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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

Recently my wife has been interested in learning to fly.

She would probably do her 40 hours and get her certificate

but then may or may not ever fly alone from that point on.

She would just love to do it, and be able to do it if she

wants to.  It opens the doors, anyway.



So I checked in to ask about insurance effects of things

like:  Adding another pilot with 200hrs in RV-10's.

Adding my dad who would have over 300 hours TT, just in

case some day I would consider letting him fly it.

Adding my wife for either training, or just post-training,

so that she can be listed.



See the bottom of the email for final comments, but...



What I found was:



"It should not cost to add a 200 make and model pilot"



Therefore, if I called and said I wanted Scott to be listed

on my policy, probably wouldn't cost me a penny.



----



"Their min pilot requirement is PVT 300 total hours,

he would need 5 hours of dual."



So that portion of the reply means, yeah, I can add my

dad to the policy, but he needs to for sure have 300 hours

total time, and needs 5 hours of dual. (or with AIG,

250 but the dual from Mike or Alex).



----



And regarding my wife:

"Your training plan for your wife sounds good but

unfortunately Global would not add your wife until she

is a PVT pilot with 300 total hours, this is their

minimum pilot requirements for this aircraft.  AIG is

PVT 250 Total with IFR and must have dual with Mike

Seager or Alex DeDominicis."



"I could try another company with her having 100 total

hours but the premium will come in higher then your

current premium with Global." (I say...no sh1t) 



-----



So this is just put out there to illustrate the

importance of piloting time prior to insuring your

RV-10.  Notice that AIG wants 250+Instrument

rating.  Global wants 300.  Yeah, you may find

insurance out there for someone with less hours,

but I've basically come to the conclusion that

there is no way that I can bother to add my wife

to the policy until she has at least 100 if not

300 hours.  For someone who's building the RV-10

to use for instruction....who wants to actually

get their pilot cert in it, or who JUST got their

pilot cert and now wants a plane, I really think

you should consider buying a spam can for 2-3

years, and flying 100 hrs per year first.  It will

help your rates.  Or at least plan to build a

pretty trimmed down RV-10, that doesn't cost

a fortune, and just don't insure the hull for

a few years.  Insurance is going to be a tough

topic for I'm sure a couple hundred of you builders

at least, so I figured it's good to keep the

dialog open.

Now, for those of us flying, it's OUR job to FLY SAFE

and not have any claims.  Remember that we may be

"nice guys" (or maybe not...) to the RV-10 community,

but we're certainly not being good to our fellow

builders if we do stupid and reckless things and

cause claims, or especially death, in our model

of aircraft.



-- 

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

Tim,

	I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8

pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1 to fly so I

purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went

through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he

trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them

off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely

comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their

certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and

associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have been

really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I

believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose

too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded).

While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi

person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your own

plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training

in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs

of a trainer. 



Robin

STILL in paint

Do Not Archive



--

etekberg(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's.  I insured it as a student pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo.  I wouldn't think a -10 would be any more difficult (but what do I know?).  I would try a different company.

 

Eric

do not archive



On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com (robin1(at)mrmoisture.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com (robin1(at)mrmoisture.com)>

 

 Tim,

         I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8

 pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1 to fly so I

 purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went

 through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he

 trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them

 off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely

 comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their

 certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and

 associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have been

 really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I

 believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose

 too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded).

 While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi

 person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your own

 plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training

 in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs

 of a trainer.

 

 Robin

 STILL in paint

 Do Not Archive

 



 --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

Eric,



I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably

easier.  But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP

is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market.  I just

had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds

like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK

at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that

they would actually cover her.   No idea on rates but likely

real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane

for training.  And, they found one company that would cover a

100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000

additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).



I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this

in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going

to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.

That's probably the biggest killer.



I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and

then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause

that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least

100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.

You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.



It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots

start shopping for insurance.  So far most people have

at least had a couple hundred hours of time.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Eric Ekberg wrote:

[quote] I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's.  I insured it as a student 

 pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); 

 only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo.  I wouldn't think a -10 

 would be any more difficult (but what do I know?).  I would try a 

 different company.

