Avid MK IV  Mn

  From: MDKitfox(at)aol.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Date: Sat C 31 Jan 2009 22:41:17 -0500

  On Jan 31 C 2009 C at 9:51 PM C John Bonewitz wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I saw what you describe just today. The guy had a strip of this stuff that the Pitts guys use. Problem is C our gap is too wide to use it. 

John Bonewitz

Series 5

 Just a thought C but C how about strips of window/door insulation between the hinge points.  The type of weatherstriping that has a tape strip on one side.  I use it on a golf cart to keep the windshield from rattling.  It also keeps water out C why not air?

 It could be attached lengthwise on the horizontal stab C and with the appropriate thickness C press against the leading edge of the elevator.  The foam would be squeezed to make a relatively air tight joint.  The end against the elevator is slick and won't provide any substantial resistance to the movement of the elevator.

 Just a thought.

   Rick Weiss

 N39RW Series V Speedster C 912ULS

 SkyStar S/N 1

 Port Orange C FL

=  	  Quote: 	

 	  Quote: 	
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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:37 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

That foam weather striping sounds like a good idea. You could further refine this by putting a strip of teflon antichafe tape on the other side of the weather striping foam(oposite the adhesive side) or on the elevator leading edge for that mater. This stuff is real slick and I bought a roll of it from Spruce as a cowling chafe tape a while back. It works real well.

  Only thing is, in the heat the adhesive on weather strip tends to give way into a goo.

   That sailplane tape looks interesting also

                                                            Dick Maddux

                                                             Pensacola,Fl.

 From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the [url=http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023 ]latest news[/url].

  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Or you could attach the seal, on the elevator side only with good old 1 in.

Velcro.



Another thing to try is to cover the leading edge of the elevator and rudder

with the plastic tape then attach the gap seal to that tape so when you

remove the seal you don't disturb the dope under it.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:09 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now...  Friday nights

not the best night of the week for me;-).  



I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a place for

grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing".  



What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2 inch tape

sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the

stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the plane.  They

should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.  I'll attach a couple of

rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough!



Noel 

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
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