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denis.walsh(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

If you are referring to the fuel selector valve, here is my 2c  worht:



Some where over the years, Van's changed the fuel selector.  It still  

looks and operates the same; however it has a nylon inside part that  

does not seize up like the older models.  If you buy a new one it  

should be an easy replacement, and they are no where near as expensive  

as the Andair.  I greatly admire the Andair.   It is a beautiful piece  

of equipment, but the cheap one I have does just fine.



My 12-14 year old valve still works fine.  It has the plastic guts in  

it. (It has been exercised pretty regularly since I fly more than  

most.)  On the other hand I don't change tanks very often, either.

Denis   1997 RV-6A.



  2300 hours now, and just put the 9th set of tires on it.

On Mar 14, 2009, at 6:05 , bert murillo wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi:



 My fuel pump is getting harder to turn.. Have the original that came

 with the kit from Van's, for my rv6a.



 I hate to think I have to buy a new one... does any one know a way to

 loosing it up?  Oil?  I see posting for new  pums, they call the

 Alder I believe... the price too much for me..



 Then what happen, you have to change all the lines, or it would be

 same as the one from Van's?  I do not want to have to

 change anything on the fuel lines...



 Suggtestions or info., will be appreciate it....lMaybe the best is to

 buy one again from Van's no? it did not last four years.....

 Bert



 rv6a



 do not archive

JFLEISC(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:20 am Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

I agree with Denis. I had the old valve. Every year I had to do the "lube  maintenance" on it with the 'Fuel Proof' grease (available from Aircraft Spruce.  1 can will last you 2000 years). Last year I did some major airframe updates and  the Van's valve was one of them. Cheap, excellent fix.

  

 Jim

 Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession.

  [quote][b]

mr.sun

Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 85

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

How do I tell which valve is in my 2003 RV7?  



On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 4:14 AM,  <JFLEISC(at)aol.com (JFLEISC(at)aol.com)> wrote:

[quote]      I agree with Denis. I had the old valve. Every year I had to do the "lube  maintenance" on it with the 'Fuel Proof' grease (available from Aircraft Spruce.  1 can will last you 2000 years). Last year I did some major airframe updates and  the Van's valve was one of them. Cheap, excellent fix.

  

 Jim



  Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession.

   	  Quote: 	
		  



t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

_________________
Greg RV-7

Gary.A.Sobek

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Location: SoCAL USA

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

I made my first flight in my RV-6 back in 1997 and had upgraded to the new valve before I flew.  Van started shipping the new nylon cone valve in all new kits before I made my first flight.



I remember upgrading to the new nylon cone valve after this 1993 fatal accident before I made my first flight.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X13868&key=1



The valve was not the cause of the accident but I knew the pilot / builder.



From the NTSB report:

Examination of the fuel selector revealed that it was not fire damaged. The selector handle was noted to be broken and in transit between the right fuel tank and the engine feed line.



The OLD valve did not have a POSITIVE DETENT when moving between positions. The NEW NYLON cone valve does have positive detent in each position.  If your valve shipped with the kit has a positive detent C it is the nylon cone. If it does not have a positive detent C then it is the old brass cone valve.  If you do not know what a postive detent feels like C take the valve apart and inspect the cone. The brass cone is brass colored. The nylon cone is white colored.

Gary A. Sobek 

"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell C  

2 C201+ Flying Hours So. CA C USA 



Date: Sun C 15 Mar 2009 07:51:27 -0800

Subject: Re: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com



How do I tell which valve is in my 2003 RV7?  



On Sun C Mar 15 C 2009 at 4:14 AM C  <JFLEISC(at)aol.com (JFLEISC(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		        I agree with Denis. I had the old valve. Every year I had to do the "lube  maintenance" on it with the 'Fuel Proof' grease (available from Aircraft Spruce.  1 can will last you 2000 years). Last year I did some major airframe updates and  the Van's valve was one of them. Cheap C excellent fix.

  

 Jim



  Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession.

   	  Quote: 	
		  t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 	




<//www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R========== 	
Windows Live™ Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. Check it out.  [quote][b]

bertrv6(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:22 am Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

Thanks Dennis, for the input..

Bert

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 If you are referring to the fuel selector valve, here is my 2c  worht:

 Some where over the years, Van's changed the fuel selector.  It still looks

 and operates the same; however it has a nylon inside part that does not

 seize up like the older models.  If you buy a new one it should be an easy

 replacement, and they are no where near as expensive as the Andair.  I

 greatly admire the Andair.   It is a beautiful piece of equipment, but the

 cheap one I have does just fine.

 My 12-14 year old valve still works fine.  It has the plastic guts in it.

 (It has been exercised pretty regularly since I fly more than most.)  On the

 other hand I don't change tanks very often, either.

 Denis   1997 RV-6A.

  2300 hours now, and just put the 9th set of tires on it.

