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Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)

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saolesen(at)sirentel.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)

Has anyone taken the Advanced Pilot seminar for running lean of peak,  

either in person or on the web?  Was it worth the $$s?

Sheldon Olesen

N475PV-- 10.0 hours

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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)

I talked to my Lycoming rep for the IO540 I got fom Vans; They recommend

only running at peak EGT of first cylinder to peak. If you run lean of peak

by all means get it right. $2 per hour gas saving won't compensate for a

damaged engine. 



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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)

While I agree that you want to get it right, $2/hr gas savings

is way way off the mark.  I find that 3-4gph is the savings,

and even at today's once-again-lower prices, that's somewhere

in the neighborhood of $10-15/hr lower fuel cost.  Even at

100 hours per year, you're saving enough to buy a new cylinder

every season.  At 1/2 TBO, that could be $10-15,000 in savings

from just the fuel alone, which covers a lot of the cost of

the overhaul.  So there is significant savings, and significant

environmental, and significant range benefit.



But, you do want to get all the info you can, and do it right.

Fortunately there is a lot of good info out there.



In very very general terms, my take on it is "Stay below 65%

power, and run at least 25degF LOP on all cylinders (25-50F

common) and you'll be in pretty good shape".



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

David McNeill wrote:

[quote] 

 

 I talked to my Lycoming rep for the IO540 I got fom Vans; They recommend

 only running at peak EGT of first cylinder to peak. If you run lean of peak

 by all means get it right. $2 per hour gas saving won't compensate for a

 damaged engine. 

 

 --

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Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)

Wow!. That setting is about the WORST place you can run your engine.

When the first cylinder peaks, it means the others are 10-40 ROP, the

absolute hottest and highest pressure place you could possibly run

your engine. Either go 80-150 ROP if at above 70% power, or go an

appropriate amount LOP using the LAST cylinder to peak, thus ensuring

ALL cylinders are safely LOP.

The Lycoming rep that attends most shows simply doesn't have a clue

about LOP operations and blames a lot of cylinder problems on LOP,

when they in fact were either not lean enough or not rich enough.

The TIO-540 used in the Mooney Bravo is one of the few engines that

won't run reliably LOP, because they use Slick mags that don't deliver

a consistent enough spark timing.

I run my IO-360 Lycoming LOP whenever it is advantageous to do so. I

have over 600 hours doing so.



On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007(at)cox.net> wrote:

[quote] 



 I talked to my Lycoming rep for the IO540 I got fom Vans; They recommend

 only running at peak EGT of first cylinder to peak. If you run lean of peak

 by all means get it right. $2 per hour gas saving won't compensate for a

 damaged engine.



 --

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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)

Whoa!  Why would anyone pay good money for learning about running 'lean 

of peak'???  If you google 'lean of peak' by itself you get *4,370,000 

*hits for your reading pleasure*!!!  *Of course some of them are for 

gamers ...  

I understand that it might be tough to separate the real skinny (old 

navy term) from the true lies, but you should be able to get some good 

info from all those hits.  The first big one is  .... running lean of 

peak is only for injected engines .... carbs have poor fuel distribution 

and therefore aren't eligible.



Do you have some specific questions or concerns???

Linn



Sheldon Olesen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Has anyone taken the Advanced Pilot seminar for running lean of peak, 

 either in person or on the web?  Was it worth the $$s?

 Sheldon Olesen

 N475PV-- 10.0 hours

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)

My only comment is on the Lycoming rep:  When I told one I was running 

my Pitts (O-360) on hi-test mogas, his comment was...... that's 

impossible.  But until the alcohol problem, that's all it drank for 

almost 38 years!!!  The Lycoming reps parrot the 'party line' and 

disavow any knowledge of operations outside the printed documentation.  

It's a liability problem.  Ask users what they do, and you'll get a 

better, more accurate answer. 

Because I didn't have a starter in my Pitts for 13 years, keeping the 

rocks (lead) out of my plugs made starting easier, and mogas doesn't 

have any lead.  Starting was much easier and I didn't have to clean the 

plugs every 10-15 hours.  This was before mogas STCs.  I did have to 

move up to hi-test though, because when the engine got hot while I was 

exploring extreme unusual attitudes the engine would ping.   But when I 

pointed the nose straight up, it went straight up .... for a long ways.  

When I rebuilt the engine due to metal fatigue failure of the prop 

flange, the engine was surprisingly in good shape.  Surprising because I 

ran the dog poop (OK, I'm being nice here) out of it!

Linn

Kelly McMullen wrote:

[quote] 

 Wow!. That setting is about the WORST place you can run your engine.

 When the first cylinder peaks, it means the others are 10-40 ROP, the

 absolute hottest and highest pressure place you could possibly run

 your engine. Either go 80-150 ROP if at above 70% power, or go an

 appropriate amount LOP using the LAST cylinder to peak, thus ensuring

 ALL cylinders are safely LOP.

 The Lycoming rep that attends most shows simply doesn't have a clue

 about LOP operations and blames a lot of cylinder problems on LOP,

 when they in fact were either not lean enough or not rich enough.

 The TIO-540 used in the Mooney Bravo is one of the few engines that

 won't run reliably LOP, because they use Slick mags that don't deliver

 a consistent enough spark timing.

 I run my IO-360 Lycoming LOP whenever it is advantageous to do so. I

 have over 600 hours doing so.

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM, David McNeill <dlm46007(at)cox.net> wrote:

> 

>

> I talked to my Lycoming rep for the IO540 I got fom Vans; They recommend

> only running at peak EGT of first cylinder to peak. If you run lean of peak

> by all means get it right. $2 per hour gas saving won't compensate for a

> damaged engine.

>

> --

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msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)

Lyc has to keep that revenue stream up somehow.  



Do not archive



--

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timrvator(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:26 am Post subject: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)

I have not (yet).  Aviation Consumer had great things to say about the 

seminar in the last issue of the magazine.



-- 

Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)

RV-6A N47TD -- 1000 hrs

RV-10 #40059 under construction (paint prep)



Sheldon Olesen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Has anyone taken the Advanced Pilot seminar for running lean of peak, 

 either in person or on the web?  Was it worth the $$s?

 Sheldon Olesen

 N475PV-- 10.0 hours

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Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:50 am Post subject: Advance pilot seminar (lean of peak)

We endorse the program for anyone looking to learn better engine

management techniques.  The engineers at GAMI are some of the most

knowledgeable that we have ever had the opportunity to work with.  All

of our engine builders have attended the seminar and learned a great

deal.  



That being said, I'm sure that George and Co. are not on Lycoming or

TCM's Christmas list!



Rhonda



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