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Bill of Sale

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Leon Morris

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Location: Flower Mound, Texas

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: Bill of Sale

I know this subject has been discussed at some length before,but I'm just inquiring to find out if there was anyone that had bought their kit during the 1994 time frame if they received a Bill of Sale (AC Form 8050-2) from SkyStar and if you did, was it in the kit(big box) with all the other paperwork or was it mailed separately? The reason I asked was I can't find mine anywhere in my paperwork or old records. Thanks--- Leon Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/Flower Mound,TX

_________________
Leon Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/Flower Mound,TX

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Bill of Sale

Leon,

I purchased my Kit in Sept. 1994.  I remember when I was getting close to registering the finished airplane the FAA was making a big stink about having paper work to track the kit back to the kit manufacturer.



I just looked in my files and found the Bill of sale from Skystar.  It is dated Aug, 1999.  Sooo, I would say, in 1994 I didn't get the kind of paper work the FAA wanted, so later contacted Skystar to issue me this Bill of sale.



This bill of sale is an FAA form that Skystar filled out.  The form number is AC Form (8050-2) (9/92).

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Leon Morris

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Location: Flower Mound, Texas

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: Bill of Sale

Thanks Tom, I thought that if I had got a bill of sale I would have hung on to it.Guess they didn't send me one either. I purchased mine in Aug 94.--- Leon 

---- Tom Jones <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Leon,

 I purchased my Kit in Sept. 1994.  I remember when I was getting close to registering the finished airplane the FAA was making a big stink about having paper work to track the kit back to the kit manufacturer.

 

 I just looked in my files and found the Bill of sale from Skystar.  It is dated Aug, 1999.  Sooo, I would say, in 1994 I didn't get the kind of paper work the FAA wanted, so later contacted Skystar to issue me this Bill of sale.

 

 This bill of sale is an FAA form that Skystar filled out.  The form number is AC Form (8050-2) (9/92).

 

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 29243#229243

_________________
Leon Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/Flower Mound,TX

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Bill of Sale

 	  Leon Morris wrote: 	
		  I know this subject has been discussed at some length before,but I'm just inquiring to find out if there was anyone that had bought their kit during the 1994 time frame if they received a Bill of Sale (AC Form 8050-2) from SkyStar and if you did, was it in the kit(big box) with all the other paperwork or was it mailed separately? The reason I asked was I can't find mine anywhere in my paperwork or old records. Thanks--- Leon Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/Flower Mound,TX 	


Did you ever register the plane?  If so, you can request the record from the FAA and they should have the bill of sale on file.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject: Bill of Sale

Hi Leon-

When I registered mine...I was the 4th owner...I got nervous because  

there was a misspelling of one of the previous owner's names, and  

there was a widow involved, who had signed off her spouse's name,  

both of which I could see might cause a lengthy delay in getting the  

paperwork through. I had the "paper trail" all the way from the  

original sales receipt from Skystar to the last owner. I talked with  

EAA and they suggested that I register it as "built from  

miscellaneous parts". They told me that this was the same as if the  

kit were incomplete, which in truth it was....there was no cowl. So I  

called OK City...or whoever...and ran this by them and they said that  

was perfectly legit to do it that way, so I did. I got the completed  

registration back in 3 weeks, all perfectly legal.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 8, 2009, at 4:11 PM, <l.morris(at)tx.rr.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



    I know this subject has been discussed at some length before,but  

 I'm just inquiring to find out if there was anyone that had bought  

 their kit during the 1994 time frame if they received a Bill of  

 Sale (AC Form 8050-2) from SkyStar and if you did, was it in the kit 

 (big box) with all the other paperwork or was it mailed separately?  

 The reason I asked was I can't find mine anywhere in my paperwork  

 or old records. Thanks--- Leon Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/ 

 Flower Mound,TX

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

dgolden(at)golden-consult
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject: Bill of Sale

l.morris(at)tx.rr.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I know this subject has been discussed at some length before,but I'm

 just inquiring to find out if there was anyone that had bought their

 kit during the 1994 time frame if they received a Bill of Sale (AC

 Form 8050-2) from SkyStar and if you did, was it in the kit(big box)

 with all the other paperwork or was it mailed separately? The reason

 I asked was I can't find mine anywhere in my paperwork or old

 records. Thanks--- Leon Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/Flower

 Mound,TX


	


Nope, and you ain't going to get one. I purchased my kit M IV Speedster

in 1992 and have the same problem. I brought it up at the builders

workshop in Dallas last year. The FAA is aware of the problems as is EAA

 who suggested the solution.



Send a registered letter to Sky Star requesting the Bill of Sale. Since

the P.O. will not be able to deliver it to them. You have the evidence

that you made the expected effort to obtain the Bill of Sale. EAA says

that this is enough to satisfy the FSDO.



