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Rate of climb

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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:51 am Post subject: Rate of climb

Kolb guys C

  

   I'm curious what you folks experience for rates of climb in your MkIII (MkII C Classics C Xtras)

  

   I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes C but I don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers.

  

   One of the reasons for my request is to satisfy my curiosity of the climb performance with various powered engines.  Example...Rotax 582.....x# fpm C    GEO (HP?)......x# fpm C Rotax 912 UL....x# fpm C  Rotax 912 ULS.....x# fpm C VW (HP?) ...x# fpm

  

   Thanks.  Your indulgence is appreciated.

  

   BTW.  For those that are interested C I completely finished painting my entire MkIII the other day (not including blue and yellow stripes).  Engine and propeller are remounted.  I fabricated a new dynafocal style radiator mount on Sunday.  (pictures available for those who ask)

  

   I want to point out the rate of climb stats I'm asking for aren't to establish bragging rights for the highest.  I realize there are a million reasons why there will be some variances. like density altitude C weight of plane and cargo C prop differences C etc.)

  

 Thanks C  Mike Welch

 MkIII

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aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:08 am Post subject: Rate of climb

Mike, at 608 lb. dry, my Mk III is a pig. I did climb tests in 2006 right after dawn when the temps were in the 80's. Didn't make any difference whether I climbed at 55 or 70 mph IAS, it came in at 500 fpm every time. Testing method:

       Establish climb at 800' agl, start stop watch at 1000' asl and time the climb to 2000'. Repeat twice for each IAS. 

Rick



 On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		        Kolb guys,

  

   I'm curious what you folks experience for rates of climb in your MkIII (MkII, Classics, Xtras)

  

   I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers.

  

   One of the reasons for my request is to satisfy my curiosity of the climb performance with various powered engines.  Example...Rotax 582.....x# fpm,    GEO (HP?)......x# fpm, Rotax 912 UL....x# fpm,  Rotax 912 ULS.....x# fpm, VW (HP?) ...x# fpm

   

   Thanks.  Your indulgence is appreciated.

  

   BTW.  For those that are interested, I completely finished painting my entire MkIII the other day (not including blue and yellow stripes).  Engine and propeller are remounted.  I fabricated a new dynafocal style radiator mount on Sunday.  (pictures available for those who ask)

   

   I want to point out the rate of climb stats I'm asking for aren't to establish bragging rights for the highest.  I realize there are a million reasons why there will be some variances. like density altitude, weight of plane and cargo, prop differences, etc.)

   

 Thanks,  Mike Welch

 MkIII



Windows Live™ Contacts: Organize your contact list.  [url=http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009]Check it out.[/url]  ==== get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution  [/b] 	


[b]

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: Rate of climb

PS, it's 582 powered.



Rick



On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		       Kolb guys,

  

   I'm curious what you folks experience for rates of climb in your MkIII (MkII, Classics, Xtras)

  

   I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers.

  

   One of the reasons for my request is to satisfy my curiosity of the climb performance with various powered engines.  Example...Rotax 582.....x# fpm,    GEO (HP?)......x# fpm, Rotax 912 UL....x# fpm,  Rotax 912 ULS.....x# fpm, VW (HP?) ...x# fpm

   

   Thanks.  Your indulgence is appreciated.

  

   BTW.  For those that are interested, I completely finished painting my entire MkIII the other day (not including blue and yellow stripes).  Engine and propeller are remounted.  I fabricated a new dynafocal style radiator mount on Sunday.  (pictures available for those who ask)

   

   I want to point out the rate of climb stats I'm asking for aren't to establish bragging rights for the highest.  I realize there are a million reasons why there will be some variances. like density altitude, weight of plane and cargo, prop differences, etc.)

   

 Thanks,  Mike Welch

 MkIII



Windows Live™ Contacts: Organize your contact list.  [url=http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009]Check it out.[/url]  ==== get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution  [/b] 	


[b]

robcannon

Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 39
Location: British Columbia

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Rate of climb

My Twinstar mark II with the HKS gets around 900 fpm at 50 to 60 mph. This is at about 700 lbs.

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: rate of climb

I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers.  

Mike Welch  

   

   

On my mkIII C   I have the 912  and 68 inch Warp Drive propl….   And since I have never been to sea level…  I went the opposite way and tested at altitude.  

