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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:04 am Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

One more thing I should point out about mine....there is no hinge in  

my t'deck, as I chose to use the one-piece domed t'deck window from  

LP Aeroplastics (John McBean sells them) and during the installation,  

the hinge is removed and the framework of the 'deck gets fabricated  

into a one-piece...non-hinged...part.  Whether or not this make it  

stiffer and therefore less susceptible to "blow-out" is debatable. I  

think the original hinged t'deck  is fine as it is if done like the  

manual calls for...on a Kitfox IV at least, because that's the only  

one I know about.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

On Feb 16, 2009, at 6:57 AM, fox5flyer wrote:



[quote] 

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>



 Good post, Lynn.  All very good points.  I had a good look at mine,  

 a S5 and same setup as the 3.  As far as I can see there is only  

 one thing that can cause that leading edge to come out and that is  

 extreme bending of the complete turtle deck itself.  That is what  

 the long stiffeners are for and after fooling around with mine for  

 a few minutes, I found that it just ain't gonna happen.  Before we  

 all start tearing things apart and reinventing the wheel, lets  

 first ensure there is a real inherent problem and not an isolated  

 incident that is based on the method of fabrication.

 Personally, I feel everyone should have a good look at theirs, but  

 I don't think it's an issue.

 Deke Morisse

 Mikado Michigan

 S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

 "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but  

 progress."

 - Joseph Joubert

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

chuckp

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Bethesda, MD

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

I just went out and measured the overlap on my Avid A and it measured 7/8”.  I got the AD from Avid while I was building, so I added aluminum strips both top and bottom to increase the overlap, which was originally only about ½”.  This has worked as advertised, as I routinely do extreme slips, doors open and closed, with no problem.    

   

Pops   

   

     

  Checked by AVG.

 2/16/2009 6:55 AM

     [quote][b]

_________________
Pops
Avid STOL N113P
Flying and grinning since 1956

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:49 am Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

It's not the double slash Paul, even

http://forums.matronics.com/files/turtle_deck_603.jpg doesn't work because

the picture is turtle_deck_132 not turtle_deck_603, which apparently does

not exist.



Bob Brennan(pedant emeritus) - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 



--

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: Re: New issue, turtle deck security

Just a thought for anyone that installs the Avid turtle deck overlap modification.  You should watch as you fold the wings the first time to be sure the aluminum overlap extension doesn't dig into the top of the wing as you swing it back.  You might need to put a slight upward bend on each rear corner so the aluminum will slide up on the wing fabric.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:59 am Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

Tom C Thanks for the heads up on the turtle deck extension.

 Do not archive



Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL





 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: New issue C turtle deck security

 From: nahsikhs(at)elltel.net

 Date: Mon C 16 Feb 2009 07:34:52 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 

 Just a thought for anyone that installs the Avid turtle deck overlap modification. You should watch as you fold the wings the first time to be sure the aluminum overlap extension doesn't dig into the top of the wing as you swing it back. You might need to put a slight upward bend on each rear corner so the aluminum will slide up on the wing fabric.

 

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax C 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg C WA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230503#230503

 

 

 

 

 ======================

&gt==================
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: Re: New issue, turtle deck security

This on may be a lengthy post:



Lynn, I as well have started to question the competency of the builder of this plane.  It is a fantastic plane but a few details just seem to be neglected.  Notice the omission of the flaperon control horn bushing on the turtle deck.  Unfortunately details like this are not apparent until you read the assembly manual.  I am overall pleased with this plane but I suspect that over the years I will find a few things that upset me.



So now on to the turtle deck, I read the assembly manual and my turtle deck and wind shield appear to be constructed per the manual, which by the way only calls for a 1/4" overlap of the 'deck.  This kit was purchased in 1990 and per the instructions there is only 7 DZUS fasteners.  And there are stiffeners full length.  What I found is that CF-46 Skylight Angle is flexible and can be moved forward.  I have also noticed that nothing secures the green house to the fuselage and so in flight the lift over the fuselage pulls the window up and separates it from the root ribs, subsequently this shortens the overlap on the turtle deck.  I believe that this may be what was the biggest contributing factor to the 'deck popping out.



