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Insurance Question, for those that garage "hangar"

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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: Insurance Question, for those that garage "hangar"

James - I can answer the first part from personal experience. I keep my

Kitfox in my barn and trailer it to a local airstrip. I got my insurance

from Falcon through AOPA and I chose to have liability and hull since I

think I would be more likely to have hull claims but am aware that liability

claims against me could be financially catastrophic in my circumstances.



I don't recall being specifically asked about where the aircraft is stored,

only where it is "based", and for FAA reasons I call my base airport 8N7

even though I trailer to it to fly. I suppose because the FAA required I

declare a base airport for Airworthiness I didn't give it a second thought

about giving an airport to the insurance company and saying "yes" to

"hangered?" because it is stored under cover in my barn.



I re-trained (already had a "stale" US PPL) in my Kitfox without dual

brakes; in a taildragger on a grass strip brakes are not that important and

none of the FBO training microlights had brakes at all, but that was in the

UK where insurance was less specific and a *lot* less expensive.



Regarding your experience in a glider - I doubt your experience could be

applied to a taildragger rating but it should certainly help you keep to

minimum hours of dual instruction. Any applied experience according to the

FAA must be "in type", and I doubt anyone would accept a Kitfox as a similar

"type" to a glider. Just my opinion on that last point.



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa  



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Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: Insurance Question, for those that garage "hangar"

On Wed, February 4, 2009 8:23 am, WurlyBird wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   First, AOPA says that none of their underwriters will insure my plane, even though I

 only want liability, because I am hangaring it at my house and not an airport.  Does

 this make any sense?


	


My guess is someone is just reading information to you that specifically applies to

hull insurance. Get another person on the phone and emphasize from the start that you

only want to buy a liability policy.



Incidently, I'd check with your home owner's insurance carrier for specifics of having

an airplane in your garage. You may have some options such as extending fire insurance

coverage and you may also have an obligation to report such use of your garage. I

found there were some limitations on fuel storage.



 	  Quote: 	
		    Avemco gave me a quote but they never specifically asked where I

 hangared the plane, could this be an issue in the future?


	


If they didn't ask, it apparently wasn't considered a significant risk influence. If

you buy hull insurance they do care. Secured in a hangar is a lower risk than outside

tiedown for example.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Secondly, Avemco said they would not insure me during the instruction phase because

 there is only single brakes in the plane.  Any suggestions on this one?


	


Get your instruction in a similar plane through PPL, then get clearance for dual

instruction in your own plane for check ride purposes. Explain to them that brakes

aren't needed for the check ride at all if that is necessary.



 	  Quote: 	
		   And one last thing that seems to keep coming across my mind;  I have a glider rating

 with 175 hours.  At least 100 hours of that is in gliders that are set up in a tail

 dragger configuration.  They still have only one primary wheel and a smaller tail

 wheel and the CG is significantly rearward of the main wheel.  So does this time count

 for insurance purposes?


	


Ask them. If you held a PPL or better, glider time and operations in a log book would

count as experience.



 	  Quote: 	
		    I realize that I do not taxi in the same manner as a power

 plane, but we do have to ground taxi for a short while on take off and also on

 landing, and depending on how far you want to push the glider this may be a very long

 and complicated energy management taxi.  Any thoughts?


	


As a practical matter, that glider experience will greatly reduce the time and

difficulty required to get your PPL. You still have to meet the minimums for

instruction time but that instruction can be devoted more to other things of interest

such as instrument flying, mountain flying, soft field and short field work.

-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

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_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: Insurance Question, for those that garage "hangar"

For the thousands and thousands of people that keep their bush planes on

lakes and grass strips outside their homes it makes no sense at all.  Tell

them you fly out of the strip where you buy most of your fuel.  Don't

mention storage.  While the plane is being stored it is not covered for the

PLPD any way.  



This is additionally strange as the closer you are to a large airport the

greater the chances you have of hitting something expensive if you have to

come down unwillingly.  If you fly out of a strip in the boonies you may

have to fly an hour or two to find a decent target.



