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Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

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815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

I looked into this onece before and did not find any companies that would insure the combination of a Kitfox and a student pilot.  Right now I am flying without insurance.  I am not so much worried about the plane, but liability.  If, God forbid, for some reason I lose control and hit another airplane on the ramp, person, or the hangar, I would like some coverage to pay for it.  



I checked again today with two companies, and both told me I had insufficient time in type.  How the heck do they expect you to get time in type, unless you fly uninsured.  It is almost like they exect you to fly the first few hundered hours with no insurance.  If that is what it takes, fine, but I would feel better with a little coverage.



Is there anyone that has been able to get insurace on a Kitfox as a student, or am I just stuck.



It just seems backwards to me.



Andrew,

815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C

sbennett3(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

Andrew, I flew the first 250 hrs without insurance. I think when you get your certificate/licence, You'll be able to get insurance but trust me. It will be costly. Self insure for the first year and it'll also remind you to fly in good conditions and to always be safe.  When I was 16 and was getting my drivers licence(28 yrs ago) the instructor told us students that he wished all students would learn how to drive as if there's a big knife sticking out of the steering wheel... He said you'll think twice before following too close or stopping too fast... Steve Bennett 4 classic 1200 912UL 109BB 

  

  

  

 In a message dated 02/12/09 15:34:01 Eastern Standard Time, lawrenceaw(at)corning.com writes:

 [quote]   .aolmailheader          {font-size:8pt; color:black; font-family:Arial} a.aolmailheader:link    {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:visited {color:magenta; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:active  {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:hover   {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal}  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "815TL" <lawrenceaw(at)corning.com> 



I looked into this onece before and did not find any companies that would insure the combination of a Kitfox and a student pilot.  Right now I am flying without insurance.  I am not so much worried about the plane, but liability.  If, God forbid, for some reason I lose control and hit another airplane on the ramp, person, or the hangar, I would like some coverage to pay for it.   



I checked again today with two companies, and both told me I had insufficient time in type.  How the heck do they expect you to get time in type, unless you fly uninsured.  It is almost like they exect you to fly the first few hundered hours with no insurance.  If that is what it takes, fine, but I would feel better with a little coverage. 



Is there anyone that has been able to get insurace on a Kitfox as a student, or am I just stuck. 



It just seems backwards   =  

   [quote][b]

planecrazy2020(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

Andrew,



Try this company:



Gregg Ellsworth

Aviation Insurance  Resources

P.O. Box 32

Frederick, MD 21705

toll free:  1-877-247-7769

fax: 1-301-682-9793

www.AIR-PROS.com

 

His rates were better than most.



David

KF II, HKS

Hernando, MS



 On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 2:28 PM, 815TL <lawrenceaw(at)corning.com (lawrenceaw(at)corning.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "815TL" <lawrenceaw(at)corning.com (lawrenceaw(at)corning.com)>

 

 I looked into this onece before and did not find any companies that would insure the combination of a Kitfox and a student pilot.  Right now I am flying without insurance.  I am not so much worried about the plane, but liability.  If, God forbid, for some reason I lose control and hit another airplane on the ramp, person, or the hangar, I would like some coverage to pay for it.

  

 I checked again today with two companies, and both told me I had insufficient time in type.  How the heck do they expect you to get time in type, unless you fly uninsured.  It is almost like they exect you to fly the first few hundered hours with no insurance.  If that is what it takes, fine, but I would feel better with a little coverage.

  

 Is there anyone that has been able to get insurace on a Kitfox as a student, or am I just stuck.

 

 It just seems backwards to me.

 

 Andrew,

 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C

 

 

 

 

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

At 12:28 PM 2/12/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I checked again today with two companies, and both told me I had 

insufficient time in type.  How the heck do they expect you to get 

time in type, unless you fly uninsured.  It is almost like they 

exect you to fly the first few hundered hours with no insurance.  If 

that is what it takes, fine, but I would feel better with a little coverage.


	


Andrew,

         A couple of things come to mind. First, the instructor will 

be pilot-in-command. You might then fall under his liability 

insurance, or you might be able to name him as an insured party under 

your insurance. Then you fly with the instructor, logging PIC time as 

well. Before you're ready to solo you will have sufficient time in 

type to get your own insurance.

         Also, who did you try to get insurance from? I know of 

Avemco, Falcon, and AIG.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

 	  Quote: 	
		  Is there anyone that has been able to get insurace on a Kitfox as a student, or am I just stuck. 



It just seems backwards to me. 	




Andrew, Falcon is an insurance agency.  They will get you quotes from any aviation insurance companies that will cover you.  Also ask your instructor and the agency about naming your instructor as insured on your airplane while giving you instruction in it.



There are discounts form various companies for EAA and or AOPA members.  Usually worth more than the cost of membership.