So for now I am planning on doing the Avid mod.  Any other observations or input is appreciated.  Has anyone done anything to secure the lexan to the top of the fuse?  I think that would be the greatest fix but I am not sure the lexan could handle it.

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_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:30 am Post subject: Re: New issue, turtle deck security

 	  Tom Jones wrote: 	
		  Just a thought for anyone that installs the Avid turtle deck overlap modification.  You should watch as you fold the wings the first time to be sure the aluminum overlap extension doesn't dig into the top of the wing as you swing it back.  You might need to put a slight upward bend on each rear corner so the aluminum will slide up on the wing fabric. 	




VERY good point, and one I did not think about.  The first time I folded the wings, it was apparent that it was going to hit.  I cut each side at about a 45 deg. angle and rounded the corners so it would not hit.  GREAT catch!



Whurly, on my avid, it has a partial rib across the center of the skylight (greenhouse) that has rivets in it to keep the screen from ballooning up just as you have shown on the drawing you attached.  May be an easy fix for you to add it if you so desire.  I can get a good pic of how Avid did it if you are interested.  The only drawback to it, is now I cant hang my head set over the center cross bar like I can on my Brothers KF II.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

At 09:36 AM 2/16/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Has anyone done anything to secure the lexan to the top of the 

fuse?  I think that would be the greatest fix but I am not sure the 

lexan could handle it.


	


James,

         You mean it's not secured AT ALL? Mine is secured on the 

perimeter, about every 2" with screws into floating nut plates. 

There's a set of ribs on the sides, and the aluminum angle in the 

back. Down the fore and aft centerline there's a "T", but the 

skylight just rests on it; there are no fasteners.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: Re: New issue, turtle deck security

 	  WurlyBird wrote: 	
		  This on may be a lengthy post:



Lynn, I as well have started to question the competency of the builder of this plane.  It is a fantastic plane but a few details just seem to be neglected.  Notice the omission of the flaperon control horn bushing on the turtle deck.  Unfortunately details like this are not apparent until you read the assembly manual.  I am overall pleased with this plane but I suspect that over the years I will find a few things that upset me.



So now on to the turtle deck, I read the assembly manual and my turtle deck and wind shield appear to be constructed per the manual, which by the way only calls for a 1/4" overlap of the 'deck.  This kit was purchased in 1990 and per the instructions there is only 7 DZUS fasteners.  And there are stiffeners full length.  What I found is that CF-46 Skylight Angle is flexible and can be moved forward.  I have also noticed that nothing secures the green house to the fuselage and so in flight the lift over the fuselage pulls the window up and separates it from the root ribs, subsequently this shortens the overlap on the turtle deck.  I believe that this may be what was the biggest contributing factor to the 'deck popping out.



So for now I am planning on doing the Avid mod.  Any other observations or input is appreciated.  Has anyone done anything to secure the lexan to the top of the fuse?  I think that would be the greatest fix but I am not sure the lexan could handle it. 	


I think you have have just figured out where your flutter came from... without the bearing blocks in the turtle deck, I would put money on it that the flutter started right there.  It is VERY specific in the Avid manual to put them in and not doing so can lead to flutter.  It is also specific that it needs to be touching on the top not letting it flop around at all.

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

On Mon, February 16, 2009 6:48 am, Bob Brennan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 It's not the double slash Paul, even

 http://forums.matronics.com/files/turtle_deck_603.jpg doesn't work because

 the picture is turtle_deck_132 not turtle_deck_603, which apparently does

 not exist.


	


Oops, my bad. I at least noticed that the link was wrong in the e-mail and got the

correct one from the forum. I've seen this problem happen before too. I think Matt

Dralle out to upgrade to the latest version of phpBB. It's running 2.0 and version 3

with a lot of bug fixes and enhancements is out now.

