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aerobat
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Posts: 21
Location: UK
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 Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:52 am Post subject: Latest from Zenair Europe |
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Here is a link to the latest Zenair Europe news, includes letter sent to UK owners and the designers reply.
http://www.zenairulm.com/News/index_files/Page958.htm
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psm(at)att.net
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:12 am Post subject: Latest from Zenair Europe |
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Thank you for posting that information.
I wish I knew how to interpret all the changes and responses
discussed in the two letters. I understand what was exactly stated,
but I don't know what XL variations (dual control, piano hinge, etc.)
were considered.
I feel the notion of aileron flutter is out of the question for
hinge-less XLs. On the other hand, I don't know how the reinforced
wing attach brackets might play with the history of in-flight wing
attachment failures - even in the USA. I hope Chris will clear all
this up for us when these flight tests are completed and the changes published.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 01:52 AM 2/17/2009, you wrote:
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Terry Phillips
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: Latest from Zenair Europe |
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Paul
There have been at least two instances of aileron flutter in hinge-less
601XL's.
In both of these incidents, the pilots were very experienced and their
descriptions are graphic and detailed. I have just obtained permission to
post their descriptions (w/o names or identifying info) to the ZBAG file
section. See:
http://tinyurl.com/bthuc9
&
http://tinyurl.com/djehdw
You probably need to join the ZBAG forum to access the files, but that is
painless. I strongly recommend that all 601XL and 650 builders read these
descriptions. After you do, I think you will agree with me that it's not
wise to count on hinge-less ailerons to prevent the occurrence of flutter
in your 601XL.
Terry
At 03:12 AM 2/17/2009 -0800, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
| Quote: | Thank you for posting that information.
I wish I knew how to interpret all the changes and responses discussed in
the two letters. I understand what was exactly stated, but I don't know
what XL variations (dual control, piano hinge, etc.) were considered.
I feel the notion of aileron flutter is out of the question for hinge-less
XLs. On the other hand, I don't know how the reinforced wing attach
brackets might play with the history of in-flight wing attachment failures
- even in the USA. I hope Chris will clear all this up for us when these
flight tests are completed and the changes published.
Paul
XL getting close
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Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings. |
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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: Latest from Zenair Europe |
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Hello Paul,
Just ask yourself this question(s): How many hours (total to date) the 601XL Demo (the white and red one) has?
Try to imagine the amount of demo flights with prospects every year, also imagine the long XCountry flights to Flyins and Airshows ALL over USA, under most VFR conditions, They sure had even gone though some severe turbulence.
Do you think that they will continue with this dayly rutines if they had doubts about the design, As Mr Heintz says in his letter, now is the most tested airplane in its class.
This "changes" I think are only for them (UK), las century aviation history knows that UK aviation is "like a spoiled child" needs special treatment only for them... not even ultralights are the same as in the rest of Europe or the world... Go figure.
Think of this: I am sure that if anyone has fear to drive, even if he or she .drives a Hummer or a 2 seater little Smart, will be terrified to drive in any of them.
Are you fear to drive your car? How many fatalities the model of car you drive has? Does this makes it unsafe for you to drive it? Needs special mods from the Car Factory for you to drive it tomorrow? Or your car needs only to be driven and mantained by you with normal care to avoid an accident?
Nothing but our own mind can give us self confidence.
I hope and pray, that never be another aircraft accident of any kind in the World! Reality is ther is no waranty. But I will still fly as much as possible to enjoy my hobby.
Aviation, Comercial, Genral or Sport, will never be "cero accidents" ever! is human to fail, once in a while.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
701 912S 235 hrs.
Building 601XL Jab 3300 (no fold wings option 
--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Latest from Zenair Europe
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 6:12 AM
| Quote: | --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
Thank you for posting that information.
I wish I knew how to interpret all the changes and responses discussed in the
two letters. I understand what was exactly stated, but I don't know what XL
variations (dual control, piano hinge, etc.) were considered.
I feel the notion of aileron flutter is out of the question for hinge-less XLs.
On the other hand, I don't know how the reinforced wing attach brackets
might play with the history of in-flight wing attachment failures - even in the
USA. I hope Chris will clear all this up for us when these flight tests are
completed and the changes published.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 01:52 AM 2/17/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: | Here is a link to the latest Zenair Europe news, includes letter sent to
UK owners and the designers reply.
|
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: Latest from Zenair Europe |
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Very wise words from "South of the Border". Thanks Gary !
--
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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: Latest from Zenair Europe |
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I would second opinions that flutter may have actually been suspected or
felt, seen or whatever. I feel this is so rare that it is hardly a good
item for consideration
as applies to the wing folding issue. The conditions just don't match
up to flutter as reported. Having seen the center section spar damage,
it was apparent that the
principal failure progressed from inboard and somewhere between the wing
attachments to the fuselage. Cause should be other than flutter though.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Sabrina wrote:
| Quote: |
"There have been at least two instances of aileron flutter in hinge-less 601XL's."
Terry, that is a strong statement.
Maybe I misread your two posts, but neither pilot saw aileron flutter, both noticed wing flutter, the later does not necessitate the former... correct?
No doubt one pilot has an opinion it was aileron flutter, but he "did not observe movement of the aileron relative to the wing" the other "did not notice" such movement either.
Wings can flutter because over overspeed, improperly torqued spar bolts, and many other ways without it pointing to aileron flutter. If the cables were loose on a first flight, maybe something else was loose too. The warm air would have tightened not loosened the cables.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 30759#230759
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