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Liability Insurance

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partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: Liability Insurance

Has anyone just got liability insurance?  No hull value, no extra anything.  

Either for the first flight, the flyoff, or forever?

Thanks guys.



Don McDonald

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:04 am Post subject: Liability Insurance

I have not-in-motion liability to meet the hangar lease requirements.  I dropped it from in-motion this year.  No hull for many years.

 Linn

 

 partner14 wrote: [quote]    	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "partner14" <building_partner(at)yahoo.com> (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)



Has anyone just got liability insurance?  No hull value, no extra anything.  

Either for the first flight, the flyoff, or forever?

Thanks guys.



Don McDonald



--------

Don A. McDonald

40636





Read this topic online here:



[url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 32451#232451]http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 32451#232451[/url]



  

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 [b]

jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

Linn:  Give us a ballpark of what liability  only insurance costs both for-in motion and not-in-motion.  Also would you  know what the cost would be for hull replacement for not-in-motion?   My thoughts are that I need liability coverage for all possibilities but only  need hull coverage if it gets whacked by someone or something while sitting on a  ramp, or if the hanger burns or collapses.  Any mild to moderate damage  while in motion I can probably fix, and I probably won't be able to care if  there is major damage.  Thanks,  Jay Rowe

 [quote]   ---

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

For my AA-1B ..... been with the company for a whole long time.  The AA-1B is apart for paint .... been that way for 6 years now, which made the change to not-in motion.

 Jay Rowe wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		              Linn:  Give us a ballpark of what liability only insurance costs both for-in motion

 	
 AA-1B was 250

  	  Quote: 	
		      and not-in-motion.

 	
 115

 

  	  Quote: 	
		       Also would you know what the cost would be for hull replacement for not-in-motion?

 	
 I don't.  I surmise that it's the same as in-motion since a loss is a loss.  I've never had hull insurance with the exception of the Pitts the first year.  I guess all the 'experts' scared me!

 Linn

 [quote]     My thoughts are that I need liability coverage for all possibilities but only need hull coverage if it gets whacked by someone or something while sitting on a ramp, or if the hanger burns or collapses.  Any mild to moderate damage while in motion I can probably fix, and I probably won't be able to care if there is major damage.  Thanks,  Jay Rowe

    	  Quote: 	
		       ----- Original Message ----- 

     From:     linn (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net) 

     To:     rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

     Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:07 PM

     Subject: Re: Liability Insurance

     

     

 I have not-in-motion liability to meet the hangar lease requirements.  I dropped it from in-motion this year.  No hull for many years.

 Linn

     

 partner14 wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "partner14" <building_partner(at)yahoo.com>



Has anyone just got liability insurance?  No hull value, no extra anything.  

Either for the first flight, the flyoff, or forever?

Thanks guys.



Don McDonald



--------

Don A. McDonald

40636





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 32451#232451



  



Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 



  	
     



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 [b]

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

Ok, I'll bite,  what the hell is AA-1B.  Do most companies sell insurance for liability only?  Recommendations?



--- On Sun, 3/1/09, linn <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 [quote]

From: linn <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>

Subject: Re: Liability Insurance

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 3:30 PM



 For my AA-1B ..... been with the company for a whole long time.  The AA-1B is apart for paint .... been that way for 6 years now, which made the change to not-in motion.

Jay Rowe wrote:   	  Quote: 	
		     Linn:  Give us a ballpark of what liability only insurance costs both for-in motion

	
AA-1B was 250

  	  Quote: 	
		   and not-in-motion.

	
115



  	  Quote: 	
		     Also would you know what the cost would be for hull replacement for not-in-motion?

	
I don't.  I surmise that it's the same as in-motion since a loss is a loss.  I've never had hull insurance with the exception of the Pitts the first year.  I guess all the 'experts' scared me!

Linn

 [quote]   My thoughts are that I need liability coverage for all possibilities but only need hull coverage if it gets whacked by someone or something while sitting on a ramp, or if the hanger burns or collapses.  Any mild to moderate damage while in motion I can probably fix, and I probably won't be able to care if there is major damage.  Thanks,  Jay Rowe

 [quote] ---

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

Don McDonald wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ok, I'll bite,  what the hell is AA-1B.  Do most companies sell 

 insurance for liability only?  Recommendations?



