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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
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 Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:37 am Post subject: Adding wing tanks |
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Thanks Bob, I appreciate that and look forward to the info.
Do not archive
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
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akflyerbob
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Soldotna, Alaska
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Adding wing tanks |
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Bob
Looks like John and Debra might have to chime in.
Sorry for the delay.
I looked thru all my stuff, Mod 1, 2 and 3 books. I found
instructions for building the wings with the different tanks
and a letter from Sky Star stating retro fit instructions had
been sent with the 13 gal tanks but I did not find the
instructions.
When I installed the 13 gal tk I removed the drag tube and one
rib. moved the short braces over one rib and re-riveted them w/glue.
The tk installed with construction silicone, not so flexible.
The wing had had a 6 gal tk.
Bob
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_________________
Bob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alaska
KF Mod I and III |
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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: Adding wing tanks |
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I've had a look inside my port wing and the pix online again and it looks
like I could simply mount two 6 gallon tanks without removing any struts
only cross braces. The braces are only glued in place and I assume gluing
the tanks and plywood in place will be stronger.
I haven't contacted either wingtanks.com or the McBeans yet as to which is
better to buy from and/or who sells the better tanks, it's too bloody cold
here anyway for that kind of work! I do have plenty of space with a barn, a
"shed" (large enough to park a plane, farm tractor, trailer and boat in at
once), and a large garage but none are enclosed enough to heat; so it's
off-season for me.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
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dholly
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Upstate NY
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Adding wing tanks |
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Bob-
If you are concerned that adding two of the plastic tanks per wing will compromise wing strength, I believe the oem recommended install for both Skystar and Kitfox wing tanks requires removal of drag tubes and #2 rib with only silicone holding the tanks in place, right? I know there are several more Avids with Skystar wing tanks and no root end support tubes or #2 ribs (or, in the case of Avid wings with 12" o.c. rib spacing, the #2 and #3 ribs), all seemingly flying just fine. There certainly appears to be more than sufficient collective flying hours among them to confirm adequate wing strength, so I think a better question perhaps is whether wing structure after installing two plastic tanks per manufacturer's instructions is at least as strong in comparison. I don't know the particulars of your KF2 wing but the following info and pics should give you something to compare to. Because there is sufficient difference between a 'retrofit' (installed into an existing Avid fiberglass-wrapped wing tank as shown on the wingtanks.com website) and a new 'clean' install, it's probably best to look at each separately.
For reference, the Avid Heavy Hauler internal wing bracing includes, in part, (1) long 1/2" dia. steel drag tube from rear spar at root to front spar at #4 rib; and (3) short 5/16" dia. alum root rib brace tubes, (1) from front spar to root rib web and (2) from rear spar to root rib web. Adding the Avid 'fiberglass wrapped' wing tank replaced all of these supports plus the #2 and #3 ribs, but added a few layers of fiberglass mat wrapped all the way around the f/r spars to provide some rigidity and hold everything in place. The identical supports and ribs are replaced when installing (2) plastic tanks per wing. To install, (4) new alum support tubes for the plastic tanks to set upon are added between and perpendicular to the f/r spars. An extra rib is installed between the tanks and new upper and lower ply (or alum) skin is glued over the root to #4 rib bays and filled with expanding foam. Retrofitting the plastic tanks into an existing Avid 'fiberglass-wrapped' wing tank involves removing the tank top only, leaving the majority of the pre-installed tank intact. I have seen retrofits done with ply installed in the bottom of the old tanks for the new support tubes to set on (the recommended instructions I believe), but also without. As with the clean install, no additional drag/anti drag tubes are added or omitted, however, you lose the ability to add a new rib between the plastic tanks when doing a retrofit.
Whether either of the plastic tank installs result in a stronger wing structure than simply gluing the KF tank directly to the spars is up to you. More importantly, deciding whether any of these install methods are safe on your experimental aircraft is builder discretion. Personally, I'm ok with the plastic tank install procedures. As Leni noted, an experienced aircraft manufacturer took time to design and test both configurations before offering to the public, and the Avid owners who retrofitted them appear to be satisfied. The ethanol proof poly and ability to add a rib on my current project is very attractive, but the higher cost per wing, loss of 6gals and fittings between tanks which might be a b*tch to repair in a covered wing still have me a little gun shy. If the ethanol resistance of the new 13gal Kitfox wing tank resin is as good as John McBean said (ie. several months with 100% ethanol exposure and no degradation.) and they can be fit properly in the flat bottom Avid speed wing, I certainly won't dismiss them. I had Skystar tanks in an Avid HH and excepting the poly resin was comfortable with that install as well. -Doug
p.s. - Hi Lynn, I posted here because my email and tel messages to Kitfox went unanswered. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the "A" word, lol.
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_________________
-Kitfox III 582 Blue/C Grove Spring / Aerocet 1100 Amphibs
-Airdale Avid+ (project) TD / W.I.B. Gear |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: Adding wing tanks |
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Oops! Gotta wonder if the Avid and Kitfox "cousins" had an agreeable
Christmas holiday or whether a fight broke out. : ) Seriously, I
doubt that the new owners carry any grudge towards their earlier
ancestors and kinfolk.
Maybe they've been to aircraft shows? Sebring, maybe?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 18, 2009, at 7:32 PM, dholly wrote:
| Quote: |
p.s. - Hi Lynn, I posted here because my email and tel messages to
Kitfox went unanswered. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the "A"
word, lol.
--------
Airdale Avid+ project | Jab2200 | Aerocet 1100 Amphibs
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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