 

 Eric

 do not archive

 

 On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com 

 <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> wrote:

 

     

     <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>>

 

     Tim,

            I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8

     pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1 to fly so I

     purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went

     through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he

     trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them

     off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely

     comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their

     certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and

     associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have been

     really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I

     believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose

     too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded).

     While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi

     person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your own

     plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training

     in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs

     of a trainer.

 

     Robin

     STILL in paint

     Do Not Archive

 

     --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:46 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

Robin,

I think that's probably one of the best ways to go about it

if someone has the means.  I could buy one but right now

I'd have to foot the entire bill for just my wife to use it.

There are a couple people from work who plan to start lessons

in the next few months, but they wouldn't be able to participate

in a plane purchase, so it's not worth extending myself

that far.  But I think the idea is perfect.



My previous thought was to build a Sonex or something,

because then I'd at least have a little aerobatic

capable plane to fly on the cheap if I wanted. Too bad

I'd much rather have an RV-7 though, and then the

insurance and building costs really start to bite.



Now, if you need a place to store that 150 for

a while, just let me know. I could easily get

a hangar and store it for you for no charge...other

than borrowing the plane. 



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Robin Marks wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Tim,

 	I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8

 pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1 to fly so I

 purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went

 through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he

 trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them

 off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely

 comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their

 certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and

 associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have been

 really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I

 believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose

 too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded).

 While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi

 person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your own

 plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training

 in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs

 of a trainer. 

 

 Robin

 STILL in paint

 Do Not Archive

 

 --

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

I got a similar quote; my Global quote was $2700-3050 (4000TT+, CFII, A&P,

100 in type) depending on hull (150 or 175); adding my 250tt VFR buddy was

$900-1000 extra. 



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

It will be real interesting when I go to get my poke in the ass. Over seven hundred hours in a high performance sailplane and probably less then 100 hour in power. 

  

 Like I said C bend over for the tax man and then call in his friend Gieco. Wonder what they would charge me if I flew it without an engine.

  

 JOhn G. 

  

 One hurdle after another C when is the end of the race?

  

 Sorry for the sarcasm

 

[quote] Date: Wed C 18 Feb 2009 15:41:14 -0600

 From: Tim(at)MyRV10.com

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

 

 --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>

 

 Eric C

 

 I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably

 easier. But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP

 is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market. I just

 had another couple emails with the insurance agent C and it sounds

 like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK

 at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that

 they would actually cover her. No idea on rates but likely

 real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane

 for training. And C they found one company that would cover a

 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000

 additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).

 

 I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this

 in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going

 to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.

 That's probably the biggest killer.

 

 I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and

 then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause

 that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least

 100 hours) C she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.

 You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.

 

 It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots

 start shopping for insurance. So far most people have

 at least had a couple hundred hours of time.

 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

 

 

 Eric Ekberg wrote:

 > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's. I insured it as a student 

 > pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); 

 > only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo. I wouldn't think a -10 

 > would be any more difficult (but what do I know?). I would try a 

 > different company.

 > 

 > Eric

 > do not archive

 > 

 > On Tue C Feb 17 C 2009 at 5:02 PM C Robin Marks <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com 

 > <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> wrote:

 > 

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robin Marks"

 > <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>>

 > 

 > Tim C

 > I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8

 > pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1 to fly so I

 > purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went

 > through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he

 > trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them

 > off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely

 > comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their

 > certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and

 > associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have been

 > really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I

 > believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose

 > too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded).

 > While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi

 > person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your own

 > plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training

 > in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs

 > of a trainer.

 > 

 > Robin

 > STILL in paint

 > Do Not Archive

 > 

 > --

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:17 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most people have

at least had a couple hundred hours of time".  My objection is you using the word "interesting".  It's not at all interesting, it's a total pain in the ass.  These insurance companies have gone bonkers.  They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10 hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the kicker was;  if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me  for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year.   And this was the only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!

 Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.

 Just kiddin' ya Tim.

 Don McDonald

 #40636

 BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.