[quote]

 Bob Brennan(pedant emeritus) - N717GB

 ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa



 --

_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

Omigod, yes, there should be fasteners all along the butt ribs to  

hold the skylight/greenhouse down...at least on a IV, and I'd think  

on a III as well. My plans call for:

"If you're certain it's positioned properly (square at the back edge  

and .4" aft of the #52903 spacer), lay out, drill #30 holes and cleco  

along the butat ribs using a 2" spacing 1/4" in from the capstrip  

inner edge."



The #52903 spacer is the CF-24 spacer. So Skystar only allowed for  

0.4" of skylight overlapping the t'deck. But the key to this whole  

scenario is the screwing down, or riveting down, of the skylight/ 

greenhouse to the butt ribs. I can't believe this was not done. I  

just re-read my instructions for mounting the windshield, and  

although Skystar tells you to drill and cleco along the butt ribs,  

they don't tell you to go ahead and actually do the riveting...DUH!  

Again, I was concerned with all the problems that the group was  

having with windshields cracking and crazing, and elected to install  

nutplates and machine screws along the butt ribs. A

picture is below...this picture is rotated 90 degrees clockwise.





Another question, James....does your plane have the center rib? This  

is called the #27005 Skylight Rib, and because it doesn't have a  

corresponding CF-XX number, it may have been a Model IV and later  

addition/option. This is just a support for the skylight as it is not  

riveted to the skylight.

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the reason for the  

'deck popping out.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:36 PM, WurlyBird wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>



 This on may be a lengthy post:



 Lynn, I as well have started to question the competency of the  

 builder of this plane.  It is a fantastic plane but a few details  

 just seem to be neglected.  Notice the omission of the flaperon  

 control horn bushing on the turtle deck.  Unfortunately details  

 like this are not apparent until you read the assembly manual.  I  

 am overall pleased with this plane but I suspect that over the  

 years I will find a few things that upset me.



 So now on to the turtle deck, I read the assembly manual and my  

 turtle deck and wind shield appear to be constructed per the  

 manual, which by the way only calls for a 1/4" overlap of the  

 'deck.  This kit was purchased in 1990 and per the instructions  

 there is only 7 DZUS fasteners.  And there are stiffeners full  

 length.  What I found is that CF-46 Skylight Angle is flexible and  

 can be moved forward.  I have also noticed that nothing secures the  

 green house to the fuselage and so in flight the lift over the  

 fuselage pulls the window up and separates it from the root ribs,  

 subsequently this shortens the overlap on the turtle deck.  I  

 believe that this may be what was the biggest contributing factor  

 to the 'deck popping out.



 So for now I am planning on doing the Avid mod.  Any other  

 observations or input is appreciated.  Has anyone done anything to  

 secure the lexan to the top of the fuse?  I think that would be the  

 greatest fix but I am not sure the lexan could handle it.



 --------

 James

 Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop

 4 hrs of instruction and  climbing (I solo tomorrow)

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: New issue, turtle deck security

Again one of those things that you just don't realize unless you get to see a good KF example for comparison, and then there is the manual, which admittedly I misunderstood.  As you can see in the pictures the green house is secured to aluminum strips along the top of the butt ribs.  From top to bottom it goes; rivet, nylon washer, lexan, self adhesive felt strip, aluminum bar, other end of rivet.  This sits on another strip of adhesive backed felt on top of the cap strip.  There is a center rib but it is not secured to the lexan, it has a felt strip on it as well as per the instruction manual.  i suppose this was the builders idea of making the window easy to switch out instead of using screws like you Lynn.  It looks like I am going to be grounded until I can get a new piece of lexan.  At this point I think if I completely replace the lexan and secure it properly I will be in good shape.  I will probably increase the overhang a little since I will be replacing it anyway.  Looks like the solo and rating will be waiting a little longer.  This sucks but it will also give me time to get those bushings made and installed.  And to think, we bought an already built plane so we could spend more time flying then building.