Falcon Insurance Agency, Inc

EAA Phone: 1-866-647-4EAA(4322)

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

Thanks for the reply guys.  The 2 I checked with today was Avemco, and Falcon.  Avemco downright declined.  The lady from Falcon is still checking around, but it does not look good.  I have not tried AIG this time around, but I think I tried them a while back without luck.



Maybe if I am lucky, Falcon will come through for me.  If not, I will get some hours under me, and hope nothing happens until I am insurable.



Andrew

Av8r3400

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Central Wisconsin (KRRL)

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

Have you looked into a personal umbrella policy from your auto or homeowners insurance that would cover you?



I have one that covers my liability needs while flying, among other activities.

_________________
Thanks,
Av8r3400

Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
Kitfox Model IV-1050 W/912UL & Warp
YouTube Videos

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

On Thu, February 12, 2009 3:15 pm, Av8r3400 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Have you looked into a personal umbrella policy from your auto or homeowners insurance

 that would cover you?



 I have one that covers my liability needs while flying, among other activities.


	


That's a particularly good suggestion. I have done that with my home owner's policy

that covers the value of the parts during construction. My home policy is through

State Farm. I got this a long time ago and someone else on the list said State Farm

doesn't do this now.



The suggestion that Guy made about getting the plane insured with the Pilot In Command

being your instructor was certainly a reasonable sounding one. I would think that your

instructor has insurance and I'd think that it would be worth checking that his

liability specifically covers instruction time in your plane. That would cover you

during instruction but you'd still be hanging out there when you solo.



Once you've gotten cleared through solo, you should contact your instructor's

insurance company and give them a written evaluation of your instruction to date and

the limitations for flying while solo that is still under the instructor's supervision

and get that information past the agent to the actual underwriter for consideration.

That should result in getting liability coverage alone at least through complete of

your PPL training.



My experience with the trucking business when there was a coverage problem was to

submit a supervisory plan with me as the co-driver for new hires. They then approved

the insurance coverage subject to my written evaluations for 3 months. At that point

they granted normal coverage. This has to be conveyed to the underwriter for

consideration and they have the authority to make exceptions to general policy.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

You might also try USUA  (US ultralight assn.)  If you are a member C you can get insurance through them.  Jim Chuk  Avid MK IV  Mn

  

 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

 From: lawrenceaw(at)corning.com

 Date: Thu C 12 Feb 2009 15:05:39 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "815TL" <lawrenceaw(at)corning.com>

 

 Thanks for the reply guys. The 2 I checked with today was Avemco C and Falcon. Avemco downright declined. The lady from Falcon is still checking around C but it does not look good. I have not tried AIG this time around C but I think I tried them a while back without luck.

 

 Maybe if I am lucky C Falcon will come through for me. If not C I will get some hours under me C and hope nothing happens until I am insurable.

 

 Andrew

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230026#230026

 

 

 

 

 

 

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rcsfca

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 10
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

I found myself in exactly your predicament last spring. I owned the plane, had no time in type, and couldn't get insurance.



My solution was very close to what Guy Buchanan suggested, but with a twist. I went to my instructor's insurance agency and arranged for a complete policy (liability and hull damage) but named my instructor as the only pilot. I was not in the loop except as a student under the direction of my PIC instructor. I also (later) added two fellow Kitfox owners (who are experienced pilots) as named pilots on my policy. 



BTW, the insurance carrier is AIG and they had no problems at all with the way the policy was set up. Also of note is that my instructor wanted me to have my own policy on my plane (with him named) and not expect to use his policy to cover my plane or our flying in it. 



Best of luck,



Rich Cunningham

Model IV - 1200, 912UL

manceliller(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:37 am Post subject: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

 From: r66rc-matronics(at)yahoo.com

 Date: Sat C 14 Feb 2009 20:23:21 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "rcsfca" <r66rc-matronics(at)yahoo.com>

 I found myself in exactly your predicament last spring. I owned the plane C had no time in type C and couldn't get insurance.

 My solution was very close to what Guy Buchanan suggested C but with a twist. I went to my instructor's insurance agency and arranged for a complete policy (liability and hull damage) but named my instructor as the only pilot. I was not in the loop except as a student under the direction of my PIC instructor. I also (later) added two fellow Kitfox owners (who are experienced pilots) as named pilots on my policy. 

 BTW C the insurance carrier is AIG and they had no problems at all with the way the policy was set up. Also of note is that my instructor wanted me to have my own policy on my plane (with him named) and not expect to use his policy to cover my plane or our flying in it. 

 Best of luck C

 Rich Cunningham

 i have a model 2 very clean airplane i havent flown her in 2 years C i need someone to help me get current again C im in giddings texas C close to austin tx...........HELP !  manceliller(at)hotmail.com (manceliller(at)hotmail.com)

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815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox?

Thank you all again.  Falcon got back to me, and they found an underwriter that is willing to cover as soon as I have 10 hours of dual, and 10 take offs and landings.  Not as bad as I thought at $950 for the year.  I am still going to ask around at some of the suggestions you all have made, to see if I can get a better deal.



Andrew

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