As for the dual brakes the insurance companies would like you to use a

spam-can to learn on.  They have less accidents or so they say...  BTW while

learning (dual) you are not the PIC the instructor is. He may have

additional insurance, for which he pays in spades, to cover the

instructional phase.



Noel



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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: Insurance Question, for those that garage "hangar"

James,

	Try David McCoy at NationAir.  http://www.nationair.com/ 

Fly Safe !!

John McBean

Ph 208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com 

"The Sky is not the Limit...  It's a Playground" 





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davestapa

Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Woodstock, GA

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject: Insurance Question, for those that garage "hangar"

James, I just had a related question come up about insurance Monday. I am

losing my hanger because the guy I rent from wants it back. My only

option now is to store it at my office/warehouse and trailer it 7-10

miles to a closer airport. I am insured thru EAA (Falcon Insurance). Both

liability and hull. I called and asked about how it would affect my

insurance coverage. The answer was it wouldn't. They just want to notify

the underwriter as to which airport I am flying out of and wanted to be

sure it was stored indoors. It is even covered when trailering it to and

from the airport. Be sure and talk to your homeowners insurance co. I

have State Farm and they will not cover anything related to aviation,

period.



David Estapa

Woodstock, Georgia

N97DE S5TD 912ULS



On Wed,  4 Feb 2009 08:23:52 -0800 "WurlyBird"

<james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil> writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>

 

 So I got my new toy home, thanks to the help of this forum, and now 

 I am looking to start flying it.  Here are the two things I am 

 running into;

 

 First, AOPA says that none of their underwriters will insure my 

 plane, even though I only want liability, because I am hangaring it 

 at my house and not an airport.  Does this make any sense?  Avemco 

 gave me a quote but they never specifically asked where I hangared 

 the plane, could this be an issue in the future?

 

 Secondly, Avemco said they would not insure me during the 

 instruction phase because there is only single brakes in the plane.  

 Any suggestions on this one?  

 

 And one last thing that seems to keep coming across my mind;  I have 

 a glider rating with 175 hours.  At least 100 hours of that is in 

 gliders that are set up in a tail dragger configuration.  They still 

 have only one primary wheel and a smaller tail wheel and the CG is 

 significantly rearward of the main wheel.  So does this time count 

 for insurance purposes?  I realize that I do not taxi in the same 

 manner as a power plane, but we do have to ground taxi for a short 

 while on take off and also on landing, and depending on how far you 

 want to push the glider this may be a very long and complicated 

 energy management taxi.  Any thoughts?

 

 --------

 Prospective Kitfox buyer

 Here for information on airframes and engines

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 28449#228449

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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_________________
C. David Estapa
Woodstock, GA
S5TD N97DE

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject: Insurance Question, for those that garage "hangar"

I've had insurance through AIG aviation C sold by Falcon Ins. Agency.  If you are an EAA member C you get a discount.  Give them a try.  1-866-647-4322  Jim Chuk  Avid MK IV C  Mn

  

 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Insurance Question C for those that garage "hangar"

 From: james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil

 Date: Wed C 4 Feb 2009 08:23:52 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>

 

 So I got my new toy home C thanks to the help of this forum C and now I am looking to start flying it. Here are the two things I am running into;

 

 First C AOPA says that none of their underwriters will insure my plane C even though I only want liability C because I am hangaring it at my house and not an airport. Does this make any sense? Avemco gave me a quote but they never specifically asked where I hangared the plane C could this be an issue in the future?

 

 Secondly C Avemco said they would not insure me during the instruction phase because there is only single brakes in the plane. Any suggestions on this one? 

 

 And one last thing that seems to keep coming across my mind; I have a glider rating with 175 hours. At least 100 hours of that is in gliders that are set up in a tail dragger configuration. They still have only one primary wheel and a smaller tail wheel and the CG is significantly rearward of the main wheel. So does this time count for insurance purposes? I realize that I do not taxi in the same manner as a power plane C but we do have to ground taxi for a short while on take off and also on landing C and depending on how far you want to push the glider this may be a very long and complicated energy management taxi. Any thoughts?

 

 --------

 Prospective Kitfox buyer

 Here for information on airframes and engines

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228449#228449

 

 

 

 

========================> 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 


	


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