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Elevator Gap Seal Test Report
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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:26 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

I just flew my plane today, and during the pre-flight I noticed that  

the gap-seal tape...orange Racer's Tape...that I applied on 10-5-2008  

is still holding fast. I wrote the date onto the tape to keep track  

of how well it held up. The same tape that I applied earlier...God  

knows when...is also still holding fas, so maybe we're overthinking  

this gap-seal "problem." Of course, mine is applied over the top of  

the gap and nothing underneath, so the purists among us...you  know  

who you are...would not buy this fix.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 1, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote] 



 Or you could attach the seal, on the elevator side only with good  

 old 1 in.

 Velcro.



 Another thing to try is to cover the leading edge of the elevator  

 and rudder

 with the plastic tape then attach the gap seal to that tape so when  

 you

 remove the seal you don't disturb the dope under it.



 Noel



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Mike,

Unless you get all the coats and cross coats of poly spray on it it won't

last more than a year or two in the sun.  Maybe that is permanent enough,

but I worry that with all the flexing, and enough coats or polyspray, it

will crack.



Randy



--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

The "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or  

"S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under  

the front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a  

wedge of space that wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get  

out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented myself with the  

"over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically  

dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy air, but have we a  

really "clean" plane otherwise?



Your diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.        Lost  

Saturday? : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now...   

 Friday nights

 not the best night of the week for me;-).



 I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a  

 place for

 grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing".



 What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2  

 inch tape

 sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the

 stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the  

 plane.  They

 should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.  I'll attach a  

 couple of

 rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough!



 Noel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

I'm glad to see someone else used the just-tape-over-the-top method. When

this topic came up a few months ago I noticed on a magazine cover picture of

my plane I have for my desktop that at that time it had black tape on the

top side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bought the plane.

I assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the plane

including the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which I am

gradually replacing since it peels.



I was hesitant to post my method since no one else had admitted here to that

simple method. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside of the

gaps, installed with the elevator fully down. With the elevator up it tucks

neatly into the gap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it would not

accumulate anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on

pre-flight.



So far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control authority on

the short-field-over-trees grass strip that I use. Before sealing the gap my

slowest approach speed was determined by when I started losing pitch control

versus stall speed, which made it tough to flare properly. Possibly the

under-cambered wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more noticeable on

a Model 2 than later Models.



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa  



--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

I just tape up to the hinges, then tape again on the other side of  

the hinge...all on the top-to-top surfaces...I'm gettin' too old to  

bend down and look under there, Bob. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive



On Feb 1, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:



[quote] 

 <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>



 I'm glad to see someone else used the just-tape-over-the-top  

 method. When

 this topic came up a few months ago I noticed on a magazine cover  

 picture of

 my plane I have for my desktop that at that time it had black tape  

 on the

 top side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bought  

 the plane.

 I assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the  

 plane

 including the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which  

 I am

 gradually replacing since it peels.



 I was hesitant to post my method since no one else had admitted  

 here to that

 simple method. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside  

 of the

 gaps, installed with the elevator fully down. With the elevator up  

 it tucks

 neatly into the gap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it  

 would not

 accumulate anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on

 pre-flight.



 So far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control  

 authority on

 the short-field-over-trees grass strip that I use. Before sealing  

 the gap my

 slowest approach speed was determined by when I started losing  

 pitch control

 versus stall speed, which made it tough to flare properly. Possibly  

 the

 under-cambered wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more  

 noticeable on

 a Model 2 than later Models.



 Bob Brennan - N717GB

 ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

I did that with ski saver. Worked fin and not too complicated for my brain. 

I can make decent 3pt landings with the Soob on front and no 

flaps----Barely, But it works.    Larry 4-1200 Soob



---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Not lost just out of town until later last night.



What did you think of the idea of using Velcro (just on the rudder)  Would

make it easy to clean and also easy to remove the rudder for repairs due to

hangar rash.



I'm going to try a gap seal this spring when I get the plane out again.  At

least on the rudder to try to give me more authority for slips.  Those big

floats hanging three feet or more below the CG really want to right the

plane.  So far I've been giving full ruddr and controlling the slip with the

ailerons.  Even doing that the slip is more gentle than what I can get with

no problems from a C-172.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lowlead

Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 6

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

I use a 3M 3372 polyurethane surface protection tape applied on both top and bottom of the gap (previous posts shown as >-<). The tape is very tough and stays flexible for years. I recently changed mine after 10+ years of service. It was a little yellowed from the exhaust but it never peeled or lost adhesion.



I bought mine from mcmaster.com several years ago. They don't appear to list the clear tape online but I'm sure they can get it. A better deal might be the 3M 3372 tape sold by Aircraft Spruce in 12yd lengths for about $17. It appears to be the same tape I use and I *think* it might be the ski-saver tape mentioned in this post. Spruce sells different widths for protecting prop and flying surface leading edges.



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/protectiveLeading.php



I bought the 36yd roll from McMaster and found it handy to also stop chafing between the turtledeck and wing roots, chafing around the door skin and door frame, even between the upper cowl and base of windshield.  



I have an Avid Mk4 and the 1" wide tape bridged the ~1/2" gap between the tail surfaces. It also comes in 2", 3", 4" widths. It has a paper peel-off over the adhesive side that can be marked with a sharpie in case one would want to trim the width with scissors.  It also peels off the fabric with no damage or adhesive residue (mine fabric is painted with Stits Aerothane).



The photo shows a small section, tape on both sides of the stab/elevator, (and I see I should have cleaned the hinge before I took the photo ). BTW the tape is not cracked, it's a reflection, the tape is glossy.



Dan H.