 On Mar 14, 2009, at 6:05 , bert murillo wrote:

> 

>

> Hi:

>

> My fuel pump is getting harder to turn.. Have the original that came

> with the kit from Van's, for my rv6a.

>

> I hate to think I have to buy a new one... does any one know a way to

> loosing it up?  Oil?  I see posting for new  pums, they call the

> Alder I believe... the price too much for me..

>

> Then what happen, you have to change all the lines, or it would be

> same as the one from Van's?  I do not want to have to

> change anything on the fuel lines...

>

> Suggtestions or info., will be appreciate it....lMaybe the best is to

> buy one again from Van's no? it did not last four years.....

> Bert

>

> rv6a

>

> do not archive

>

>

timb

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 77
Location: Frankston, Texas

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

I may have one of those newer valves I never used.  I know where it is and I will inspect it.  If the one I have is the newer one, you are welcome to it.  

     

Tim Bryan  

RV-6 Flying  

N616TB over 120 hours now  

  

         

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer

 Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:47 AM

 To: RV List

 Subject: RE: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)  

  

  

   

I made my first flight in my RV-6 back in 1997 and had upgraded to the new valve before I flew.  Van started shipping the new nylon cone valve in all new kits before I made my first flight.

 

 I remember upgrading to the new nylon cone valve after this 1993 fatal accident before I made my first flight.

 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X13868&key=1

 

 The valve was not the cause of the accident but I knew the pilot / builder.

 

 >From the NTSB report:

 Examination of the fuel selector revealed that it was not fire damaged. The selector handle was noted to be broken and in transit between the right fuel tank and the engine feed line.

 

 The OLD valve did not have a POSITIVE DETENT when moving between positions. The NEW NYLON cone valve does have positive detent in each position.  If your valve shipped with the kit has a positive detent, it is the nylon cone. If it does not have a positive detent, then it is the old brass cone valve.  If you do not know what a postive detent feels like, take the valve apart and inspect the cone. The brass cone is brass colored. The nylon cone is white colored.

 

 

 Gary A. Sobek 

 "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 

 2,201+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA 

 

 

       

  

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 07:51:27 -0800

 Subject: Re: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

 From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 

 How do I tell which valve is in my 2003 RV7?      

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 4:14 AM, <JFLEISC(at)aol.com (JFLEISC(at)aol.com)> wrote:      

I agree with Denis. I had the old valve. Every year I had to do the "lube maintenance" on it with the 'Fuel Proof' grease (available from Aircraft Spruce. 1 can will last you 2000 years). Last year I did some major airframe updates and the Van's valve was one of them. Cheap, excellent fix.  

    

   

    

Jim  

    

       

  

Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession.  

   	  Quote: 	
		  



t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution 	


  

  

  

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_________________
Tim Bryan
RV-6 Flying
N616TB

pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pet
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

Periodic lubrication of the fuel selector valve appears to be necessary

to prevent failure.  Using an improper grease can still allow corrosion

to cause the selector valve to fail..



An example is the John Denver crash. The fuel selector valve in John

Denver's Long-Eze failed leaving him unable to switch to his other tank

which had about 45 minutes of remaining fuel. During post-crash NTSB

testing the valve flowed fine from the empty tank but would not flow

from the other tank with the remaining fuel where the valve was pointed.

Before his last flight a witness who worked the fuel truck at the

Monterey FBO watched him starting his engine.  It cranked first without

starting, then John Denver reached around to the bulkhead behind his

shoulder and turned the fuel selector valve and resumed cranking and the

engine caught.  He intended to do practice touch and goes and purposely

did not want full tanks.  When one tank ran out he tried to switch tanks

and being unsuccessful in restarting the engine he unfortunately did not

quit troubleshooting and "fly the airplane."  



The valve used in John Denver's plane had failed hundreds of times in

other planes over the years due to improper maintenance.  Expert A&P

witnesses confirmed that no instruction on proper lubricants had ever

been issued. The company agreed to belatedly send out a maintenance

notice specifying the proper type of lubricant to service their fuel

selector valve as part of their settlement with the Denver family.  Be

sure to confirm what lubricant should be used on your particular fuel

selector valve.



Checking both tank levels before flight doesn't help if you can't get to

he fuel.  A lesson learned is to switch tanks before running one tank so

low you don't have enough fuel to make it to the next airport with fuel

if you can't get to your fuller tank.



Pete Cowper

RV8 #81139

Lawyer-Pilots Bar Association Member

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

Pete Cowper wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Periodic lubrication of the fuel selector valve appears to be necessary

to prevent failure.  Using an improper grease can still allow corrosion

to cause the selector valve to fail..



An example is the John Denver crash. The fuel selector valve in John

Denver's Long-Eze failed leaving him unable to switch to his other tank

which had about 45 minutes of remaining fuel.