Regards,



Dennis M IV Speedster (not any where close to completion as you)



-- 

Dennis Golden

Golden Consulting Services, Inc.

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: Bill of Sale

Lynn C What documents did you have to have to register as "built from misc. parts"? What serial # did you use? I'm beginning to have same problem. I sent a request to reinstate original N #. The insurance co. that paid the cliam did not file a letter to deregister until now at my request. The claim was paid in 2001. The FAA also wants a paper trail of sales from the orig owner. I am the 4th owner and have a bill of sale to me but that's it as far as sale documents.

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Bill of Sale

 Date: Sun C 8 Feb 2009 18:55:22 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Hi Leon-

 When I registered mine...I was the 4th owner...I got nervous because 

 there was a misspelling of one of the previous owner's names C and 

 there was a widow involved C who had signed off her spouse's name C 

 both of which I could see might cause a lengthy delay in getting the 

 paperwork through. I had the "paper trail" all the way from the 

 original sales receipt from Skystar to the last owner. I talked with 

 EAA and they suggested that I register it as "built from 

 miscellaneous parts". They told me that this was the same as if the 

 kit were incomplete C which in truth it was....there was no cowl. So I 

 called OK City...or whoever...and ran this by them and they said that 

 was perfectly legit to do it that way C so I did. I got the completed 

 registration back in 3 weeks C all perfectly legal.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 605 hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 New skis done and flying

 On Feb 8 C 2009 C at 4:11 PM C <l.morris(at)tx.rr.com> wrote:

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: <l.morris(at)tx.rr.com>

 >

 > I know this subject has been discussed at some length before Cbut 

 > I'm just inquiring to find out if there was anyone that had bought 

 > their kit during the 1994 time frame if they received a Bill of 

 > Sale (AC Form 8050-2) from SkyStar and if you did C was it in the kit 

 > (big box) with all the other paperwork or was it mailed separately? 

 > The reason I asked was I can't find mine anywhere in my paperwork 

 > or old records. Thanks--- Leon Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/ 

 > Flower Mound CTX

 >

 >

& Archive Search & Download C 7-Day Browse C Chat C FAQ C

&gt===

[quote] 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Michael Logan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 82

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: Bill of Sale

I bought mine in 94 and it did not come with a bill of sale.  I had to

contact the company when I completed the plane in order to get it inspected

and registered.



Mike

Series 5 NSI 

N956ML



--

_________________
Mike Logan
Fredericksburg, VA

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Bill of Sale

My kit is a 2002 and I registered it this last July without a bill of sale from Skystar.  Go to the new kitfox website and download and print the explanation of the demise of Skystar and send that in with your paperwork to the FAA with a letter from yourself again explaining when you bought the kit and the fact that Skystar didn't issue a bill of sale with the kit but you actually had to request one...since they are out of business this is impossible.  John's explanation in the letter from Kitfox Aircraft does a great job and they have seen this at least once (my case) and probably several other times.  Here is the link to the letter and alternate bill of sale.  They didn't even question me using this.



http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/Bill%20of%20Sale.htm

_________________
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:46 am Post subject: Bill of Sale

I used the serial number that is stamped on the metal plate on the  

plane. I filled out the proper form...can't recall what form that was  

right now, but it is part of the "package" that the FSDO sent me when  

I requested a "registration package."  You might ask the EAA about  

the "misc. parts" or "incomplete kit" method, or simply ask the  

FAA...it certainly worked for me. After all, there are people who  

build from scratch, and they have been able to register their aircraft.

Now that I'm thinking about it, it seems like "incomplete kit" is  

sticking in my brain for some reason. Part of my thinking about the  

miscellaneous parts thing is, if some of your kit is missing, you  

have an incomplete kit, therefore your plane is not a "kitbuilt"  

plane, it is built from miscellaneous parts.



Incidentally, in looking for copies of the paperwork that I sent  

in...and could not find, because I probably never made any...I found  

the pink copy of the "AC Form 8050-1"  (Aircraft Registration  

Application) and printed boldly across the whole thing is the  

message: "OPERATIONS OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES ARE PROHIBITED BY  

LAW".....for what it's worth.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 8, 2009, at 7:06 PM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, What documents did you have to have to register as "built  

 from misc. parts"? What serial # did you use? I'm beginning to have  

 same problem. I sent a request to reinstate original N #. The  

 insurance co. that paid the cliam did not file a letter to  

 deregister until now at my request. The claim was paid in 2001. The  

 FAA also wants a paper trail of sales from the orig owner. I am the  

 4th owner and have a bill of sale to me but that's it as far as  

 sale documents.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL





 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: Bill of Sale

 > Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 18:55:22 -0500

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > 

 >

 > Hi Leon-

 > When I registered mine...I was the 4th owner...I got nervous because

 > there was a misspelling of one of the previous owner's names, and

 > there was a widow involved, who had signed off her spouse's name,

 > both of which I could see might cause a lengthy delay in getting the

 > paperwork through. I had the "paper trail" all the way from the

 > original sales receipt from Skystar to the last owner. I talked with

 > EAA and they suggested that I register it as "built from

 > miscellaneous parts". They told me that this was the same as if the

 > kit were incomplete, which in truth it was....there was no cowl.  

