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george.mueller(at)aurora.
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 Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:27 am Post subject: Xtra Pistons |
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I am anticipating putting my Zenith 701 on floats. Originally I was going to sell my 80hp 912UL and buy the 912ULS 100hp to get extra power for the floats. However I have come across a guy who sells high compression forged pistons (called Xtra) for the 912UL that adds 10-15 horsepower. The cost is about $850 for the pistons. This seems to be a more cost effective way to get the extra horsepower for floats (although I have heard from guys with the 80 hp Rotax on floats and they say it really is OK unless you are flying out of really small ponds). Does anyone have any experience with the Xtra pistons? The Xtra guy says he has sold 800 sets of these pistons worldwide. Is there any downside other than voiding the rotax warranty?
George in Milwaukee
N701GM 60 hours flying [quote][b]
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: Xtra Pistons |
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George,
I have no personal experience with the Xtra high compression pistons but you should be aware that there are a lot of differences between the 912UL (79-81 hp) and the higher compression 912ULS (95-100 hp) engines besides the higher compression. The 912ULS is designed from the ground up for the higher compression and resulting extra horsepower compared to the 912UL, different crank, different rods, different cylinders etc. My concern would be the probable durability and reliability degradation from applying higher compression to the stock 912UL engine internals.
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 10:22 AM, <george.mueller(at)aurora.org (george.mueller(at)aurora.org)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I am anticipating putting my Zenith 701 on floats. Originally I was going to sell my 80hp 912UL and buy the 912ULS 100hp to get extra power for the floats. However I have come across a guy who sells high compression forged pistons (called Xtra) for the 912UL that adds 10-15 horsepower. The cost is about $850 for the pistons. This seems to be a more cost effective way to get the extra horsepower for floats (although I have heard from guys with the 80 hp Rotax on floats and they say it really is OK unless you are flying out of really small ponds). Does anyone have any experience with the Xtra pistons? The Xtra guy says he has sold 800 sets of these pistons worldwide. Is there any downside other than voiding the rotax warranty?
George in Milwaukee
N701GM 60 hours flying ========== ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution [/b] |
[b]
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:04 am Post subject: Xtra Pistons |
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George,
I forgot to mention that I'm not one of the guys who thinks that 100 HP is absolutely essential for powering an LSA (floats or no floats). I am currently flying a RANS S6S with 80hp 912UL and have owned two other airplanes with 912UL with "only" 80 hp. I actually prefer the 912UL over the ULS, primarily for the much better economy of operation. 87 octane fuel at 4 gph vs 91 octane fuel at 5 gph makes a significant $ difference if you fly a lot of hours as I do. Fortunately, I don't need the extra power because I live in a relatively low density altitude area.
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Thomas R. Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | George,
I have no personal experience with the Xtra high compression pistons but you should be aware that there are a lot of differences between the 912UL (79-81 hp) and the higher compression 912ULS (95-100 hp) engines besides the higher compression. The 912ULS is designed from the ground up for the higher compression and resulting extra horsepower compared to the 912UL, different crank, different rods, different cylinders etc. My concern would be the probable durability and reliability degradation from applying higher compression to the stock 912UL engine internals.
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 10:22 AM, <george.mueller(at)aurora.org (george.mueller(at)aurora.org)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I am anticipating putting my Zenith 701 on floats. Originally I was going to sell my 80hp 912UL and buy the 912ULS 100hp to get extra power for the floats. However I have come across a guy who sells high compression forged pistons (called Xtra) for the 912UL that adds 10-15 horsepower. The cost is about $850 for the pistons. This seems to be a more cost effective way to get the extra horsepower for floats (although I have heard from guys with the 80 hp Rotax on floats and they say it really is OK unless you are flying out of really small ponds). Does anyone have any experience with the Xtra pistons? The Xtra guy says he has sold 800 sets of these pistons worldwide. Is there any downside other than voiding the rotax warranty?
George in Milwaukee
N701GM 60 hours flying ========== ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution [/b] |
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[b]
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Xtra Pistons |
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Hi George,
I'm with Thom on this.
If you need the extra HP go to the 912ULS.
[quote="Thom Riddle"]George,
I have no personal experience with the Xtra high compression pistons but you should be aware that there are a lot of differences between the 912UL (79-81 hp) and the higher compression 912ULS (95-100 hp) engines besides the higher compression. The 912ULS is designed from the ground up for the higher compression and resulting extra horsepower compared to the 912UL, different crank, different rods, different cylinders etc. My concern would be the probable durability and reliability�degradation�from applying higher compression to the stock 912UL engine internals.
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
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K Dilks
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Xtra Pistons |
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Just to clarify.
Differences from 80 to 100 hp.
Crank and rods are same for all the engine including 914.
Cam shaft
compression ratio.
Bigger pistons, cylinders and heads. 80 hp 1211cc
100 hp 1352 cc
Carburettors, different diffuser and jetting.
Airbox.
Spark plugs
Adding compression to 10,5:1 increases by 3-4 hp on a 80 hp.
CC is the answer along with the cam
Kev
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Dick Maddux
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:12 am Post subject: Xtra Pistons |
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George,
I also don't have any experience with these pistons but this specific topic was brought up in my Rotax engine class at Lockwood. The instructor said absolutely don't do it because there have been some engine failures/damage because of it. I don't remember any specifics because it has been over a year since I attended. I just remember the warning.
Dick Maddux
Kitfox 4
912 UL
Pensacola,Fl
Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhood today.
[quote][b]
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:52 am Post subject: Xtra Pistons |
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Not necessarily. Depends upon serial number of engine. Later models introduced new parts with separate part numbers.
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 1:49 AM, K Dilks <kevin.dilks(at)liwest.at (kevin.dilks(at)liwest.at)> wrote:
[quote]--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "K Dilks" <kevin.dilks(at)liwest.at (kevin.dilks(at)liwest.at)>
Just to clarify.
Differences from 80 to 100 hp.
Crank and rods are same for all the engine including 914.
Cam shaft
compression ratio.
Bigger pistons, cylinders and heads. 80 hp 1211cc
100 hp 1352 cc
Carburettors, different diffuser and jetting.
Airbox.
Spark plugs
Adding compression to 10,5:1 increases by 3-4 hp on a 80 hp.
CC is the answer along with the cam
Kev
--------
Austria .............
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232303#232303
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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K Dilks
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:56 am Post subject: Re: Xtra Pistons |
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Only the very early 912 pistons were different but if your talking new engine those parts i mention are the same , just guess were I work..............................................................................in Austria.
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