--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:



 [quote]From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Subject: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM



[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>  Eric,  I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably easier.  But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market.  I just had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that they would actually cover her.   No idea on rates but likely real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane for training.  And, they found one company that would cover a 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000 additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).  I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2. That's probably the biggest killer.  I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot. You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.  It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most people have at least had a couple hundred hours of time.  Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive   Eric Ekberg wrote: > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's.  I insured it as a student pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo.  I wouldn't think a -10 would be any more difficult (but what do I know?).  I would try a different company. >  > Eric > do not archive >  > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> wrote: >  >     --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" >     <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> >  >     Tim, >            I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8 >     pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1 to fly so I >     purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went >     through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he >     trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them >     off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely >     comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their >     certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and >     associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have been >     really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I >     believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose >     too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded). >     While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi >     person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your own >     plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training >     in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs >     of a trainer. >  >     Robin >     STILL in paint >     Do Not Archive >  >     --

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

doctornigel

Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Indian Harbour Beach, FL

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

One other option, get your CFI and have your wife log time with you while in your RV-10.   A cheap way to build total time to reduce insurance costs.

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

One other thing; be sure and get your high performance  endorsement along the way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition training in  the Phoenix area but after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject of the  high performance endorsement surfaced. I was told that I could not sign a HP  endorsement as a part of the transition because that could be accomplished in  certified aircraft (even though a person will not be considered proficient in an  RV10 without the instruction for it.). Upon hearing that I decided that I  don't need to do this and canned the paperwork

  

 COM CFII A&P.



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don  McDonald

Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:14 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with  low-time pilots on the policy

 

                   Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and        comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph        below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time        pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most people have

at        least had a couple hundred hours of time".  My objection is you using        the word "interesting".  It's not at all interesting, it's a total        pain in the ass.  These insurance companies have gone bonkers.         They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of        takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted        another 10 hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but        the kicker was;  if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I        must hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me        for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year.   And this was        the only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!

       Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no        time.

       Just kiddin' ya Tim.

       Don McDonald

       #40636

       BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.

---        On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>        wrote:



       [quote]From:          Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Subject: Re: Insuring an          RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

To:          rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41          PM



[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>  Eric,  I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably easier.  But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market.  I just had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that they would actually cover her.   No idea on rates but likely real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane for training.  And, they found one company that would cover a 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000 additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).  I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2. That's probably the biggest killer.  I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot. You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.  It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most people have at least had a couple hundred hours of time.  Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive   Eric Ekberg wrote: > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's.  I insured it as a student pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo.  I wouldn't think a -10 would be any more difficult (but what do I know?).  I would try a different company. >  > Eric > do not archive >  > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> wrote: >  >     --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" >     <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> >  >     Tim, >            I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8 >     pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1 to fly so I >     purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We went >     through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he >     trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them >     off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely >     comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their >     certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and >     associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have been >     really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I >     believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose >     too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded). >     While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi >     person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your own >     plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training >     in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership costs >     of a trainer. >  >     Robin >     STILL in paint >     Do Not Archive >  >     --

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

I didn't think the  HP endorsement was applicable to experimentals..pardon my ignorance if I'm off base on that..Rick Sked40185

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

From:  "David McNeill" 

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:47:33 -0700

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: RV10-List: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

One other thing; be sure and get your high = performance=20 endorsement along the way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition = training in=20 the Phoenix area but after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject = of the=20 high performance endorsement surfaced. I was told that I could not sign = a HP=20 endorsement as a part of the transition because that could be = accomplished in=20 certified aircraft (even though a person will not be considered = proficient in an=20 RV10 without the instruction for it.). Upon hearing that I decided = that I=20 don't need to do this and canned the paperwork

COM CFII A&P.

From: = owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com=20 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don=20 McDonald

Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:14 = PM

To:=20 rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Insuring an = RV-10 with=20 low-time pilots on the policy

                  Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write = ups and=20       comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last = paragraph=20       below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some = low-time=20       pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most people = have

at=20       least had a couple hundred hours of time".  My objection is = you using=20       the word "interesting".  It's not at all interesting, it's a = total=20       pain in the ass.  These insurance companies have gone = bonkers. =20       They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific = number of=20       takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they = wanted=20       another 10 hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad = either, but=20       the kicker was;  if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the = plane, I=20       must hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would = insure me=20       for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year.   And = this was=20       the only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!

       Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or = no=20       time.

       Just kiddin' ya Tim.

       Don McDonald

       #40636

       BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on = Sat.