My '74 AA-1B is a Grumman American .... low wing, sliding canopy with 
	


sports-car maneuverability.  Most fun airplane I've ever flown ..... for 

it's category.  My Pitts is still #1 for my aerobatic fix.



I believe almost all underwriters carry liability only.  My agent is 

Aircraft & Marine Insurance   800 466-4944.  They've been really good to 

me over the years.

Linn

N520TX

Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 9

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

An AA-1B is a 2 seat certificated aircraft made by Grumman  (American Aviation). Basically a 2 seat Tiger/Cheetah.

  

 Ron

 [quote]   ---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

Jay,



My First years quote was $3441 for total coverage, both in

and not in motion...total coverage.



I got a quote of $2,083 for coverage that was just

for ground and taxi operations....i.e. once you take

the runway, no hull coverage at all.



I got a quote of $1,724 for "not in motion" coverage...only

covers the hull when you're parked with the engine off.



$782 liability only....no hull coverage whatsoever.



So that gives you an idea of the breakdown.



NOW, the tricky question is....if you have almost no time

in an RV-10, which time period do you think you're causing

yourself the BIGGEST financial risk if you fly without insurance?

My first year I started to sway towards getting "Not in Motion",

but then hey, it's "only" ~$150 to get taxi coverage.  And after

all, what if this new plane you built develops brake problems.

There is no steerable nosewheel, so for a newbie pilot it

might not be that far fetched to have a taxi incident early

in your RV-10 life.   So now I was happy to spend $2,083.

Well, then I thought about it again...if I were to consider

when I may be most likely to have problems, it would for

SURE be during the flyoff period.  Add to that the fact that

the first 100 hours or so you're finally learning and understanding

your plane.  So, at that point it's "only" ~$1350 to upgrade

for at least that first year, to total coverage.  I wasn't

willing to risk my entire financial future, the loss of an

expensive plane, and risk starting at step 1 all over again

for $1350 approx....so I went with full coverage.  Consider

that if I had to start with Step 1, to me that is "Save money

for 5 years or so, so I can even start the kit".



I would think it wise to just pony up the dollars for the first

100 hours or so of flight time.  Now today, with 445+ hours

on the plane, I'm reasonably confident that my risk level isn't

nearly what it used to be.  So I actually consider the

"not in flight" coverage to save that $1200-1400/yr.  The catch

is, I'm still not fully financially restored from the build,

and the loss of the plane would still devistate me financially

and psychologically.  So I just can't get myself to not spend

that extra bit.  Some day I may though, because you're right,

any minor damage you can probably repair, even if it means

building a whole pair of wings.



We have had more than just the 3 fatals so far though...there

are some not-in-motion losses, and some other "in-flight"

losses, and landing incidents.  So for many, some amount of

coverage may be a real good idea.  Sadly, it's those with the

fewest PIC hours that will not only pay the highest rates, but

will also NEED the insurance the most.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Jay Rowe wrote:

[quote] Linn:  Give us a ballpark of what liability only insurance costs both 

 for-in motion and not-in-motion.  Also would you know what the cost 

 would be for hull replacement for not-in-motion?  My thoughts are that I 

 need liability coverage for all possibilities but only need hull 

 coverage if it gets whacked by someone or something while sitting on a 

 ramp, or if the hanger burns or collapses.  Any mild to moderate damage 

 while in motion I can probably fix, and I probably won't be able to care 

 if there is major damage.  Thanks,  Jay Rowe

 

     ---

coop85(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

I'll pile on to Tim's answer.  I had liability only on my first airplane (a

Q-2 with only about $8,000 invested), opted for the "not in motion" for my

Skybolt but still under $25K invested.  My RV-6 had more in it so I went

with the full insurance.  Best money I ever spent when the engine quit due

to a poor overhaul job.  I have a whole lot more in the RV-10 and frankly

just couldn't stomach the thought of losing it all in event something

happened.  So while the insurance certainly isn't cheap, fortunately it's

better as you get more experience, it absolutely is worth it for what we

have in these machines.  Just my opinion of course, but having had to

exercise this once before I can assure you it was a great relief.



Marcus

405 hrs and counting.



