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Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

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Bearup

Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Location: American Falls, Idaho

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

Does anyone have any information on the installation of a Mitsubishi Turbo 

onto a Rotax 912 UL?

After doing an internet search, I have learned that the setup is currently 

used on the  Xenon 912 RST Gyroplane.



Thanks,

Stan B.

stan(at)justkitplanes.com

_________________
Stan Bearup
American Falls, ID
Airport Manager
www.justkitplanes.com

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
- Groucho Marx

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

Stan Bearup a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Does anyone have any information on the installation of a Mitsubishi Turbo 

 onto a Rotax 912 UL?

 After doing an internet search, I have learned that the setup is currently 

 used on the  Xenon 912 RST Gyroplane.

   


	


Stan,



Any good turbo specialist can turbocharge any engine...in a road 

vehicle. Some blow up after only a few miles.

It takes many many test bench hours and more than one knowledgeable 

specialist to achieve a *dependable* aircraft engine.

Why not sell your 912, and buy a 914 ?

Or better yet, keep your engine, and chose a better airframe to put it 

in : the little MCR 01 (or BanBi) two seater cruises at 155 kts TAS on a 

912.



Best regards,

-- 

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

Bearup

Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Location: American Falls, Idaho

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

Gilles,

Thanks for your input. What I have is a 914 engine that is minus the turbo 

and other associated 914 components. I really don't care for the 914 

electronics and automated wastegate system, as I have many friends who have 

had too many problems with the setup. For that reason, I shy away from the 

stock Rotax 914 turbo setup. Also, it is WAY overpriced. I know there are 

low compression 912 engines flying with the Mitsubishi turbo and manual 

wastegate setup, and that is what I think I want to do with this engine. I 

fly in the high mountains in the western US, and plan to use the engine in 

one of the Just Aircraft Highlanders that I build and sell.



Stan Bearup

www.justkitplanes.com

_________________
Stan Bearup
American Falls, ID
Airport Manager
www.justkitplanes.com

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
- Groucho Marx

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

Stan,

 	  Quote: 	
		    For that reason, I shy away from the 

 stock Rotax 914 turbo setup.


	


I have the feeling that turbocharching from scratch, especially an aero 

engine, is not for the faint of heart 



What exactly do you find so difficult or so unreliable in the 914 setup ?



Best regards,

-- 

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

Bearup

Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Location: American Falls, Idaho

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

"What exactly do you find so difficult or so unreliable in the 914 setup?"



Actually, I don't have any first hand experience with the 914 engines 

myself, but I have had two friends who wrecked  their airplanes, and hurt 

badly as a result of in-flight engine problems they had with the 914. One 

engine was on a Highlander, and another on an Air Cam. It is my 

understanding that the problems were both with the electronic controllers 

that are specific to the 914 engines.

_________________
Stan Bearup
American Falls, ID
Airport Manager
www.justkitplanes.com

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
- Groucho Marx

Bearup

Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Location: American Falls, Idaho

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject: Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

Here is a link to part of the 912 RST engine manual. This is the engine that 

I am looking for more information on:



http://celieraviation.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/912-rst-engine-manual.pdf

_________________
Stan Bearup
American Falls, ID
Airport Manager
www.justkitplanes.com

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
- Groucho Marx

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

Stan Bearup a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 "What exactly do you find so difficult or so unreliable in the 914 setup?"



 Actually, I don't have any first hand experience with the 914 engines 

 myself, but I have had two friends who wrecked  their airplanes, and hurt 

 badly as a result of in-flight engine problems they had with the 914. One 

 engine was on a Highlander, and another on an Air Cam. It is my 

 understanding that the problems were both with the electronic controllers 

 that are specific to the 914 engines.


	


The turbo controller unit only controls the waste gate to automatically 

prevent overboost. In case of failure, the pilot will just have to 

manually limit the boost, but the engine won't quit.

In accordance with some countries' regulation, one can start the engine 

with the turbo control servo turned off. But what will really stop the 

engine is electric power failure : the fuel supply is electically dependant.