---=20       On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>=20       wrote:

       From:=20         Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Subject: Re: RV10-List: = Insuring an=20         RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

To:=20         rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, = 1:41=20         PM

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson = <Tim(at)myrv10.com>  Eric,  I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably easier.  But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market.  I just had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that they would actually cover her.   No idea on rates but likely real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane for training.  And, they found one company that would cover a 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000 additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).  I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2. That's probably the biggest killer.  I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot. You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.  It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most people have at least had a couple hundred hours of time.  Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive   Eric Ekberg wrote: > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's.  I insured it as a = student pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); = only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo.  I wouldn't think a -10 would = be any more difficult (but what do I know?).  I would try a different = company. >=20 > Eric > do not archive >=20 > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks = <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> wrote: >=20 >     --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" >     <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com = <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> >=20 >     Tim, >            I have a business partner that came from a flying family = (8 >     pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1 to = fly so I >     purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. = We went >     through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before = he >     trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to = handing them >     off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely >     comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their >     certification went well. I then let a number of other friends = and >     associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations = have been >     really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this = purchase. I >     believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect = to lose >     too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded). >     While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a = multi >     person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in = your own >     plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training >     in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total = ownership costs >     of a trainer. >=20 >     Robin >     STILL in paint >     Do Not Archive >=20 >     --

nlewis(at)wildblue.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

whew - I'm glad I didn't see this thread a week ago, or I might have 

chickened out.  I just ordered our -10 empennage last friday (and thanks, 

folks, for the advice!), and here I am with six hours in my logbook and my 

wife hasn't started.



ah well - it's gotta be cheaper than building, month for month, right?



---

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

What a crock, typical SDL FSDO! I have yet to figure out what the

"big" deal is about HP endorsement. I've flown both Aztec 250 and a

Mooney 231. Neither had the need for rudder nor acceleration that my

200 hp(+/- 5%) Mooney has, because of their greater weight. They

didn't land much different either. Based on prior flight in the Aztec

I'm grandfathered for HP anyway.

What the heck would you put in a syllabus to "train" someone for HP

endorsement that already has complex endorsement? Be aware of extra P

factor on takeoff and extra potential sink rate on approach?



On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 8:47 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007(at)cox.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   One other thing; be sure and get your high performance endorsement along the

 way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition training in the Phoenix area but

 after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject of the high performance

 endorsement surfaced. I was told that I could not sign a HP endorsement as a

 part of the transition because that could be accomplished in certified

 aircraft (even though a person will not be considered proficient in an RV10

 without the instruction for it.). Upon hearing that I decided that I don't

 need to do this and canned the paperwork



 COM CFII A&P.

 ________________________________

 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

Don't worry, when you feel bad about OUR insurance, just go browse

the discussions about getting insurance for you Lancair kit.

It will make you feel MUCH better about whatever your situation

is when you build an RV-10.  The comparison is astounding.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying



Nate Lewis wrote:

[quote] 

 

 whew - I'm glad I didn't see this thread a week ago, or I might have 

 chickened out.  I just ordered our -10 empennage last friday (and 

 thanks, folks, for the advice!), and here I am with six hours in my 

 logbook and my wife hasn't started.

 

 ah well - it's gotta be cheaper than building, month for month, right?

 

 ---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

No, it DEFINITELY is.  I went and did a couple hours in a

C182RG and got signed off on HP before I flew, just for the

same reasons David talked about.  So if you're building

a -10, just take the time to go get your HP signoff

some time when you're doing some proficiency work.  Like

if you need a BFR, schedule it in something that qualifies

as HP.  That should get you ready and keep you current.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying



ricksked(at)embarqmail.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I didn't think the HP endorsement was applicable to 

 experimentals..pardon my ignorance if I'm off base on that..

 

 Rick Sked

 40185

 

 Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 *From*: "David McNeill"

 *Date*: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:47:33 -0700

 *To*: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

 *Subject*: RE: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the 

 policy

 

 One other thing; be sure and get your high = performance  endorsement 

 along the way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition = training in  

 the Phoenix area but after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the subject 

 = of the  high performance endorsement surfaced. I was told that I 

 could not sign = a HP  endorsement as a part of the transition because 

 that could be = accomplished in  certified aircraft (even though a 

 person will not be considered = proficient in an  RV10 without the 

 instruction for it.). Upon hearing that I decided = that I  don't need 

 to do this and canned the paperwork

  

 COM CFII A&P.

