Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Jabiru
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

rsanoa

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Bell Buckle,TN

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: Jabiru

Just a bit of trivia.  For you guys that have given any thought to the Jabiru engine.  Down at their facility here at the Shelbyville airport, they released sales figures for 2005 and 45 aircraft have been assembled and flown away by happy owners in the year.  They have one model using the 120 HP engine that cruises at 185 mph. Their 85 HP is getting a good play also.  Back logged now on new orders and asking the airport for larger space.There should be a KOLB usage somewhere in there.

   

  Can't use one on the UltraStar I'm afraid.

  Ray

  Tenn ..UltraStar

  do not archive



		

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze.

_________________
Ray S.Anderson

flykolb(at)pa.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject: Jabiru

Well, it would be lighter than a Soobie, and who says you need to use full

power anyway?



Dennis



Just a bit of trivia.  For you guys that have given any thought to the

Jabiru engine ...



   

  Can't use one on the UltraStar I'm afraid.

  Ray

  Tenn ..UltraStar

  do not archive

neilsenrmf(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: Jabiru

Ray



There is a reason we don't see many Jabiru's on Kolbs. They just don't have 

the thrust to make a Kolb a great STOL airplane. They are really great 

engines and maybe a 85 HP Jabiru on a smaller Kolb or a 120 on a MKIII or 

Kolbra might work but why not use a reduction drive engine that would 

produce the same thrust at lower weight and use less fuel. It takes a lot 

more horse power to produce the same thrust when your engine is turning the 

prop in the 3000 plus RPM range.



I flew my Kolb MKIII for four years with a direct drive VW. The plane flew 

but just didn't have that effort less climb out and spirited overall 

performance that you get with a high thrust engine. The same engine with a 

reduction drive (an apples to apples comparison) transformed my MKIIIc from 

a OK airplane to a KOLB. Put a reduction drive on a Jabiru and you might 

have some serious competition for Rotax.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIc



---

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Jabiru

You could not give me the Jabiru engine.  Just looking at it and it looks like it has been machined and manufactured in someones garage.  The technology used in that engine is downright primitive compared to the Rotax 912-S.   Reading reports from owners, the Jabiru has a lot more problems than the Rotax 912-S.  



There are lots of disadvantages to the Jabiru, and I cant find even one thing that engine does better than the Rotax.

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: Jabiru

Now, THere's a thought................! ! !              Do not Archive.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

Kirk Smith

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 78
Location: SE Michigan

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: Jabiru

Only know of one Jabiru engine on a Mark 3. Actually the same engine on 

two Mark 3's. Both of them crashed...........



Do not

archive

rsanoa

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Bell Buckle,TN

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: Jabiru

I guess it's in the beholders eye, or is the glass half full or half empty. The engines I've looked at impressed me with their sleek, trim appearance. If one can push their little airplane along at 185 mph on 120 hp, I'm impressed.

  do not archive. 



JetPilot <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

  



You could not give me the Jabiru engine. Just looking at it and it looks like it has been machined and manufactured in someones garage. The technology used in that engine is downright primitive compared to the Rotax 912-S. Reading reports from owners, the Jabiru has a lot more problems than the Rotax 912-S. 



There are lots of disadvantages to the Jabiru, and I cant find even one thing that engine does better than the Rotax.



--------

NO FEAR - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23353#23353

		

---------------------------------

_________________
Ray S.Anderson

rsanoa

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Bell Buckle,TN

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: Jabiru

I've heard of a few with Rotax engines that crashed.

  do not archive



snuffy(at)usol.com wrote:

  



Only know of one Jabiru engine on a Mark 3. Actually the same engine on 

two Mark 3's. Both of them crashed...........



Do not

archive



		

---------------------------------

 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

_________________
Ray S.Anderson

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: Jabiru

On Mar 22, 2006, at 12:43 AM, JetPilot wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   You could not give me the Jabiru engine.  Just looking at it and it  

 looks like it has been machined and manufactured in someones  

 garage.  The technology used in that engine is downright primitive  

 compared to the Rotax 912-S.   Reading reports from owners, the  

 Jabiru has a lot more problems than the Rotax 912-S.



 There are lots of disadvantages to the Jabiru, and I cant find even  

 one thing that engine does better than the Rotax.


	




Some sane people fly with Jabiru engines and like them.

Earl Zimmerman

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Elizabethtown, PA

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: Jabiru

JetPilot wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   There are lots of disadvantages to the Jabiru, and I cant find even one thing that engine does better than the Rotax.

 

Then you never experienced one idling on the ramp beside you!! One of 
	


the locals has one on a Slingshot and it purrs like a kitten at idle. 

NEVER seen a Rotax do that!?     ~ Earl

Kirk Smith

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 78
Location: SE Michigan

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: Jabiru

 	  Quote: 	
		   -- Kolb-List message posted by: ray anderson 

rsanoa(at)yahoo.com
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I've heard of a few with Rotax engines that crashed.

   do not archive


	




I know of many Mark 3's with Rotax's that are flying. Know of any 

with Jabiru's that are flying?



Do not

archive

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: Jabiru

| Some sane people fly with Jabiru engines and like them.

|



I have a buddy that flew his Jabiru powered, direct drive Kolb Kolbra 

in 48 States without a hitch.  In fact, several of us on the Kolb List 

landed with John Williamson at Oshkosh 2003 (?) as he tallied up State 

Number 48.  One of those Kolbs, escorting John W was a VW powered 

MKIII with a redrive.  Another aircraft was a Kit Fox with a 532 or a 

582.



Most Kolb folks don't care what each other fly.  It all boils down to 

what we want to do and what we can afford to do.



