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How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

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Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

I was just curious as to how many people have decided to do the conversion from the 60lXL??  How many scratch builders are there going this way now??  Has anyone placed an order for the CH650 yet??  



I decided to do the conversion within days of the 650 being introduced at Oshkosh.  I had originally placed my order for the fuselage kit (everything else was done at that point).  I THINK I got the first conversion kit as my new serial number is 65-7500.  



Has anybody else decided to go this way too??

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

MikeinPE

Joined: 02 Oct 2008
Posts: 13

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

I'm not doing a conversion from the 601xl..  I decided to build the 650 & ordered the plans which arrived early January with the number 650 - 7502.  .  I am scratchbuilding & have started with the rudder. So far very excited & learning more than I ever thought possible.  Even though I am in South Africa I decided that I will build a Corvair to pull me through the skies.  Have done a lot of searching but it seems I will have to buy a motor from someone in the States.  Corvair motors are very scarce hee in South Africa.

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

If you are wanting to do the Corvair, you might want to look at this website:



www.flycorvair.com   



William Wynne is considered the "Corvair Authority" when it comes to converting one.  Him and Gus Warren (www.flywithgus.com) have worked together many, many years, developing and test flying every one of the products they have created over the years.  These products DO have a lot of test flight hours put on them before they are ever sold to anyone.  Gus I believe will put an engine together for you if you want.  Send Gus an email and ask.  If he doesn't, they (Gus and William) could contact Kevin for you.  I KNOW he does custom rebuilding.  All three of these gentlemen are/was part of the original "Hanger Gang".  All are certified A & P mechanics.  You will get a really great engine if any of them put one together for you.



Larry

--- On Sun, 2/1/09, MikeinPE <mike(at)rent-smart.co.za> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: MikeinPE <mike(at)rent-smart.co.za>

 Subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

 To: zenith650-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 4:21 PM

 

 "MikeinPE" <mike(at)rent-smart.co.za>

 

 I'm not doing a conversion from the 601xl..  I decided

 to build the 650 & ordered the plans which arrived early

 January with the number 650 - 7502.  .  I am scratchbuilding

 & have started with the rudder. So far very excited

 & learning more than I ever thought possible.  Even

 though I am in South Africa I decided that I will build a

 Corvair to pull me through the skies.  Have done a lot of

 searching but it seems I will have to buy a motor from

 someone in the States.  Corvair motors are very scarce hee

 in South Africa.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 28063#228063

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith650-List

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

I'm sticking with the XL. I might go with the 650 canopy though.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

lwinger

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Tustin, CA

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

I'm a 601XL scratch builder since 7/2006 and I made the switch to the 650 plans just in time to make all the changes except the angle of incidence in the wing.  My fuselage is 99.9% complete and will be ready to rivet this week.

   

 Larry Winger

 Tustin, CA

 601XL/650 with Corvair

 On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:08 PM, skyridersbn <skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com (skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith650-List message posted by: "skyridersbn" <skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com (skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com)>

 

I was just curious as to how many people have decided to do the conversion from the 60lXL??  How many scratch builders are there going this way now??  Has anyone placed an order for the CH650 yet??



I decided to do the conversion within days of the 650 being introduced at Oshkosh.  I had originally placed my order for the fuselage kit (everything else was done at that point).  I THINK I got the first conversion kit as my new serial number is 65-7500.

 

Has anybody else decided to go this way too??   



--------

Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)

Starting fuselage

will be Corvair Powered





Read this topic online here:

 

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228055#228========================

 mp; Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,

 ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith650-List" target="_blank">========

                 -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

_________________
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Installing fuel system
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

Speaking of angle of incidence on the wings, I have the center spar to install right now.  I know the angle has been decreased to "provide a better forward view over the engine cowling", but I can't understand HOW it changes the view forward.  I've been wracking my brain trying to figure this out.  Any help to understand this concept would be GREATLY appreciated!

On the same note, I talked with Travis about modifying my existing center spar to get closer to the 7 degrees.  Travis told me he has instructed the builders (in the factory) to get within 8, + 1 or -1.  I asked Travis what he suggested I should do to make this "adjustment".  He said I should use a rubber hammer or a nylon one.  I'm hesitant as all get out to do this!!  Mine is 9.4 degrees right now.  I would need to bring down the lip edge approximately 3/32" or less.  I thought if I could find someone with a brake, just maybe I could slip that lip into the plates backwards and clamp it down and slightly adjust the entire length at one time.  Any other suggests???

Thanks in advance for any help on this one!! 

--- On Sun, 2/1/09, Larry Winger <larrywinger(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Larry Winger <larrywinger(at)gmail.com>

 Subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

 To: zenith650-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 8:54 PM

 I'm a 601XL scratch builder since 7/2006 and I made the

 switch to the 650

 plans just in time to make all the changes except the angle

 of incidence in

 the wing.  My fuselage is 99.9% complete and will be ready

 to rivet this

 week.

 Larry Winger

 Tustin, CA

 601XL/650 with Corvair

 On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 1:08 PM, skyridersbn

 <skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 > 

 "skyridersbn" <skyridersbn(at)yahoo.com

 > >

 >

 > I was just curious as to how many people have decided

 to do the conversion

 > from the 60lXL??  How many scratch builders are there

 going this way now??