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 *From:* = owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Don  McDonald

 *Sent:* Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:14 = PM

 *To:*  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: Insuring an = RV-10 with  low-time pilots on 

 the policy

 

 Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write = ups and  

 comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last = 

 paragraph  below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as 

 some = low-time  pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most 

 people = have

 at  least had a couple hundred hours of time".  My objection is = you 

 using  the word "interesting".  It's not at all interesting, it's a = 

 total  pain in the ass.  These insurance companies have gone = 

 bonkers.   They wanted me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a 

 specific = number of  takeoffs and landings.... that was fine, then, 

 however, they = wanted  another 10 hours of dual instruments.... that 

 wasn't toooo bad = either, but  the kicker was;  if the 40 hours were 

 not yet flown off the = plane, I  must hire a test pilot to fly them 

 off...... THEN,,,, they would = insure me  for the wonderful cost of 

 almost $6,000 per year.   And = this was  the only company I found 

 that would even provide a quote!!!!

 Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or = no  time.

 Just kiddin' ya Tim.

 Don McDonald

 #40636

 BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on = Sat.

 

 

 ---  On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim(at)MyRV10.com>/*  wrote:

 From:  Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

 Subject: Re: = Insuring an  RV-10 with low-time pilots on 

 the policy

 To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, = 1:41  PM

 

 

 
	


anning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot. You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.  It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most people have at least had a couple hundred hours of time.  Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive   Eric Ekberg wrote: > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's.  I insured it as a = student pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); = only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo.  I wouldn't think a -10 would = be any more difficult (but what do I know?).  I would try a different = company. >  > Eric > do not archive >  > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks = <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> wrote: >  >   

 

  

 

to sell (current market conditions excluded). >     While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a = multi >     person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in = your own >     plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training >     in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total = ownership costs >     of a trainer. >  >     Robin >     STILL in paint >     Do Not Archive >  >     --

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

FAR 61.31 (f) . I don't believe that Part 61 makes a  distinction if one is flying an experimental category airplane. At least the  FSDO understood it to be required. 

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  ricksked(at)embarqmail.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:08  PM

To: Rv

Subject: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with  low-time pilots on the policy

I didn't think the HP endorsement was applicable to  experimentals..pardon my ignorance if I'm off base on that..

Rick  Sked

40185 

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T 

  From: "David McNeill" 

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009  20:47:33 -0700

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject:  RE: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

 One other thing; be sure and get your high =  performance=20 endorsement along the way. I had planned to offer RV10 transition  = training in=20 the Phoenix area but after submitting the plan to the FSDO, the  subject = of the=20 high performance endorsement surfaced. I was told that I  could not sign = a HP=20 endorsement as a part of the transition because that  could be = accomplished in=20 certified aircraft (even though a person will not  be considered = proficient in an=20 RV10 without the instruction for it.).  Upon hearing that I decided = that I=20 don't need to do this and canned the  paperwork

 COM CFII A&P.

   From: =  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com=20  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don=20  McDonald

Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:14 = PM

To:=20  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Insuring an = RV-10  with=20 low-time pilots on the policy

                   Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write = ups        and=20 comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last =        paragraph=20 below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some        = low-time=20 pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most        people = have

at=20 least had a couple hundred hours of time".  My        objection is = you using=20 the word "interesting".  It's not at all        interesting, it's a = total=20 pain in the ass.  These insurance        companies have gone = bonkers. =20 They wanted me to have 10 hours        dual with CFI doing a specific = number of=20 takeoffs and landings....        that was fine, then, however, they = wanted=20 another 10 hours of dual        instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad = either, but=20 the kicker        was;  if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the = plane, I=20 must        hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would = insure me=20        for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year.   And = this        was=20 the only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!

       Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or = no=20        time.

       Just kiddin' ya Tim.

       Don McDonald

       #40636

       BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on =        Sat.