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

That's a good-looking job, LL.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive



On Feb 1, 2009, at 8:01 PM, Lowlead wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I use a 3M 3372 polyurethane surface protection tape applied on  

 both top and bottom of the gap (previous posts shown as >-





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 28084#228084





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_141.jpg

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

rexinator

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 33

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

That's exactly what I was trying to describe with my  >-<  symbol and my 

little drawn image file.  I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can 

you elaborate on how you applied so well?



Rex

Colorado M2/582

Lowlead wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I use a 3M 3372 polyurethane surface protection tape applied on both top and bottom of the gap (previous posts shown as >-

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 28084#228084

 Attachments: 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_141.jpg

Lowlead

Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 6

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Thanks Rex (and Lynn)! I wish I could say that it's this consistent along the entire length of the gap, but it's not. The gaps tend to be smaller on the outboard ends due to the way the tightened fabric act on the stab and elevator frames. 



Installation is hard to describe but not that hard to do. One thing nice about this tape is that it's very pliable and the adhesive is not super-aggressive at first. The tape is applied across the gap (we'll say the top side first) with  a very slight 'drape' down and then firmly pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. Then the bottom side tape is applied with a very slight drape up (I used a pc of 1/4" tube to force the drape up) and then pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. The two tapes stick to one another like a champ but leaves a triangular 'bubble' running the entire length . I used a wooden tongue depressor and fingers to press the top and bottom tapes together to eliminate the bubble. (see attached). It's tough stuff and stretches well enough to get a tight installation. There's no worries about tearing or punching through with the tongue depressor.



The control surface (elevator or rudder) must be in the neutral position when tape is applied or else a tension 'bias' might get built into the installation (ex: rudder now pulls left or right due to tape..)

Hope this makes sense...



Dan H.



 	  rexinator wrote: 	
		  That's exactly what I was trying to describe with my  >-<  symbol and my 

little drawn image file.  I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can 

you elaborate on how you applied so well?



Rex

Colorado M2/582

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lowflyer

Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Posts: 8

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Guys,



Please take a look at the following website.



http://www.aerographic.com/gap_seal.htm

These gap seals are used on Pitts and Eagle aircraft. They have been used on many others as well.  There not too expensive, easy to install and they are removable and should last a long, long time!  You can cut to length for your application and for fitting around hinges. My buddy uses them on his beautiful Pitts S2B.  I will probably be getting some soon.



Chris Budd

N53RJ Kitfox IV Speedster

VW 2180 240hrs

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:05 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Lowlead,

  That looks like an "X" job and a good one at that. I will have to try that when mine peels off.

                                                           Dick Maddux

                                                            Pensacola,Fl

 Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more.

  [quote][b]

rexinator

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 33

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

I think had a small sample sheet of this material back in 1984 which I 

used to protect the front of a "chin" fairing on my Honda Interceptor. 

It had the characteristics you describe, clear, very tough, designed for 

protecting front of sporty cars paint from small rock chips.

Rex

Colorado M2/582

do not archive

Lowlead wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Thanks Rex (and Lynn)! I wish I could say that it's this consistent along the entire length of the gap, but it's not. The gaps tend to be smaller on the outboard ends due to the way the tightened fabric act on the stab and elevator frames. 

 Installation is hard to describe but not that hard to do. One thing nice about this tape is that it's very pliable and the adhesive is not super-aggressive at first. The tape is applied across the gap (we'll say the top side first) with  a very slight 'drape' down and then firmly pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. Then the bottom side tape is applied with a very slight drape up (I used a pc of 1/4" tube to force the drape up) and then pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. The two tapes stick to one another like a champ but leaves a triangular 'bubble' running the entire length . I used a wooden tongue depressor and fingers to press the top and bottom tapes together to eliminate the bubble. (see attached). It's tough stuff and stretches well enough to get a tight installation. There's no worries about tearing or punching through with the tongue depressor.

 The control surface (elevator or rudder) must be in the neutral position when tape is applied or else a tension 'bias' might get built into the installation (ex: rudder now pulls left or right due to tape..)

 Hope this makes sense...

 Dan H.

 rexinator wrote:

> That's exactly what I was trying to describe with my  >-<  symbol and my 

> little drawn image file.  I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can 

> you elaborate on how you applied so well?

>

> Rex

> Colorado M2/582

>

>     

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 28125#228125

 Attachments: 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal2_183.jpg

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

John,



As some have said, use the 3M clear product.  I would bet you can find a car accessory shop that applies the "clear bra" to cars and they will sell you this stuff by the foot.  I found several local places that had it in widths of 6", 12", 24", etc.  I bought the 24" wide stuff and cut it to the length and width I needed for the intended use.  I also applied it to the top side and wrapped it around the front of my landing gear for protection and to the front of the struts for about the first 4' from the fuse.



The product is very tough, UV resistant and crystal clear...the adhesive works perfectly on painted surfaces and can be applied using a shot or two of Windex and a small squeegee to remove any air bubbles

_________________
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:38 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Chris,

  I tried to request a sample from that gap seal website in England but it wouldn't work. I suspect they are out of business as it is an old website. The stuff looks good and I sure would like to try a sample.

                                                Dick Maddux

                                                Pensacola,Fl

 Do not archive

 Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more.

  [quote][b]

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

Dick & Chris C I tried to order a sample also. I had same result as you did Dick.

 do not archive



Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL



   

 From: Catz631(at)aol.com

Date: Tue C 3 Feb 2009 08:30:49 -0500

Subject: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Chris C

  I tried to request a sample from that gap seal website in England but it wouldn't work. I suspect they are out of business as it is an old website. The stuff looks good and I sure would like to try a sample.

                                                Dick Maddux

                                                Pensacola CFl

 Do not archive



  Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. 

[quote]



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