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701 elevator trim option
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bob(at)frontrange-pc.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

Folks,  

   

My rudder is done and I’m tooling up for the rest of the tail feathers.  While I’m trying to go as light as possible I’m thinking the trim option is  good idea. I’d appreciate feedback from those flying with and without the trim. Especially those of you with heavier engines.  

   

Thanks in advance  

   

Bob Percival  

701/Vair -  Glacial pace but accelerating finally!  

   

Do Not Archive  

      [quote][b]

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

Wouldn't be without it, not much weight to it and you are going to need as  much weight in the tail that you can get.

 Bob Spudis

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 2/20/2009 11:21:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  bob(at)frontrange-pc.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		        

Folks,   

    

My rudder is done and Iâ€™m tooling up for the rest of the    tail feathers.  While Iâ€™m trying to go as light as possible Iâ€™m thinking    the trim option is  good idea. Iâ€™d appreciate feedback from those flying    with and without the trim. Especially those of you with heavier    engines.   

    

Thanks in advance   

    

Bob Percival   

701/Vair -  Glacial pace but accelerating    finally!   

    

Do Not Archive

	


 

  

 A Good Credit Score is 7001267884/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

I'd sure put it in.  Hardly weighs anything.  I admit that once  trimmed for straight and level I rarely touch it as control forces are so light  no matter what.  

 On my kitfox the 'trim' is by adjusting the flapperons, using a different  system.  On that plane I rarely touch the trim either as trimmed straight  and level I never notice stick forces no matter what I do.

 [quote]   ---

dwilde(at)clearwire.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

Bob Percival wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Folks,



 My rudder is done and I’m tooling up for the rest of the tail 

 feathers. While I’m trying to go as light as possible I’m thinking the 

 trim option is good idea. I’d appreciate feedback from those flying 

 with and without the trim. Especially those of you with heavier engines.



 Thanks in advance



 Bob Percival



 701/Vair - Glacial pace but accelerating finally!



Bob: Put it in now. I did not install the electric trim tab until after 
	


I built and flew my plane. It would have been so much easier installing 

it while I was building instead of retrofitting later.



Yes you will want one. It works great and once trimmed for cruise you 

hardly need to touch the controls.



Dan Wilde

N948DW

bob(at)frontrange-pc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:01 am Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

Thanks Dan, Tommy and Bobs. Electric trim it is.



Do Not Archive



Bob Percival

701/Vair

ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: 701 elevator trim option

I even have a larger trim tab on the horizontal elevator then the plans call for. Even with full up trim and vortex generators on the bottom of the elevator, coming in for a landing I need to keep a bit of back pressure on the stick to keep the plane slow enough for approach speed. I had to keep lots more back pressure before I installed the vg's. On the GA planes I have flown they could all be trimmed to hold the correct approach speed without any aft stick pressure, thereby easing the workload making an approach. Does anyone else's 701 have this unconventional characteristic on their plane?

Ron Lee

Tucson, Arizona

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

graeme(at)coletoolcentre.
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

What is your approach speed.



Graemecns



do not archive



---

klondike(at)megalink.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

what does the trailing edge of your elevator look like?  that of the early 

701's or similar to the 601?

---

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

Ron,

 Did you leave the trailing edge of the elevator with the bend or straighten  it out?

  

  

 In a message dated 2/22/2009 10:08:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  klondike(at)megalink.net writes:

 [quote]-->    Zenith701801-List message posted by: "fritz"    <klondike(at)megalink.net>



what does the trailing edge of your    elevator look like?  that of the early 

701's or similar to the    601?

---

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

Hello Ron,

  

 I also made my trim tab double the width of the one in the plans (from comments from pilots while building years ago...),  does a great job, no problem for me in trimming for aproach.

  

 For me works great 60 mph indicated with 15 D flaps in final.  I like very much the feeling of the airplane at that approach speed, very solid even in turbulence.  probably our altitude here (5,029 ft ASL). and also that we have  a few trees "air shade" just before the numbers...

  

 I keep 60 all the way until ground efect and flare.  I practice often my aproach with engine in idle since basic.  is a steep aproach with a very well timed flare, but I am shure will help eventualy in case of a engine off landing...

 Is something I keep doing since my 2 cycle engine's flying..  3 engine emergencies in 15 years of 2 Cycle ultralight flying, only one with some light (repairable) damage.  no harm to me.

  

 Saludos

 Gary Gower

 Flying from Chapala, Mexico.

 701 912S  235 hrs 



--- On Sun, 2/22/09, ronlee <rlee468(at)comcast.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: ronlee <rlee468(at)comcast.net>

Subject: Re: 701 elevator trim option

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 9:26 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ronlee"

<rlee468(at)comcast.net>



I even have a larger trim tab on the horizontal elevator then the plans call

for. Even with full up trim and vortex generators on the bottom of the elevator,

coming in for a landing I need to keep a bit of back pressure on the stick to

keep the plane slow enough for approach speed. I had to keep lots more back

pressure before I installed the vg's. On the GA planes I have flown they

could all be trimmed to hold the correct approach speed without any aft stick

pressure, thereby easing the workload making an approach. Does anyone else's

701 have this unconventional characteristic on their plane?