---=20 On Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson        <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>=20 wrote:

From:=20 Tim Olson        <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Subject: Re: = Insuring an=20 RV-10        with low-time pilots on the policy

To:=20        rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, = 1:41=20        PM

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson = <Tim(at)myrv10.com>  Eric,  I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably easier.  But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market.  I just had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that they would actually cover her.   No idea on rates but likely real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane for training.  And, they found one company that would cover a 100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000 additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).  I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2. That's probably the biggest killer.  I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least 100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot. You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.  It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most people have at least had a couple hundred hours of time.  Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive   Eric Ekberg wrote: > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's.  I insured it as a = student pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); = only requirement was 10 hours dual before solo.  I wouldn't think a -10 would = be any more difficult (but what do I know?).  I would try a different = company. >=20 > Eric > do not archive >=20 > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks = <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> wrote: >=20 >     --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" >     <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com = <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> >=20 >     Tim, >            I have a business partner that came from a flying family = (8 >     pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1 to = fly so I >     purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. = We went >     through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before = he >     trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to = handing them >     off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were extremely >     comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their >     certification went well. I then let a number of other friends = and >     associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations = have been >     really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this = purchase. I >     believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect = to lose >     too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions excluded). >     While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a = multi >     person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in = your own >     plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or training >     in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total = ownership costs >     of a trainer. >=20 >     Robin >     STILL in paint >     Do Not Archive >=20 >     --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

I hear you Don, that's why I brought it up.  It stinks to be

blind sided by such financial news.  I know when I finished

my RV-10, I had maybe $1,000 to my name.  I was actually

worried that I may not be able to earn fast enough to pay

for the fuel to fly it off in a reasonable amount of time.

Think about it, the flyoff alone will cost $1500-3000 in

fuel.  And after not even thinking about it through the build,

you call your insurance guy up a month before you fly and

get a quote and find out that your insurance is going to

run you maybe a minimum of $2500 (roughly) or as much as

$6,000 (if you have low time), before you can even take off

for your first flight. Oh, and then you need that transition

training...save a $500-1000 or more for that, because you're

going to pay for a plane, an instructor, and the travel to

get you there if you need to fly with the common 2 Transition

trainers.  It all adds up.  That's why I figured I'd use my

wife's example as an illustration.  It gives people a heads up

for what to plan for.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Don McDonald wrote:

[quote] Tim, normally I am very appreciative for all of your write ups and 

 comments.... that being said, if you look down at your last paragraph 

 below, you wrote "It's really going to be interesting as some low-time 

 pilots start shopping for insurance.  So far most people have

 at least had a couple hundred hours of time".  My objection is you using 

 the word "interesting".  It's not at all interesting, it's a total pain 

 in the ass.  These insurance companies have gone bonkers.  They wanted 

 me to have 10 hours dual with CFI doing a specific number of takeoffs 

 and landings.... that was fine, then, however, they wanted another 10 

 hours of dual instruments.... that wasn't toooo bad either, but the 

 kicker was;  if the 40 hours were not yet flown off the plane, I must 

 hire a test pilot to fly them off...... THEN,,,, they would insure me 

 for the wonderful cost of almost $6,000 per year.   And this was the 

 only company I found that would even provide a quote!!!!

 Just a heads up for the rest of you out there with little or no time.

 Just kiddin' ya Tim.

 Don McDonald

 #40636

 BTW - my 10 is going to roll onto the scales on Sat.

 

 

 --- On *Wed, 2/18/09, Tim Olson /<Tim(at)MyRV10.com>/* wrote:

 

     From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

     Subject: Re: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on

     the policy

     To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

     Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 1:41 PM

 

     

 

     Eric,

 

     I wouldn't think that the -10 would be harder to fly...probably

     easier.  But I think the higher hull value combined with 260HP

     is what just kills the RV-10 in the insurance market.  I just

     had another couple emails with the insurance agent, and it sounds

     like there may just be one company that would at least LOOK

     at covering my wife as a student pilot...with no guarantee that

     they would actually cover her.   No idea on rates but likely

     real high...high enough that I may as well rent a plane

     for training.  And, they found one company that would cover a

     100 hour PVT pilot with a premium that may be maybe $1200-2000

     additional cost from what my insurance is right now ($2700-2850).

 

     I know that lots of people will try to compare "I paid this

     in my RV-6/7/8/9" but I really don't think that there is going

     to be any direct comparison....not with 4 seats compared to 2.