   

Between 9500 ft and 10000 ft. solo takes 1 min    or 500 ft/min  

Between 9500 ft and 10000 ft. with 2 on board, very near max  wt.   it takes 2 min.  or 250 ft/min  

There may be some way to calculate what it would do at sea level…   but I don’t know the formula.  

   

Boyd Young  

Kolb MKIIIC  

Brigham City Ut.  

   

   

       [quote][b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Rate of climb

At sea level on a hot humid day, my MK III Xtra with the Rotax 912-s climbs at 1000 feet a minute with 2 people, around 1400 FPM when I am alone, and 10 gallons of fuel.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:17 am Post subject: Rate of climb

At 588 lbs empty, w/ Rotax 912ULS, 3-blade Warp drive prop and just me and 12 gallons, I routinely get 900-1100 fpm, but if I'm trying hard and right on the edge, I can do 1400fpm.



  -- Robert

 On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]      Kolb guys,

  

   I'm curious what you folks experience for rates of climb in your MkIII (MkII, Classics, Xtras)

  

   I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers.

  

   One of the reasons for my request is to satisfy my curiosity of the climb performance with various powered engines.  Example...Rotax 582.....x# fpm,    GEO (HP?)......x# fpm, Rotax 912 UL....x# fpm,  Rotax 912 ULS.....x# fpm, VW (HP?) ...x# fpm

   

   Thanks.  Your indulgence is appreciated.

  

   BTW.  For those that are interested, I completely finished painting my entire MkIII the other day (not including blue and yellow stripes).  Engine and propeller are remounted.  I fabricated a new dynafocal style radiator mount on Sunday.  (pictures available for those who ask)

   

   I want to point out the rate of climb stats I'm asking for aren't to establish bragging rights for the highest.  I realize there are a million reasons why there will be some variances. like density altitude, weight of plane and cargo, prop differences, etc.)

   

 Thanks,  Mike Welch

 MkIII



Windows Live™ Contacts: Organize your contact list.  Check it out.   	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

apilot(at)surewest.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: Rate of climb

Mark III, Classic with a Geo engine with windage tray and Raven furnished cam gets 400 ft/min at density altitude of around 6000' msl.  The gross weight is 840 lbs.  At a gross weight of 1030 lbs., the rate of climb is 100 ft/min or less.  In summary, it is scary.  Do not know what it will do at sea level, but the thrust is significantly more.  Static thrust at 6000 msl is 307 lbs. and at sea level it is off of my scale which ends at about 320 lbs.  The Geo is a super engine and the Raven belt re-drive is very smooth and reliable.  Hopefully, I will get the plane down to Sacramento for some sea level testing.  I am guessing that my rate of climb will be around 800 ft/min.  We shall see. Vic N4201G

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject: Rate of climb

Mike

  

 I have never measured the climb rate of my VW powered  MKIIIC. I would guess it would be right even with or slightly less than a 80HP.  Rotax. I also rate my engine at 80HP but that is a guesstimate

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

  

 [quote]   ---

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: Rate of climb

At 08:48 AM 3/10/2009, Mike Welch wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		     I've heard of the great climb performance of the Kolb airplanes, but I 

 don't recall seeing very many "real life" established numbers.


	


I know you only asked about MKIII's, but for sake of comparison, my Cuyuna 

powered UltraStar does 500fpm at about 40-45mph, on a warm day with 475# AUW.



-Dana

--

  Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I.

Jimmy Young

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Rate of climb

Mike,



Robert Laird will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but last November we were both in his 912S powered MK III, climbing out at over 1100 fpm on an 80 degree mid-day flight, & I know we have to weigh over 440 lbs combined.



 (Pretty evenly split between us by the way, and there won't be any downward corrections regarding the weight!)

_________________
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: Rate of climb

That's correct.   Field elevation is about 235 MSL.



 On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Jimmy Young <jdy100(at)comcast.net (jdy100(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100(at)comcast.net (jdy100(at)comcast.net)>

 

Mike,



Robert Laird will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but last November we were both in his 912S powered MK III, climbing out at over 1100 fpm on an 80 degree mid-day flight, & I know we have to weigh over 440 lbs combined.

 

 (Pretty evenly split between us by the way, and there won't be any downward corrections regarding the weight!)