Do not archive



--

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

Tim, I have 2 things to say;  1, you must type really fast.... because you take no shortcuts and relay exactly what you think and feel.....  and 2, thank you for doing exactly that.

 Unfortunately, the times/insurance situation has changed quite a bit since the time you were the low time pilot.  Like I said before, they won't even let me fly the plane until I have some 20 hours of dual, including instrument time, then have a test pilot fly off the 40 hours, and for that privilidge they want $6,000 a year.  So I will try to get some extra time in the 3 or 4 10's in the area.... but then I will almost be forced to get either liability only or liability with ground and taxi.  Certainly if I had the quote you had from the beginning, I to would jump on it.  Things are a little different for me, I should just about have the plane paid off prior to the first flight... which I estimate should be the end of March or beginning of April.

 Again, I look forward to meeting you, and thanks so much for supplying so much info to us newbees.

 Don McDonald

 #40636

 Almost flying  -  Awaiting FAA paperwork

--- On Sun, 3/1/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	

From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Subject: Re: Liability Insurance

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 4:36 PM

 --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>

Jay,

My First years quote was $3441 for total coverage, both in

and not in motion...total coverage.

I got a quote of $2,083 for coverage that was just

for ground and taxi operations....i.e. once you take

the runway, no hull coverage at all.

I got a quote of $1,724 for "not in motion" coverage...only

covers the hull when you're parked with the engine off.

$782 liability only....no hull coverage whatsoever.

So that gives you an idea of the breakdown.

NOW, the tricky question is....if you have almost no time

in an RV-10, which time period do you think you're causing

yourself the BIGGEST financial risk if you fly without insurance?

My first year I started to sway towards getting "Not in  Motion",

but then hey, it's "only" ~$150 to get taxi coverage.  And after

all, what if this new plane you built develops brake problems.

There is no steerable nosewheel, so for a newbie pilot it

might not be that far fetched to have a taxi incident early

in your RV-10 life.   So now I was happy to spend $2,083.

Well, then I thought about it again...if I were to consider

when I may be most likely to have problems, it would for

SURE be during the flyoff period.  Add to that the fact that

the first 100 hours or so you're finally learning and understanding

your plane.  So, at that point it's "only" ~$1350 to upgrade

for at least that first year, to total coverage.  I wasn't

willing to risk my entire financial future, the loss of an

expensive plane, and risk starting at step 1 all over again

for $1350 approx....so I went with full coverage.  Consider

that if I had to start  with Step 1, to me that is "Save money

for 5 years or so, so I can even start the kit".

I would think it wise to just pony up the dollars for the first

100 hours or so of flight time.  Now today, with 445+ hours

on the plane, I'm reasonably confident that my risk level isn't

nearly what it used to be.  So I actually consider the

"not in flight" coverage to save that $1200-1400/yr.  The catch

is, I'm still not fully financially restored from the build,

and the loss of the plane would still devistate me financially

and psychologically.  So I just can't get myself to not spend

that extra bit.  Some day I may though, because you're right,

any minor damage you can probably repair, even if it means

building a whole pair of wings.

We have had more than just the 3 fatals so far though...there

are some not-in-motion losses, and some other "in-flight"

losses, and landing  incidents.  So for many, some amount of

coverage may be a real good idea.  Sadly, it's those with the

fewest PIC hours that will not only pay the highest rates, but

will also NEED the insurance the most.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Jay Rowe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Linn:  Give us a ballpark of what liability only insurance costs both for-in motion and not-in-motion.  Also would you know what the cost would be for hull replacement for not-in-motion?  My thoughts are that I need liability coverage for all possibilities but only need hull coverage if it gets whacked by someone or something while sitting on a ramp, or if the hanger burns or collapses.  Any mild to moderate damage while in motion I can probably fix, and I probably won't be able to care if there is major damage.  Thanks,  Jay Rowe

     ----- Original Message  -----

     *From:* linn <mailto:pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>

     *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>

     *Sent:* Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:07 PM

     *Subject:* Re: Liability Insurance

     I have not-in-motion liability to meet the hangar lease

     requirements.  I dropped it from in-motion this year.  No hull for

     many  years.

     Linn

     partner14 wrote:

>     --> RV10-List message posted by: "partner14" <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)>

> 

>     Has anyone just got liability insurance?  No hull value, no extra anything.      Either for the first flight, the flyoff, or forever?