     That's probably the biggest killer.

 

     I'm planning to wait now until she has a pilot certificate and

     then see if they'll add her as a named pilot with the clause

     that in order to be covered for XXX hours (figure at least

     100 hours), she would be required to have me as a co-pilot.

     You'd think that might give the company some warm fuzzies.

 

     It's really going to be interesting as some low-time pilots

     start shopping for insurance.  So far most people have

     at least had a couple hundred hours of time.

 

     Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

     do not archive

 

 

     Eric Ekberg wrote:

     > I have my RV-7A insured through Traver's.  I insured it as a student

     pilot with no problems (except that my premium was $3k for $105k hull); only

     requirement was 10 hours dual before solo.  I wouldn't think a -10 would be

     any more difficult (but what do I know?).  I would try a different company.

     > 

     > Eric

     > do not archive

     > 

     > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Robin Marks <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com

     <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>> wrote:

     > 

     >     

     >     <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com <mailto:robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>>

     > 

     >     Tim,

     >            I have a business partner that came from a flying family (8

     >     pilots) and he wanted to teach his two kids (16 & 1 to fly so I

     >     purchased a cherry Cessna 150/150 (hp) for something like $17K. We

     went

     >     through the thing top to bottom to make sure it was 100% before he

     >     trained both his kids to the best of his ability prior to handing them

     >     off to a CFI for "real" training. By then they were

     extremely

     >     comfortable with the principles of flight and the rest of their

     >     certification went well. I then let a number of other friends and

     >     associated train in the plane. Insurance and flight operations have

     been

     >     really cheap and a lot of people have benefited from this purchase. I

     >     believe I bought the plane well and normally would not expect to lose

     >     too much when it's time to sell (current market conditions

     excluded).

     >     While this may not be a viable route for most people maybe a multi

     >     person partnership on a trainer could be a viable way to fly in your

     own

     >     plane and build a lot of hours w/o paying costly rental fees or

     training

     >     in too much plane whose insurance costs match the total ownership

     costs

     >     of a trainer.

     > 

     >     Robin

     >     STILL in paint

     >     Do Not Archive

     > 

     >     --

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

The way I read the FAR 61.31 (f) it is required to be "legal". The response

I received was not that a person would not be HP qualified by the time I

finished RV10 transition training but that I could not sign their book on

the transition training basis. 



--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

Rule of thumb; If the pilot has significant flying time,IR and complex and

HP endorsements insurance will be 2% or less per year. Low time pilots ( 300

TT VFR) figure 3% , newly minted private pilots can figure 4%+. Consider the

insurance company point of view. One, this airplane has very rapid

acceleration on the ground. Secondly it is fast in the air and the aircraft

has cruise speeds 50%-60% higher than typical trainer aircraft. This means

that the VFR pilot can get into weather a lot faster and easier. Here in AZ,

the weather is usually clear and 50 but the 10 will get the pilot to the

state boundaries in an hour in any direction. The 5-6 hour range can easily

take one into the LA basin, Reno, etc. If fact one of my first trips with

the airplane I flew it to Reno expecting the usual visual approach during

last summer. At 30 miles SE the ATIS was offering the ILS 16R with

visibilities just above minimums at 1 and 1/4 miles. The ILS went fine

including the controller vectoring the B737 behind me back and forth across

the localizer to prevent him from running over me. My point is that the

faster airplane can get a pilot to destination a lot faster and into

potential danger sooner. Another consideration is the gee whiz electronics;

it takes flight time to become familiar with all the new stuff offered. I

know I have pushed the wrong button on occasion and tried to determine how

to return to a previous setting. Just some reasons why an insurance company

might be cautious about the insurance requirements. 



--

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:52 pm Post subject: Insuring an RV-10 with low-time pilots on the policy

And another reason the "Insurance Company" is doing this...Capital..

Lest we forget the current economic times...Insurance investments have in the past been pretty stable...but insurance companies relay on investments to grow capital and earn money...consider your small investment in the markets compared to...and I hate to say it AIG...How has your year been? Mine sucked...but not even close to the losses insurance companies and other financial based business have suffered. So where do you think they will recover a portion of that loss? Premiums on written policies...expect tighter adjusting practices as well...



Rick Sked

40185

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



--

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