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_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

At 12:25 PM 2/16/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  As you can see in the pictures the green house is secured to 

aluminum strips along the top of the butt ribs.  From top to bottom 

it goes; rivet, nylon washer, lexan, self adhesive felt strip, 

aluminum bar, other end of rivet.  This sits on another strip of 

adhesive backed felt on top of the cap strip.


	


         Man that's weird. And I'd say it's definitely what caused 

the lift. If your butt ribs aren't yet drilled you could probably get 

away with re-using the skylight. Just set the Lexan down onto the 

felt on top of the butt ribs and match drill. Be careful, though. I 

had a lot of trouble getting the nut plates to sit perpendicular to 

the skylight due to the way the butt ribs were made. There was a bit 

of a fillet between the rib cap and rib. I had to Dremel a little 

flat pad for each one. It was a real pain with the ribs already in place.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: New issue, turtle deck security

Hey Lynn, are those 6-32 anchor nuts you used?  How did you go about attaching them?  I have ordered a new piece of lexan and I think it might be best to attach it like you did since if i ever work out all the bugs I might keep this plane for a while.

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

James,

  

 On my Model 2 the lexan overlaps the turtledeck about 5/8". Never had any problems with it but it is attached to butt ribs and rear carry-through tube as specified. Currently attached with sheet metal screws every 2 inches but when I replace the lexan (next Winter probably) I'm considering rivnuts and machine screws in the butt ribs.

  

 Marco Menezes N99KX

 Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch



--- On Sun, 2/15/09, WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>

Subject: Re: New issue, turtle deck security

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 2:58 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "WurlyBird"

<james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>



I re-read it two more times, everything is indicating that the minimum required

1 1/4" is measured from the front of FC-3.  Do you have 1 1/4" of

lexan that overlaps the turtle deck?  Can I get a quick poll on this from a few

people?  I can certainly see that the extra would help keep everything together.



--------

James

Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop

4 hrs of instruction and  climbing (I solo tomorrow)





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 30377#230377





Attachments: 



http://forums.matronics.com//files/avid_clip_189.jpg



	
	


         [quote][b]

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

On my Avid B the lexan was fastened with large headed aluminum pop rivits.  It was that way when I got it and 

 had the same windshield for years with no cracking around the rivits.  My MK IV was fastened with sheetmetal screws when I bought it and that worked okey also C although C one screw had a habit of trying to back out over time.  Last summer when I installed the lexan on my Kitfox 4 kit C I used 1/2" X #6 

 SS machine screws with nyloc nuts.  I had some pan head screws allready that I used C but if I would have needed to buy some C I would have bought the truss head type screws as those heads are much bigger in diameter.  Just remember that one needs to make sure the hole in the lexan is larger than the rivit or screw to allow for expansion of the lexan without cracking.  Seems like lots of different ways to fasten a windshield that work.  Jim Chuk  Avid MK IV.  MN

   

 Date: Mon C 16 Feb 2009 20:56:15 -0800

From: msm_9949(at)yahoo.com

Subject: Re: Re: New issue C turtle deck security

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

     James C

  

 On my Model 2 the lexan overlaps the turtledeck about 5/8". Never had any problems with it but it is attached to butt ribs and rear carry-through tube as specified. Currently attached with sheet metal screws every 2 inches but when I replace the lexan (next Winter probably) I'm considering rivnuts and machine screws in the butt ribs.

  

 Marco Menezes N99KX

 Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch



--- On Sun C 2/15/09 C WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>

Subject: Re: New issue C turtle deck security

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday C February 15 C 2009 C 2:58 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "WurlyBird"

<james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>



I re-read it two more times C everything is indicating that the minimum required

1 1/4" is measured from the front of FC-3.  Do you have 1 1/4" of

lexan that overlaps the turtle deck?  Can I get a quick poll on this from a few

people?  I can certainly see that the extra would help keep everything together.