	


I do not believe you are stating all of the fact sir, while the 

investgators could not move the valve after the crash

it was not a failed valve that caused the crash.  It was Mr Denvers 

inability to reach the valve at the location

where it was mounted that caused the crash, even when he added vice 

grips to the valve he still could not reach

without physically turning his body which in turn caused aggresive 

control inputs. It was testified that the valve worked

although stiff with good dentents before the crash.

To blindly blame the valve I guess is a lawyer tactic.



Jerry

  PROBABLE CAUSE



The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause 

of this accident was the pilot's diversion of attention from the 

operation of the airplane and his inadvertent application of right 

rudder that resulted in the loss of airplane control while attempting to 

manipulate the fuel selector handle. Also, the Board determines that the 

pilot's inadequate preflight planning and preparations, specifically his 

failure to refuel the airplane, was causal. The Board determines that 

the builder's decision to locate the unmarked fuel selector handle in a 

hard-to-access position, unmarked fuel quantity sight gauges, inadequate 

transition training by the pilot, and his lack of total experience in 

this type of airplane were factors in this acccident.

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

Thanks Jerry. I too took exception to the inference of a stuck valve rather than the facts as I had read them years ago.  It is a good thing to review builder planning and sound maintenance practices.

  

 Facts should always win out over speculation and inference.  Nice work.

  



  John Cox



 

  From: Jerry Springer

Sent: Mon 3/16/2009 10:01 PM

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

 [quote]--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>



Pete Cowper wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pete Cowper)



Periodic lubrication of the fuel selector valve appears to be necessary

to prevent failure.  Using an improper grease can still allow corrosion

to cause the selector valve to fail..



An example is the John Denver crash. The fuel selector valve in John

Denver's Long-Eze failed leaving him unable to switch to his other tank

which had about 45 minutes of remaining fuel.




	


I do not believe you are stating all of the fact sir, while the 

investgators could not move the valve after the crash

it was not a failed valve that caused the crash.  It was Mr Denvers 

inability to reach the valve at the location

where it was mounted that caused the crash, even when he added vice 

grips to the valve he still could not reach

without physically turning his body which in turn caused aggresive 

control inputs. It was testified that the valve worked

although stiff with good dentents before the crash.

To blindly blame the valve I guess is a lawyer tactic.



Jerry

  PROBABLE CAUSE



The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause 

of this accident was the pilot's diversion of attention from the 

operation of the airplane and his inadvertent application of right 

rudder that resulted in the loss of airplane control while attempting to 

manipulate the fuel selector handle. Also, the Board determines that the 

pilot's inadequate preflight planning and preparations, specifically his 

failure to refuel the airplane, was causal. The Board determines that 

the builder's decision to locate the unmarked fuel selector handle in a 

hard-to-access position, unmarked fuel quantity sight gauges, inadequate 

transition training by the pilot, and his lack of total experience in 

this type of airplane were factors in this acccident.





[b]

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

So what is the proper maintenance procedure and grease for these fuel  valves?

  

 If you say "grease it" be clearer.  Do you have to physically remove  the rotating

 part?

  

 Ron Lee

 [quote] [b]

Ed Anderson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

Just as a side note:  I have used Van's Brass ball selector for over 10

years.  There is no question it can be very stiff to operate - even at best.

I have noticed that if I fly with 100 LL the valve operates nicely and

without excessive force required.   However, if I fly with a tank or two of

automobile gasoline, the valve will become very hard to rotate.



I suspect that the lubricating quality of the lead in the 100LL may help it

turn easier and of course after a couple of tanks of no-lead auto gasoline

the lead is washed off the brass ball.



Ed



Ed Anderson



Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered



Matthews, NC



eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com



http://www.andersonee.com



http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html



http://www.flyrotary.com/



http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW



http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

--

_________________
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

Ron Lee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   So what is the proper maintenance procedure and grease for these fuel 

 valves?

  

 If you say "grease it" be clearer.  Do you have to physically remove 

 the rotating

 part?

  

 Ron Lee



      



Short answer: yes.
	


I can't address 'proper maintenance procedure', but when mine started to 

get tight enough to worry me, I removed the 'core' (rotating part) & 

found a match head sized bit of the lubricant still on the bottom of the 

core between the taper & the threads. I spread it on the taper, placed 

the core back in the housing & rotated it a few times to spread the 

lubricant, & reassembled the valve.



Charlie

panamared505(at)brier.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:41 am Post subject: on Fuel Pump (fuel selector valve?)

With auto fuel I use Marvel Mystery Oil, no problems turing the selector.



Bob

RV6 'Wicked Witch of the West

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I suspect that the lubricating quality of the lead in the 100LL may help 

 it

 turn easier and of course after a couple of tanks of no-lead auto gasoline

 the lead is washed off the brass ball.

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