 >  Has anyone placed an order for the CH650 yet??

 >

 > I decided to do the conversion within days of the 650

 being introduced at

 > Oshkosh.  I had originally placed my order for the

 fuselage kit (everything

 > else was done at that point).  I THINK I got the first

 conversion kit as my

 > new serial number is 65-7500.

 >

 > Has anybody else decided to go this way too??   

 >

 > --------

 > Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

 > CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)

 > Starting fuselage

 > will be Corvair Powered

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 >

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 28055#228055

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

"Ron Lendon" <rlendon(at)comcast.net>

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I'm sticking with the XL.  I might go with the 650

 canopy though.

 

 Good choice on the canopy Ron.  It is a Todd's Canopy.  He is the exclusive supplier now for the canopies for Zenith.  From what everyone is saying that has flown using one, it has a lot more head room (which is what I was after) and it's much quieter too.  I think I would like to install extra air vents in mine though.

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

To develop a certain amount of lift, the wing must travel through the  

air at a certain angle of attack. That is, the angle of the wing chord  

relative to a horizontal plane will remain constant at a constant  

airspeed to develop a constant amount of lift. Now visualize the wing  

moving through the air and held at a constant angle relative to the  

horizontal. If you increase the angle of the wing relative to the  

fuselage while maintaining wing at the same constant angle relative to  

the horizontal, you will actually be reducing the angle of the  

fuselage relative to the horizontal plane. So the nose of the plane  

will be lower and you will have better forward visibility.



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Speaking of angle of incidence on the wings, I have the center spar  

 to install right now.  I know the angle has been decreased to  

 "provide a better forward view over the engine cowling", but I can't  

 understand HOW it changes the view forward.  I've been wracking my  

 brain trying to figure this out.  Any help to understand this  

 concept would be GREATLY appreciated!




	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

MikeinPE

Joined: 02 Oct 2008
Posts: 13

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

[quote="skyridersbn"]If you are wanting to do the Corvair, you might want to look at this website:



www.flycorvair.com   



Thats what I like about this community, always willing to point a person in the right direction.  I received my manual from William last week & working through it. I'll seriously start to look for a motor to build towards the end of 2009.

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:33 am Post subject: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

 	  Quote: 	
		   www.flycorvair.com   

 

 Thats what I like about this community, always willing to

 point a person in the right direction.  I received my manual

 from William last week & working through it. I'll

 seriously start to look for a motor to build towards the end

 of 2009.   

 

 

 Not sure if you already know about this link but I'll put it out anyway:


	


http://mylist.net/listinfo/corvaircraft



This is where the Corvair homebuild community have their discussions.   It is also the list that William Wynne monitors and helps guys out with any problems you might have.  It is a WEALTH of information!!  When you are ready to start looking for a core engine (or 2), ask on that list.  Someone will either have a core or will know someone that does.  Just so you know, cores ARE out there to be found.  I picked up 2 and paid only $150 each for mine.  



Hope this helps.  



Tailwinds and blue skies always,



Larry Hursh

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:02 am Post subject: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

 	  Quote: 	
		   To develop a certain amount of lift, the wing must travel

 through the air at a certain angle of attack. That is, the

 angle of the wing chord relative to a horizontal plane will

 remain constant at a constant airspeed to develop a constant

 amount of lift. Now visualize the wing moving through the

 air and held at a constant angle relative to the horizontal.

 If you increase the angle of the wing relative to the

 fuselage while maintaining wing at the same constant angle

 relative to the horizontal, you will actually be reducing

 the angle of the fuselage relative to the horizontal plane.

 So the nose of the plane will be lower and you will have

 better forward visibility.

 

> --Bryan Martin

 N61BM, CH 601 XL,

 RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

 do not archive.



Thanks for the response Bryan.  It's making more sense now.  I do have a couple of other questions though.  
	




If this lowers the nose of the aircraft, will that make any change in the airspeed or not??  Won't this also make the airplane have less parasitic drag, causing less fuel consumption also??  Will this change the geometry of the rear anchoring point (up and down)where the main rear spar attaches to the fuselage??  I know it's only 1 - 1 1/2 degrees of change, but at 4-5 feet, that distance changes drastically the further away you get from the main center spar, correct?  Does Zenith account for this change in let you make "adjustments" at that anchoring point??  I would hate to get the center spar bent, installed and then go to put the wings on and run into all sorts of major problems attaching the rear main spar to the fuselage. 



Tailwinds,

Larry Hursh

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

I'm putting a 650 canopy on my XL.  Doing the "iron work" right now, but holding off for warmer weather until I mess with the bubble.



When I take some new pictures I'll post them here:  http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.hoyt



For you guys who haven't ordered the 650 canopy kit for the XL yet, be aware that there are actually *three* 650 canopy related kits for the XL.  There is some confusion over this, and none of this is detailed on Zenith's web site at this time.  I only learned of this after talking to Roger the other day.



1)  One kit is for builders who are sticking with the XL canopy, but who just want to install the 650 canopy latching system.