--------

James

Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop

4 hrs of instruction and  climbing (I solo tomorrow)





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230377#230377





Attachments: 



http://forums.matronics.com//files/avid_clip_189.jpg



	
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  



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Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.  Check it out.  [quote][b]

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: Re: New issue, turtle deck security

 	  WurlyBird wrote: 	
		  Hey Lynn, are those 6-32 anchor nuts you used?  How did you go about attaching them?  I have ordered a new piece of lexan and I think it might be best to attach it like you did since if i ever work out all the bugs I might keep this plane for a while. 	




Why not just drill the rivets out, hold it in place and drill through the root ribs and use the windshield you have?  You could have that one fixed and flying in a couple hours.



I have replaced mine twice.. once when I first got it and once after the first flight... well and back half after the third flight due to a gas leak out of the header tank vent that Fed up the skylight.  Took about 20 minutes to drill the rivets out, an hour to cut new windshield and about an hour to put the new one back on with 2 of us.  Is your screen cracking or is there another reason to change it to a new one?

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:01 am Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

I'm pretty sure they were 10-32's...yeah, way overkill...no wait, now  

I remember why I went with 10-32's..(drum roll)....because the heads  

were larger in proportion to the body size (of the AN-526 machine  

screws), therefore I could open up the holes in the skylight to that  

that LP Aeroplastics said they should be, and still be comfortable  

that the head was going to be fully covering the hole. For some  

reason...at that time...I felt that a 6-32 or 8-32 wouldn't do that.  

I used the AN-526 machine screws and K1000 anchor nuts/nut plates.  

This picture I sent yesterday shows the flat head AN426 solid rivets  

that I used. I had to order about 20 5/32"...black...clecos to grip  

the anchor nuts so I didn't have to use a bolt through the anchor nut  

for temporary holding.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 16, 2009, at 6:40 PM, WurlyBird wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>



 Hey Lynn, are those 6-32 anchor nuts you used?  How did you go  

 about attaching them?  I have ordered a new piece of lexan and I  

 think it might be best to attach it like you did since if i ever  

 work out all the bugs I might keep this plane for a while.



 --------

 James

 Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop

 4 hrs of instruction and  climbing (I solo tomorrow)





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 30579#230579

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:10 am Post subject: New issue, turtle deck security

I'm wondering how safe it would be to just install a machine screw in  

every other space between the existing rivets?

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive

On Feb 16, 2009, at 5:32 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 12:25 PM 2/16/2009, you wrote:

> As you can see in the pictures the green house is secured to  

> aluminum strips along the top of the butt ribs.  From top to  

> bottom it goes; rivet, nylon washer, lexan, self adhesive felt  

> strip, aluminum bar, other end of rivet.  This sits on another  

> strip of adhesive backed felt on top of the cap strip.

         Man that's weird. And I'd say it's definitely what caused  

 the lift. If your butt ribs aren't yet drilled you could probably  

 get away with re-using the skylight. Just set the Lexan down onto  

 the felt on top of the butt ribs and match drill. Be careful,  

 though. I had a lot of trouble getting the nut plates to sit  

 perpendicular to the skylight due to the way the butt ribs were  

 made. There was a bit of a fillet between the rib cap and rib. I  

 had to Dremel a little flat pad for each one. It was a real pain  

 with the ribs already in place.

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: New issue, turtle deck security

Well here is an update that is pretty good news, well at least I now know the builder was not a complete moron.  It seems the green house lexan was in fact installed into the butt ribs, however the rivets were simple secured into the wood and they seemed to work their way out.  I plan to use washers for backing if I use rivets to secure the new lexan.  I am considering using screws instead.  I noticed that the manual calls for aluminum rivets for this assembly, I assume this means that AN hardware would not be necessary and it would be no issue to just use some nice SS hardware.

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

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