>     Thanks guys.

> 

>     Don McDonald

> 

>     --------

>     Don A. McDonald

>     40636[b]http:http://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com

           [quote][b]

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

Yeah, I am lucky that I type like a caffeine addicted secretary, because

it would take me forever to reply otherwise.  I do like to give

replies though that don't leave things too vague, so that's why I

take the extra words.



When I got my first quotes, they quoted 5 hrs Dual / 10 hrs solo.

I was covered for my first flight after only the 5 hours dual, but

they had an additional 10% deductible or something like that

until I got my 10 solo hours in.  I had my instrument rating

at the time, so I don't know what the situation would have been

if I had been VFR-only.  I also had made it out of the "low-time"

category by then....not having thousands, but at least a few hundred

hours.  All that helps.   I know the requirements are a little more

stringent now, which I'm betting are not only due to seeing a few

losses...(I know at least 1 RV-10 was fully paid out in insurance

after the loss), but also perhaps due to a real rash in accidents

in the Lancairs, with greater, but not all unsimilar performance.

Heck, even the Cirrus record as of late may be partly to blame for

our ills.  Whatever the case though, the insurance folks put those

clauses in there because they have experience to show where the

risk is...and it's important not to lose too much sight of that,

despite the pains it causes us.  I will state for a fact that

when I was a 40-80 hr pilot I had many more "situations" that I'm

just glad never amounted to an incident.  It was during my instrument

training, in fact, that I suddenly realized that my basic flying

skills were taking a leap, because I was so busy flying the gauges

that I didn't have TIME be lazy and fly with less precision.



I do feel for you though on the insurance.  I have mixed

feelings, in that $6000 and the other requirements they put

on you seem like overkill at times.  But then I am reminded

of my earlier time in aircraft in my <100 or <150 hour

experience range and man, I am probably lucky I didn't have

an RV-10 at the time.  I probably would have ADVANCED my skills

faster if I would have had easy access to such a plane

back then, but I really would hate to make some of the mistakes

I made back then, if I were making them in my RV-10.  So it's

a mixed bag.  It is really one of the reasons I try to talk

people into just buying a SPAM can for learning to fly , or for

a first airplane, and then put in some initial time.  It isn't

as fun, but they are much less to lose, and the insurance is far

easier to get.  My father learned to fly in our plane that we bought

together, and back then, he was the reason for our higher rates,

since he was a student, and then later just low-time, while

not too long after buying it I got my IFR ticket.  Despite having

2 pilots and his low time, our insurance started at maybe $1100,

and ended up in the $800's.  Full coverage.  We both put 250 hours

in that plane before selling it, so we walked away selling it

for more than we bought it....with the major expense being fuel

and annuals.

Photo

http://www.5000feet.com/forsale/sundowner/pics/midsize/N2251L0012.jpg



Anyway, even if you have to pay $6,000 for the first year, considering

the low time and lack of instrument rating, in perspective you're

maybe only paying $2,000 more than someone with 200 hours would.  That

money is less than the cost of the FUEL you'll burn just doing the

private pilot course.  Also, fuel is only about 1/3 the cost of the

overall operation of the plane, so in perspective it's really not

that much money.  The perspective is important.  Like what's a $3000

Nav/Com when you're building a $150,000 plane.  Also, you'll find

you progress best in skill if you can fly at least 100hrs/yr for your 

first couple of years.  If you do that, and amortize the $2000 

additional insurance fee out over a year, you're only talking $20/hr.

Now let me ask you this...if you were renting a plane at the airport

for instruction, and someone told you that you could get your PPSEL

in an RV-10 for only $20/hr extra....I think many people would jump

all over that.  And I bet you a cold one that after your first 100

hours of time are put in, and you have a Private Pilot Certificate,

you'll be able to find someone who will cover you for less than

$6,000 the 2nd year.  It may not be $3500, but it will beat $6,00.

The key is getting the time and ratings under your belt that put you

in a better statistical risk category.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

Don McDonald wrote:

[quote] Tim, I have 2 things to say;  1, you must type really fast.... because 

 you take no shortcuts and relay exactly what you think and feel.....  

 and 2, thank you for doing exactly that.