2)  One kit is for guys who already have their XL canopy kits in hand (such as would be the case if you bought an entire XL kit).  This canopy kit contains just the "conversion parts" and a new bubble.  This one does not come with drawings, gas cylinders, brackets, etc, and assumes you already have all that stuff.  If you get this one (like I did, not knowing all this stuff that I know now) you'll really be scratching your head as you'll be missing a lot of stuff and you won't have any drawings to tell you what you're missing.  In all fairness, I think I ordered the first of the 650 canopy conversion kits for the XL, and the gal on the phone didn't know any more than I did.



3)  One kit is the full 650 canopy kit for the XL, which contains everything you need to put a 650 canopy onto an XL fuselage (like drawings, forward top skin, side panels, gas cylinder struts, brackets, etc).



When you call Zenith to order your 650 canopy [conversion for the XL], be sure to specify what exactly you're doing (like "I already have the full XL kit", or "I want to just use the 650 latch on my XL canopy", or "I need everything to install the 650 canopy on my XL which I am building from component kits and for which I do not have any of the XL canopy pieces") and then you should be ok.



If you already have your 650 canopy conversion in hand, and are looking at it and and thinking "WTF?", I hope this post helps clear it up for you.    



- Pat

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:31 am Post subject: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

The change in the nose angle could have some effect on the drag of the  

fuselage. I can't say whether it would be better or worse than before  

but I would expect the difference, if any, to be small.



The rear spar attachment point has been changed on the 650, it has  

been moved down. The trailing edge of the wing is now nearly even with  

the bottom of the fuselage, it used to be a couple of inches higher.  

The rear spar attachment bracket is also thicker on the 650 because it  

had to be made narrower to fit in the new position.



I believe that the connection of the flap control arm to the flaps had  

to be changed also. Before, the inboard end of the flap hinge pin and  

the torque tube were aligned center to center, so a round hole in the  

inboard end of the flap was all that was needed to connect the control  

arm to the flap. Now, since the hinge and the torque tube are not  

aligned, a slot in the inboard end of the flap is needed in the to  

allow the pin at the end of the control arm to slide back as the flap  

is deployed.



On Feb 2, 2009, at 5:57 AM, Larry H wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Thanks for the response Bryan.  It's making more sense now.  I do  

 have a couple of other questions though.



 If this lowers the nose of the aircraft, will that make any change  

 in the airspeed or not??  Won't this also make the airplane have  

 less parasitic drag, causing less fuel consumption also??  Will this  

 change the geometry of the rear anchoring point (up and down)where  

 the main rear spar attaches to the fuselage??  I know it's only 1 -  

 1 1/2 degrees of change, but at 4-5 feet, that distance changes  

 drastically the further away you get from the main center spar,  

 correct?  Does Zenith account for this change in let you make  

 "adjustments" at that anchoring point??  I would hate to get the  

 center spar bent, installed and then go to put the wings on and run  

 into all sorts of major problems attaching the rear main spar to the  

 fuselage.



 Tailwinds,

 Larry Hursh




	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

dalemed

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

I was working on my 601XL wings (kit) when I decided to change to the 650.  My 650 plans are s/n 7480.



I'll continue to build the wings per the 601 plans and pick up any 650 changes that look good to me.

_________________
Dale
Zenith Zodiac CH650

dougsire

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 37

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

I'm planning to convert my full 601XL kit to a 650.   I'm working on HS now so plan to incorporate all of the changes.



What are they charging for the canopy conversion kit (for those with full 601 kit)?



Doug Sire

601=>650

_________________
Doug Sire 601XL
Do Not Archive

ramp rat

Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 3
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

I was the first 650 to go through the Rudder workshop in Oct. 08 or that was my understanding. s/n 7429, 650 from the get go.

_________________
Rich Rost
Wife has all the degrees
Me, student of the School of Hard Knocks Very Happy

chuck960

Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 44
Location: PA

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

I believe I was the first or one of the first to order a complete 650 kit which I picked it up in December.

The drawing calls for an 83 degree angle of the center wing spar from level. 

The wing center spar and rear channel jig has been eliminated because of the pre-punched holes in the side skins so thats all I have to go by. The two rows of pre punched holes in the side skin for the center wing spar support uprights are at 83.6 degrees. This is a 2.6 degree change from the 601. 

This seams like a big change to me but I could be wrong. The rear channel has to be moved down about 2 inches.

If the aircraft now fly's 2.6 degrees nose down from before in straight level flight doesn't that mean that the stabilizer is higher in the air and would have to be adjusted 2.6 degrees up from before?

Am I splitting hairs here?

Chuck

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:35 am Post subject: Re: How Many Other 650 Builders Are There Now??

I think I've got one of later XL fuselages.  Fuselage has things that are not on the plans (dated 03/06), such as the upper BRS brackets and different nose gear which presumably are standard on the 650.



Been building from sub-kits as time & money permits since November 2006.  



I went with the 650 canopy and latch system, and am working on the bubble now.



Corvair engine, front mounted BRS, center stick, 15 gallon tanks. 



http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.hoyt



- Pat

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