Ron Lee

Tucson, Arizona



--------

Ron Lee

Tucson, Arizona



	
	


         [quote][b]

321PT

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Texas

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

Ron:

 This is just my technique; I do not try to trim out the back pressure.  I leave the trim alone.  If I have to go around at the last second, it makes the plane easier to control and one less thing to think about when you apply full power low to the ground.  I do have the large trim tab and it seems to be quite effective, but to be honest I have not tried to trim it out for the approach.  I do approach at  55 with no flaps to flair and touch down.  I adjust RPM as needed to vary the steepness, but not the speed.  Works great for me.  The VGs under the elevator have helped with control all the way to the ground, I like them.

 Paul Tipton

 321PT

 200 hours

  [quote][b]

dwilde(at)clearwire.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

Paul Tipton wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ron:

 This is just my technique; I do not try to trim out the back 

 pressure.  I leave the trim alone.  If I have to go around at the last 

 second, it makes the plane easier to control and one less thing to 

 think about when you apply full power low to the ground.  I do have 

 the large trim tab and it seems to be quite effective, but to be 

 honest I have not tried to trim it out for the approach.  I do 

 approach at  55 with no flaps to flair and touch down.  I adjust RPM 

 as needed to vary the steepness, but not the speed.  Works great for 

 me.  The VGs under the elevator have helped with control all the way 

 to the ground, I like them.

 Paul Tipton

 321PT

 200 hours

 *

 *

I used the small trim tab that came with the unit and it works fine.  
	


However I did straighten the trailing edge of the elevator before 

installing the trim tab and I  have the VGs installed.



I cross the end of the runway with 15 degrees of flaps at 50 mph and 

have plenty of control.  At 60 mph I would float down the runway for 

quite a ways and maybe balloon a little if I wasn't smooth on the stick. 



I also like to have back pressure on the stick.  Doing touch and goes 

with no back pressure requires applying forward pressure on the stick to 

keep the nose down when you go to full power on climb out.



Dan Wilde

N948DW

ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:33 am Post subject: Re: 701 elevator trim option

I did straighten the trailing edge of the elevator and that did help make the trim more effective in holding the nose up on landing. I then added the vortex generators which made the elevator trim still more effective but  not quite enough to maintain a 60 MPH approach speed with out some stick back pressure. If I let the stick float with full up trim, throttle at idle it will maintain about 73MPH.

Going full throttle with full up trim can make for heavy forward stick pressure. I have a manual activation of my trim so it is as fast as I can move the leaver. The advice of a quick acting trim came from an Alaska bush pilot who said one wants to have a trim that gets off quick as possible on a go around.

All said and done I wouldn't want to be without an elevator trim, it makes flying so much more relaxing.

Ron Lee 

Tucson, AZ

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

ch701builder(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

Ron,

I had thought about a manual trim. Do you have any pictures or any other information about your setup?



Thanks,

Keith

CH701 -- scratch



From: ronlee <rlee468(at)comcast.net>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:33:59 AM

Subject: Re: 701 elevator trim option



 --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net (rlee468(at)comcast.net)>



I did straighten the trailing edge of the elevator and that did help make the trim more effective in holding the nose up on landing. I then added the vortex generators which made the elevator trim still more effective but  not quite enough to maintain a 60 MPH approach speed with out some stick back pressure. If I let the stick float with full up trim, throttle at idle it will maintain about 73MPH.

Going full throttle with full up trim can make for heavy forward stick pressure. I have a manual activation of my trim so it is as fast as I can move the leaver. The advice of a quick acting trim came from an Alaska bush pilot who said one wants to have a trim that gets off quick as possible on a go around.

All said and done I wouldn't want to be without an elevator trim, it makes         [quote][b]

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:50 am Post subject: Re: 701 elevator trim option

Yes I would like to see pics of a manual trim also.

Kevin

do nt archive

_________________
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"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

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Dorothy McCune

stepinwolf

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:05 am Post subject: Re: 701 elevator trim option

Count me in also, for any info on a manual trim setup.  I had been thinking about this option for some time, and I'm glad to see that I'm not alone



Robert

701 & 750 Scratch

_________________
Long wing + vga's, = lo & slo

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: Re: 701 elevator trim option

Funny thing is I program, modify and repair automated machinery and the one thing its taught me is simple is better!

Here is what I was thinking of using.



Kevin

trim_system_2289.jpg

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stepinwolf

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:34 am Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

Kevin,

  

 I like the photo of manual trim control mechanism you posted, but my main  worry would be how quick changes could be made in case of a " go-around ".   

  

 I actually started looking at a system for manually controlling the trim  tab to get away from the delay that is seen when using an electric trim  controller.  I would expect that the one you have just included  in your response, might take quite a few turns ( I only have two hands ) to get  the trim back to it's take off position.

  

 My past experience ( although limited ) has taught me that when landing in  conditions that are not necessarily ideal, my two hand and two feet are very  busy, so I would not want to be obliged to have to spend too much time turning  the knob one way or the other, to try and get the trim tab, back to it's take  off position.  However in straight and level flight, the use of a screw  type of controller would make fine tuning a pleasure.

  

 Maby it's just me,,,,  and thank's for the pic )

  

 regards

 Robert

  

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Long wing + vga's, = lo & slo

bob(at)frontrange-pc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: 701 elevator trim option

I'm also interested in the mechanical trim details.



Also - those of you who have extended the trim, how much?

I think Gary Gower went 2x the plan length. What have others done?



Thanks



Bob Percival

701/Vair



Do Not Archive

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:57 am Post subject: Re: 701 elevator trim option

You are correct, it is not a quick adjust model.

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