 Unfortunately, the times/insurance situation has changed quite a bit 

 since the time you were the low time pilot.  Like I said before, they 

 won't even let me fly the plane until I have some 20 hours of dual, 

 including instrument time, then have a test pilot fly off the 40 hours, 

 and for that privilidge they want $6,000 a year.  So I will try to get 

 some extra time in the 3 or 4 10's in the area.... but then I will 

 almost be forced to get either liability only or liability with ground 

 and taxi.  Certainly if I had the quote you had from the beginning, I to 

 would jump on it.  Things are a little different for me, I should just 

 about have the plane paid off prior to the first flight... which I 

 estimate should be the end of March or beginning of April.

 Again, I look forward to meeting you, and thanks so much for supplying 

 so much info to us newbees.

 Don McDonald

 #40636

 Almost flying  -  Awaiting FAA paperwork

 

 --- On *Sun, 3/1/09, Tim Olson /<Tim(at)MyRV10.com>/* wrote:

 

 

     From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

     Subject: Re: Liability Insurance

     To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

     Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 4:36 PM

 

     

     <http://us.mc01g.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Tim(at)myrv10.com>>

 

     Jay,

 

     My First years quote was $3441 for total coverage, both in

     and not in motion...total coverage.

 

     I got a quote of $2,083 for coverage that was just

     for ground and taxi operations....i.e. once you take

     the runway, no hull coverage at all.

 

     I got a quote of $1,724 for "not in motion" coverage...only

     covers the hull when you're parked with the engine off.

 

     $782 liability only....no hull coverage whatsoever.

 

     So that gives you an idea of the breakdown.

 

     NOW, the tricky question is....if you have almost no time

     in an RV-10, which time period do you think you're causing

     yourself the BIGGEST financial risk if you fly without insurance?

     My first year I started to sway towards getting "Not in Motion",

     but then hey, it's "only" ~$150 to get taxi coverage.  And after

     all, what if this new plane you built develops brake problems.

     There is no steerable nosewheel, so for a newbie pilot it

     might not be that far fetched to have a taxi incident early

     in your RV-10 life.   So now I was happy to spend $2,083.

     Well, then I thought about it again...if I were to consider

     when I may be most likely to have problems, it would for

     SURE be during the flyoff period.  Add to that the fact that

     the first 100 hours or so you're finally learning and understanding

     your plane.  So, at that point it's "only" ~$1350 to upgrade

     for at least that first year, to total coverage.  I wasn't

     willing to risk my entire financial future, the loss of an

     expensive plane, and risk starting at step 1 all over again

     for $1350 approx....so I went with full coverage.  Consider

     that if I had to start with Step 1, to me that is "Save money

     for 5 years or so, so I can even start the kit".

 

     I would think it wise to just pony up the dollars for the first

     100 hours or so of flight time.  Now today, with 445+ hours

     on the plane, I'm reasonably confident that my risk level isn't

     nearly what it used to be.  So I actually consider the

     "not in flight" coverage to save that $1200-1400/yr.  The catch

     is, I'm still not fully financially restored from the build,

     and the loss of the plane would still devistate me financially

     and psychologically.  So I just can't get myself to not spend

     that extra bit.  Some day I may though, because you're right,

     any minor damage you can probably repair, even if it means

     building a whole pair of wings.

 

     We have had more than just the 3 fatals so far though...there

     are some not-in-motion losses, and some other "in-flight"

     losses, and landing incidents.  So for many, some amount of

     coverage may be a real good idea.  Sadly, it's those with the

     fewest PIC hours that will not only pay the highest rates, but

     will also NEED the insurance the most.