 So I

 > called OK City...or whoever...and ran this by them and they said  

 that

 > was perfectly legit to do it that way, so I did. I got the completed

 > registration back in 3 weeks, all perfectly legal.

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

 > Sensenich 62x46

 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 > New skis done and flying

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > On Feb 8, 2009, at 4:11 PM, <l.morris(at)tx.rr.com> wrote:

 >

 > > 

 > >

 > > I know this subject has been discussed at some length before,but

 > > I'm just inquiring to find out if there was anyone that had bought

 > > their kit during the 1994 time frame if they received a Bill of

 > > Sale (AC Form 8050-2) from SkyStar and if you did, was it in  

 the kit

 > > (big box) with all the other paperwork or was it mailed  

 separately?

 > > The reason I asked was I can't find mine anywhere in my paperwork

 > > or old records. Thanks--- Leon Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/

 > > Flower Mound,TX

 > >

 > >

 & Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,

 >===

 >

 >

 >

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:51 am Post subject: Bill of Sale

Another part of my "paper trail" was a receipt from Skystar Aircraft  

Corp. dated Sept 20, 2002, for a kit sold Jan 31, 1994. This was  

another reason for me to think this paper trail is so convoluted with  

receipts dated 8 years down the road, and widows, executors, lawyers,  

etc, that I went the "miscellaneous parts" route.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 8, 2009, at 8:23 PM, Michael Logan wrote:



[quote] 

 <michael.logan(at)cox.net>



 I bought mine in 94 and it did not come with a bill of sale.  I had to

 contact the company when I completed the plane in order to get it  

 inspected

 and registered.



 Mike

 Series 5 NSI

 N956ML



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: Bill of Sale

Volume 5 AIRMAN CERTIFICATION

CHAPTER 5   Title 14 CFR PART 65-AIRMEN OTHER THAN FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS has an

exception to the statement about "Operations outside of the United States"

for operations in Canada.  There is a reciprocal agreement also for Canadian

Amateur built aircraft to operate in the US.

http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v05%20airman%20cert/chapter%2005/05_005_00

5rev1.htm



Transport Canada has an online letter to print and carry aboard a US amateur

built aircraft while operating in Canadian Airspace. URL:

 http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/ultralights/sfa/media/tcauth.pdf 



FAA also Has such a letter for Canadian Registered Amateur built aircraft.

URL:

 http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/ultralights/sfa/media/amateur.pdf



Operations of LSA by Sport pilot certificate holders ARE NOT covered by

these exceptions. 

John Hart



--

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: Bill of Sale

 	  Quote: 	
		  ...I found the pink copy of the "AC Form 8050-1" (Aircraft 

Registration Application) and printed boldly across the whole thing 

is the message: "OPERATIONS OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES ARE 

PROHIBITED BY LAW".....for what it's worth.


	


Interesting.  What authority does the United States have to say what 

can be done outside of its jurisdiction?  Where's a lawyer when you 

need one?  



Mike G.

N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster

Phoenix, AZ



Do not archive

Leon Morris

Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Location: Flower Mound, Texas

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: Bill of Sale

All of your ideas and thoughts sound good and legit and I guess it's down to which way do you want to persue it. I could probably go downtown Dallas and get the guy on the street corner selling passports to give me a bill of sale. Will probably try Darin's idea first. Leon Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/Flower Mound,TX 

 

---- darinh <gerns25(at)netscape.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 My kit is a 2002 and I registered it this last July without a bill of sale from Skystar.  Go to the new kitfox website and download and print the explanation of the demise of Skystar and send that in with your paperwork to the FAA with a letter from yourself again explaining when you bought the kit and the fact that Skystar didn't issue a bill of sale with the kit but you actually had to request one...since they are out of business this is impossible.  John's explanation in the letter from Kitfox Aircraft does a great job and they have seen this at least once (my case) and probably several other times.  They did not even question mine.

 

 --------

 Darin Hawkes

 Series 7 

 914 Turbo

 Kaysville, Utah

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 29297#229297

_________________
Leon Morris/Classic 4 Speedster/65%/Flower Mound,TX

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