Did your friend experienced uncontrolled overboost and blew the engine, 

or did the engine just quit, which is an indication of fuel starvation ?



I personnally have installed a Rotax 914, and am presently flying it 

without any problem. On the other hand, I provided redundant power 

supply to the fuel pumps.



Best regards,

-- 

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

Bearup

Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 12
Location: American Falls, Idaho

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject: Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

I am happy to hear that you have had good success with your 914 engine. As I 

stated earlier, I am not positive what the problems were with the 914 

engines on each of my friend's airplanes, but I know that both forced 

landings were related to engine out issues that were not caused by fuel 

starvation. These are the only people who I have known with stock 914 

engines, and both wrecked their planes due to the engine stopping in flight. 

This is why I don't want a 914 engine in stock configuration. I feel so 

strongly about it that if someone gave me one, I would likely just sell the 

engine and buy something different. I am an A&P mechanic, as well as an 

airport manager. I make a living building, restoring and selling airplanes, 

and am not concerned with my own ability to put a turbo onto a 912 engine. 

If the components needed to install an after market turbo onto a 912 are out 

there, I am sure I can make it work reliably for my application. I simply do 

not want to reinvent the wheel in doing it.

_________________
Stan Bearup
American Falls, ID
Airport Manager
www.justkitplanes.com

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."
- Groucho Marx

ch701builder(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

All,

Here is a link to a company that you might have seen before. A kit to convert a 912 to a 914.



http://www.bullyhawk.com/914kit.htm



Since most of my flying will be at 10,500 and above, I am looking into something turbo'd, but like was noted earlier, the price of a 914 is more than what I will have in my plane.



Does anybody have any other info about this website or company?



Keith

Zenith CH701 -- scratch building

N 38.9940

W 105.1305

Alt. 9,100'

**************************************

From: Stan Bearup <bearup(at)ida.net>

To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:00:20 PM

Subject: Re: Mitsubishi Turbo on a  rotax 912



 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Stan Bearup" <bearup(at)ida.net (bearup(at)ida.net)>



I am happy to hear that you have had good success with your 914 engine. As I 

stated earlier, I am not positive what the problems were with the 914 

engines on each of my friend's airplanes, but I know that both forced 

landings were related to engine out issues that were not caused by fuel 

starvation. These are the only people who I have known with stock 914 

engines, and both wrecked their planes due to the engine stopping in flight. 

This is why I don't want a 914 engine in stock configuration. I feel so 

strongly about it that if someone gave me one, I would likely just sell the 

engine and buy something different. I am an A&P mechanic, as well as an 

airport manager. I make a living building, restoring and selling airplanes, 

and am not concerned with my own           [quote][b]

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Mitsubishi Turbo on a rotax 912

Hi Stan,



Of course, everyone here has opinions and they are all entitled to them.



In the Europa crowd there are dozens of 914s flying.  The big issue

is installation with adequate cooling. Reliability has not been an issue.

Two anecdotes may be the basis of your opinion, but they do not

really inform the group here.



Do you happen to have the URLs to the NTSB factual reports?



Also, recall that the Predator UAV flies a 914 (not quite stock with

fuel injection and triple stage turbo to get to FL600)



My opinion, not well informed is that a one off design of a 3rd party

turbo would be less reliable that a factory designed and tested system

with warranty backup.

_________________
Ira N224XS

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: 914 Accidents

Hi Again Stan,



You got me curious, so I went to the NTSB site and pulled the

records for accidents involving the 914.



There are three accidents from 2000-2009

Two are fatal stall spins - pilot error, no engine problem

    NTSB Identification: DFW07LA026., NTSB Identification: MIA01LA170.

One was the famous Stemme Engine fire:

     NTSB Identification: CHI01LA216  where a fuel hose just above the

     exhaust got cooked.

In the same time period there were 1147 accident involving lycoming

and 1024 for Continentals

_________________
Ira N224XS

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