 

 

     Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

     do not archive

 

 

     Jay Rowe wrote:

      > Linn:  Give us a ballpark of what liability only insurance costs

     both for-in motion and not-in-motion.  Also would you know what the

     cost would be for hull replacement for not-in-motion?  My thoughts

     are that I need liability coverage for all possibilities but only

     need hull coverage if it gets whacked by someone or something while

     sitting on a ramp, or if the hanger burns or collapses.  Any mild to

     moderate damage while in motion I can probably fix, and I probably

     won't be able to care if there is major damage.  Thanks,  Jay Rowe

      >

      >     ---

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:39 am Post subject: Liability Insurance

The insurance companies are pretty good in their estimation of risk. Even a

relatively high time pilot can be surprised by first flight in the 10. I may

have already related my experiences so skip this if its redundant. I was

required to get one hour of dual before flying my RV10. I understood that

they were just being conservative since their money was at stake. I traveled

to the DFW area in February of 2008, flying my Glastar 10 hours round trip

for the one hour of dual. I landed at Alex's airpark home on their 36 foot

wide (allegedly) runway 35. The winds were 310 15G27. He made the takeoff

out of there and we did some air work and then did three TGs at a nearby

airport with a longer North South runway. Winds were increasing; He really

did not want to fly but since I had come 750 NM we did. After 3 TGs , the

C172 in front of us in the pattern did not have sufficient rudder to

continue TGs, we returned to his narrow airpark strip where he landed the

aircraft. I departed in my Glastar and flew home.



On April 24 I made first flight in the 10. One of the things my building

partner and I had discussed was a high speed taxi but in the excitement I

did not remember it. Having never made a takeoff from a standing start in

the 10, I considered it just like any other aircraft I had flown. I smoothly

pushed the power lever forward and was surprised, not by the considerable

left turning tendency , but the very rapid acceleration. The time to lift

off was between 5-10 seconds. After that surprise the next 1.3 hours were

unremarkable. I put my building partner on the insurance after the test

period. For a VFR private pilot with 250 hours, the cost was an extra $1000

and I gave him the three hours of dual.



My advice to low time pilots is to recognize the insurance requirements for

what they are: A procedure to minimize the risk to all concerned. I built a

Glastar prior to the 10 and did not make first flight in it.  The test pilot

landed the aircraft fast because in a previous new Glastar test flight , the

builder had misread the plans and set the horizontal stab 1.5 degrees up

instead of 1.5 degrees down. The stab was trying to stall and tuck under

when he flared. Even test pilots get surprised. I had not planned to make

first flight in the 10 but had difficulty getting my Glastar test pilot

qualified without RV10 time.



My current quote from Globe is comparable to Tim's



COM SEL 4500+TT, CFII, A&P

C150 C172 M20 BE36 AA5 TC177RG (2500) Glastar (250) RV10 (115)



  



--

kdbelue(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:50 am Post subject: Liability Insurance

Don,

Can I ask what company gave that quote? Certainly seems very high, like Avemco. I would expect Global or AIG to be half that cost and better terms.

Kevin Belue

RV6A

RV10



Sent from my iPhone



On Mar 1, 2009, at 10:35 PM, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:



[quote]Tim, I have 2 things to say;  1, you must type really fast.... because you take no shortcuts and relay exactly what you think and feel.....  and 2, thank you for doing exactly that.

 Unfortunately, the times/insurance situation has changed quite a bit since the time you were the low time pilot.  Like I said before, they won't even let me fly the plane until I have some 20 hours of dual, including instrument time, then have a test pilot fly off the 40 hours, and for that privilidge they want $6,000 a year.  So I will try to get some extra time in the 3 or 4 10's in the area.... but then I will almost be forced to get either liability only or liability with ground and taxi.  Certainly if I had the quote you had from the beginning, I to would jump on it.  Things are a little different for me, I should just about have the plane paid off prior to the first flight... which I estimate should be the end of March or beginning of April.

 Again, I look forward to meeting you, and thanks so much for supplying so much info to us newbees.

 Don McDonald

 #40636

 Almost flying  -  Awaiting FAA paperwork



--- On Sun, 3/1/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> wrote:



 [quote]

From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>

Subject: Re: Liability Insurance

To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]

Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 4:36 PM



   Motion",

but then hey, it's "only" ~$150 to get taxi coverage.  And after

all, what if this new plane you built develops brake problems.

There is no steerable nosewheel, so for a newbie pilot it

might not be that far fetched to have a taxi incident early

in your RV-10 life.   So now I was happy to spend $2,083.

Well, then I thought about it again...if I were to consider

when I may be most likely to have problems, it would for

SURE be during the flyoff period.  Add to that the fact that

the first 100 hours or so you're finally learning and understanding

your plane.  So, at that point it's "only" ~$1350 to upgrade

for at least that first year, to total coverage.  I wasn't

willing to risk my entire financial future, the loss of an

expensive plane, and risk starting at step 1 all over again

for $1350 approx....so I went with full coverage.  Consider

that if I had to start  with Step 1, to me that is "Save money

for 5 years or so, so I can even start the kit".



