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icrashrc
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In
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 Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:34 am Post subject: M3X drag strut |
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These pictures of Kolbs yellow and white M3X were recently posted here. I see a row of rivets running the length of the drag strut. I don't remember there ever being any talk of this here on the list nor is there any mention of this in the Kolb supplied building manual.
The obvious questions are;
Is it something Bryan thought needed done or is it required?
If so what rivets at what spacing?
Is there more than one row of rivets?
If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise sound piece of tubing? Thanks,
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_________________
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:04 am Post subject: M3X drag strut |
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Scott- I have two sets of mid '80's Firestar wings, and both sets have the rivets as shown. They go from the root rib to the first rib, top and bottom, spaced 3 inches apart. Mine are 5 rib wings. The rivets are 1/8" stainless.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
[quote][b]
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:05 am Post subject: M3X drag strut |
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Only necessary in the sleeved/telescoping area.
BB
On 14, Feb 2009, at 6:34 AM, icrashrc wrote:
| Quote: |
These pictures of Kolbs yellow and white M3X were recently posted
here. I see a row of rivets running the length of the drag strut. I
don't remember there ever being any talk of this here on the list
nor is there any mention of this in the Kolb supplied building manual.
The obvious questions are;
Is it something Bryan thought needed done or is it required?
If so what rivets at what spacing?
Is there more than one row of rivets?
If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an
otherwise sound piece of tubing? Thanks,
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 30196#230196
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/
kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_079_204_medium_152.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/
kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_078_181_783.jpg
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russ(at)rkiphoto.com
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: M3X drag strut |
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Isn't there a stiffener of some sort INside the tube?? U-channel or
even angle?
do not archive
On Feb 14, 2009, at 6:34 AM, icrashrc wrote:
| Quote: |
These pictures of Kolbs yellow and white M3X were recently posted
here. I see a row of rivets running the length of the drag strut. I
don't remember there ever being any talk of this here on the list
nor is there any mention of this in the Kolb supplied building manual.
The obvious questions are;
Is it something Bryan thought needed done or is it required?
If so what rivets at what spacing?
Is there more than one row of rivets?
If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an
otherwise sound piece of tubing? Thanks,
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 30196#230196
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/
kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_079_204_medium_152.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/
kolbs_yellow_planes_consturction_078_181_783.jpg
|
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:12 am Post subject: M3X drag strut |
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> If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
| Quote: | strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise
sound piece of tubing? Thanks,
--------
Scott
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Scott:
This procedure, for making up the drag struts, has been used since Ultrastar
days.
My guess would be to give it a little more strength to keep it in column by
tying all the tubes together.
I don't know what your plans and instructions look at, but understand they
are about as good as the Kolbra instructions. If so, the spacing is 3" on
each side, top and bottom, alternating the rivet holes.
john h
mkIII
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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flykolb(at)pa.net
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: M3X drag strut |
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Hi Scott,
John's guess is correct: Riveting the two tubes together makes them
stronger: It makes them stronger in compression and bending. Your concern
about the holes weakening the tubes would be correct only if exceedingly
high tension loads were imposed - but this is not the case for their
application here.
Dennis
--
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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: M3X drag strut |
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At 03:34 AM 2/14/09 -0800, you wrote:
| Quote: |
If it's not required anyone care to speculate on
strength gained, or lost buy drilling a bunch of holes thru an otherwise sound piece of tubing? Thanks,
--------
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Scott,
It is a design solution. Drag struts are loaded in compression. If you
design to the compressive load times a safety factor, the material cross
sectional area will be quite small. If you used a solid rod of this cross
sectional area or even a thin walled tube, the material would fail by
buckling when placed under the design load. The only way to reduce this
tendency is to increase the outside diameter of the drag strut. But if one
does, you end up with much more cross sectional area to handle the
compressive loads and unnecessary weight. The more efficient weight wise
way to do it is to use a thin wall tube of the correct cross sectional area
to handle the compressive loads. Then add over it another larger OD thin
wall tube to handle the buckling component.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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cspoke
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Lillian, AL
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: M3X drag strut |
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Scott,
I discovered the same thing as you. The manual does not address the drag strut rivets but I also noticed them on the Kolb demo plane. I searched and eventually did find the reference to them on page 6 of the large two page folded plan drawings. I ended up using these sheets for the majority of my building. Let me know if you do not have this sheet and I can send it to you. It specifies the spacing etc...
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Craig Spoke
Mark111 Xtra
VW Redrive
Lillian, AL
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icrashrc
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:08 am Post subject: Re: M3X drag strut |
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Thanks for all the replies. I went back and looked at all the info i was supplied and the rivets are simply not there. I don't know what Craig has that shows them but I don't have it. SS rivets spaced 3" apart, top and bottom, staggered. We can do that. Thanks again!
Scott
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