--------

Jimmy Young

FS II, Generac V-Twin

Houston TX area





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[b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Rate of climb

MKIII Classic. Various mods, center section of wing is separate from fuselage, has VG's, other mods. Empty weight about 535. Using a 582 with a 2 blade 68" Ivo, 2.58:1 B box, solo with full fuel on a summer day typically gives a climb rate of around 800-900'/minute(at)6250 rpm. In the winter, a climb rate of 1000-1200'/min (at) 6250 rpm, all at between 2-3,000 msl.

grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Rate of climb

Mark III Classic: Gross weight full fuel on takeoff 735 pounds powered by a Rotax 503 DCDI Climb is from 600 to 660 fpm solo. I would guess 1/3 that for 2 people.

My average full power climb rate according to the gps during takeoff was 658 feet per minute at an average ground speed of 43.5 miles per hour. 



Temperature was about 69 degrees( weather channel says 73o during 3 pm however my house outside thermometer had a overall high of 69.8 for the day.) and the field elevation is around 460 MSL 



My average speed on my trip during cruise was 54 mph. 



Grant

 

 

Here are some more numbers from my gps from 11/9/2008. 

My average full power climb rate according to the gps during takeoff was 617 feet per minute at an average ground speed of 41.7 miles per hour. Indicated climb out of 60mph. The plane stalls at 41 indicated. 



Gross weight full fuel on takeoff 735 pounds 

Temperature was 64 degrees during 4 pm with 9 mph winds gusting to 15 at 280o. 

I was using runway 23 so it was a good crosswind. 



field elevation around 460msl 



My  gps  took 56 measurements in 5250 feet. 



I did a more detailed analysis of my climb rate and the  average is 617 feet per minute out of 56 rate calculations : 

750.00 

720.00 

750.00 50 agl 519 msl 

720.00 

740.00 

745.71 

742.50 

733.33 

744.00 

763.64 

750.00 

715.71 

701.25 

673.33 202 agl 671 msl 

651.00 

651.43 

636.52 

619.20 

620.00 

622.76 

624.00 

611.25 

600.00 

591.43 345 agl 814 msl 

590.27 

592.31 

588.00 

583.90 

581.43 

583.26 

577.33 

577.83 

575.74 

573.06 

563.53 

560.77 

563.77 

569.45 

572.14 

567.93 

568.00 

564.19 

563.44 

565.85 

568.66 

566.09 

559.44 

555.62 

554.59 

554.21 

553.08 

547.50 

544.39 

539.29 

533.72 

530.34 at 769 agl 1238 msl

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: Rate of climb

Grant C

  

   Wow!  Such detail!  

  

   Thanks to you and the other guys that took the time to share your plane's performance.  This is valuable information.  I'm getting a pretty good idea of the vertical speed capabilities of the different engines on a MkIII (and some other Kolb models).

  

 Mike

 MkIIICX

 Painted C Turbo GEO C mounted and getting final touches (like radiator..done C intercooler...underway C etc)

  

 

 

[quote] Mark III Classic: Gross weight full fuel on takeoff 735 pounds powered by a Rotax 503 DCDI Climb is from 600 to 660 fpm solo. I would guess 1/3 that for 2 people.

 

 

 My average full power climb rate according to the gps during takeoff was 658 feet per minute at an average ground speed of 43.5 miles per hour. 

 

 Temperature was about 69 degrees( weather channel says 73o during 3 pm however my house outside thermometer had a overall high of 69.8 for the day.) and the field elevation is around 460 MSL 

 

 My average speed on my trip during cruise was 54 mph. 

 

 Grant

Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.  Find out more.   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: Rate of climb

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED  

 

  

Mike:  Here are my "real life" numbers.  

   

   

Mark-III “Classic”  

Empty wt - 560 lbs  

Field elevation (this is important, for comparing) – 6500’ msl  

Engine - 912ul (80 hp)  

Climb rate (solo) – 700 fpm  

RPM – 5200 (wide open throttle)  

Indicated Airspeed – 55 mph  

   

   

I like to think my Kolb would yield higher climb rates at lower elevations, but the lowest-elevation airfield I’ve ever been to was 4830’ msl.  Man, I bet my Kolb would do GREAT in Florida!  

   

Dennis Kirby  

New Mexico  

   

      

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED   

 

  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: Rate of climb

 	  Quote: 	
		   I like to think my Kolb would yield higher climb rates at lower

 elevations, but the lowest-elevation airfield I've ever been to was

 4830' msl.  Man, I bet my Kolb would do GREAT in Florida!

 

  

 

 Dennis Kirby

 


	


You would think you had a sky rocket, Dennis!!!



Engine produces a lot more power, and the air lifts a lot more.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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