I would think it wise to just pony up the dollars for the first

100 hours or so of flight time.  Now today, with 445+ hours

on the plane, I'm reasonably confident that my risk level isn't

nearly what it used to be.  So I actually consider the

"not in flight" coverage to save that $1200-1400/yr.  The catch

is, I'm still not fully financially restored from the build,

and the loss of the plane would still devistate me financially

and psychologically.  So I just can't get myself to not spend

that extra bit.  Some day I may though, because you're right,

any minor damage you can probably repair, even if it means

building a whole pair of wings.



We have had more than just the 3 fatals so far though...there

are some not-in-motion losses, and some other "in-flight"

losses, and landing  incidents.  So for many, some amount of

coverage may be a real good idea.  Sadly, it's those with the

fewest PIC hours that will not only pay the highest rates, but

will also NEED the insurance the most.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Jay Rowe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Linn:  Give us a ballpark of what liability only insurance costs both for-in motion and not-in-motion.  Also would you know what the cost would be for hull replacement for not-in-motion?  My thoughts are that I need liability coverage for all possibilities but only need hull coverage if it gets whacked by someone or something while sitting on a ramp, or if the hanger burns or collapses.  Any mild to moderate damage while in motion I can probably fix, and I probably won't be able to care if there is major damage.  Thanks,  Jay Rowe

 

     ----- Original Message  -----

     *From:* linn <mailto:[url=mailto:pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net]pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)[/url]>

     *To:* [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url] <mailto:[url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]>

     *Sent:* Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:07 PM

     *Subject:* Re: Liability Insurance

 

     I have not-in-motion liability to meet the hangar lease

     requirements.  I dropped it from in-motion this year.  No hull for

     many  years.

     Linn

 

     partner14 wrote:

>           	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
	


href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

Don



Give Andrini and Associates a call there the best Aviation Ins. Company I

have ever used.  They might be able to save you some $$$.



I can get you the number if you would like.  I have had several planes

insured thru them, a Cardinal , the Saratoga and will do the RV-10 when I

get it done.



And by the way, It was great meeting you during the rv fly in. Your plane is

amazing and the quality of work is awesome you did a great job.  I hope mune

will turn out half as good as yours.



I did manage to get up to Vans Aircraft during my trio to Oregon, and did

the factory tour and got almost a hour in there -10. Man I did the right

thing picking the 10 I was totally amazed and am extreamly happy with my

decision.



I will stop up and pay ya a visit.  Have a great day



John G. Cumins

President

 

JC'S Interactive Systems

2499 B1 Martin Rd

Fairfield Ca 94533

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax

 

Your Total Technology Solution Provider



--

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject: Liability Insurance

John, thanks a bunch.... and also thanks for the kind words about my 10.  I try....

I looked up Andrini.... looks like a huge company.  Do they insure individuals, or just companies.  If you have a personal agent contact, that would be great.  Thanks again, Don



--- On Wed, 3/4/09, John Cumins <jcumins(at)jcis.net> wrote:

From: John Cumins <jcumins(at)jcis.net>

Subject: RE: Liability Insurance

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 12:47 PM




Don



Give Andrini and Associates a call there the best Aviation Ins. Company I

have ever used.  They might be able to save you some $$$.



I can get you the number if you would like.  I have had several planes

insured thru them, a Cardinal , the Saratoga and will do the RV-10 when I

get it done.



And by the way, It was great meeting you during the rv fly in. Your plane is

amazing and the quality of work is awesome you did a great job.  I hope mune

will turn out half as good as yours.



I did manage to get up to Vans Aircraft during my trio to Oregon, and did

the factory tour and got almost a hour in there -10. Man I did the right

thing picking the 10 I was totally amazed and am extreamly happy with my

decision.



I will stop up and pay ya a visit.  Have a great day



John G. Cumins

President



JC'S Interactive Systems

2499 B1 Martin Rd

Fairfield Ca 94533

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax



Your Total Technology Solution Provider



--

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

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