I remember flying my MKIII with 582 initially.  Was as happy as I 

could be flying with a two stroke that had dual ignition, oil 

injection, water cooled and 65 hp.  In fact, was planning on making my 

first flight to Alaska with that engine.  Unfortunately, it broke, and 

Homer Kolb recommended I fly to Alaska with a 912.  Course when it 

came down to paying for the new 912 it became my responsibility 

entirely.  I was so broke I could not pay attention.  Finally, figured 

out a way to get me a 912.  Got a new credit card, charged the engine 

on the new credit card and paid minimum payments until I could do 

better.  That was Fall 1993.



We ended up installing the first 912 on a MKIII and flying it the 

first of April 1994.  First week of June, two months later, and we 

were winging our way to Alaska.



I think I appreciate what I have to work for the most, much more than 

what is easy to obtain.  It is still that way today.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: Jabiru

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 On Mar 22, 2006, at 12:43 AM, JetPilot wrote:



> You could not give me the Jabiru engine.

If you know of any free ones let me know.  I'll take them.
	




do not archive

 	  Quote:

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Jabiru

Ray,



What aircraft and model is it that makes 185 on that jabby? Is it a Sonex  by chance?

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

rsanoa

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Bell Buckle,TN

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:08 am Post subject: Jabiru

It's their own design. A low wing super slick and it can use either the 85 hp or the 120 hp and with that it cruises at 185. 

  do not archive.



Don G <donghe(at)one-eleven.net> wrote:

  



Ray,



What aircraft and model is it that makes 185 on that jabby? Is it a Sonex by chance?



--------

Don G

FireFly#098



http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23448#23448

		

---------------------------------

 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

_________________
Ray S.Anderson

n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: Jabiru

You could not give me the Jabiru engine.  Just looking at it and it

looks like it has been machined and manufactured in someones garage.

The technology used in that engine is downright primitive compared to

the Rotax 912-S.   Reading reports from owners, the Jabiru has a lot

more problems than the Rotax 912-S.  



There are lots of disadvantages to the Jabiru, and I cant find even one

thing that engine does better than the Rotax.



<SNIP>

Hummmm... let me try to be polite...



Have you ever seen one?  Of the several that I have seen and couple that

I flew with, I was MIGHTY impressed.  For the right airframe they are

great engines...as Rick has already stated the high revs of the engine

kinda dictate the sleeker airframes to let the airspeeds get up where a

short prop is more efficient...



Now on the "machined in someone's garage" point...al I can say is "horse

crap" (and I mean that as polite and unoffensive as I can)  The Jabiru

engine is so much a work of art from a machinist standpoint I almost

wouldn't know whether to run it or build a glass box to sit it in in my

living room.  BEAUTIFUL machining...if you think that is garage work

then you don't know anything about machine work.  Absolute CNC machined

perfection...friend of mine that's building a Sonex commented how little

work it would take to actually polish the case to a mirror shine...what

more you want from an engine?



As far as the technology is concerned...how many 80hp 4 stroke engines

out there that weight 123 pounds?  Give me a break... CDI ignition, bone

simple...and now they have hydraulic valve lifters...yea I know Rotax

has had that for awhile, they are just balancing "technology" with

"simplicity" and "manufacturability".



And for the record...I don't own one, don't sell them either



Also as Rick stated, the Jabiru guys machine a gearbox for that engine,

Rotax will have there hands full...



The main reason you see 912's on so many production planes is due to the

gearbox slowing the prop and reducing the noise...most of Europe is so

strict on noise regs that nothing but a geared prop will pass.



Jeremy

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Jabiru

Ray,

Are there any pics or info on the net on that low wing bird?

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject: Jabiru

CDI ignition, bone

| simple... |

 |

| Also as Rick stated, the Jabiru guys machine a gearbox for that 

engine,

| Rotax will have there hands full...

|

 |

| Jeremy



Unless Jabiru has changed ignition systems, they have a moisture 

problem.  The twin distrubutor CDI is prone to shorting out if they 

get wet.  I had a friend experience this a few years ago at Wallace, 

NC.  Night was dew laden.  Everything was soaking wet with dew the 

next morning when we slithered out of our tents.  Time to crank.  All 

Rotax's fired right up.  Single Jabiru would not hit a lick.  Had to 

pull the distributor caps and dry out the distributors to get the Jab 

to run.



Unless Jab has upgraded this problem, it would give me some concern 

for flying into rain, or getting stuck on the ground because the 

ignition got wet and had to be dried prior to starting.



Now..............I am knocking Jabiru.  Simply stating what I think to 

be an important piece of info (fact) on an older Jabiru.  If your Jab 

lives in a nice warm hanger, never has to worry about getting into 

rain or moisture, then you have no problem.  For me, it would present 

a big problem because I do get caught in less than ideal situations in 

my day to day flying hobby.



Also, if Jabiru has upgraded their ignition systems to improve 

moisture protection and the possible failure of the system due to 

moisture, GREAT!  If not, they need to look into it.



john h

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: Jabiru

|| Also as Rick stated, the Jabiru guys machine a gearbox for that

| engine,

|| Rotax will have there hands full...

||

| |

|| Jeremy

Forgot to comment on the above.



Why hasn't Jabiru taken advantage of a gearbox to allow slower turning 

larger diameter props?



Must be some reason they have not come up with a good workable 

solution.  Seems there would be a large market for that type 

equipment.



john h

MKIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: Jabiru

When it comes to machining and cosmetics all is not as it appears.

If you ever looked at the crank of a Franklin engine it looks

like it was made by the flintstones.  For some strange reason those

same engines have been known to provide a lot of good flying hours.

-Don't know how well the subsequent polish versions have fared.



-BB,  really smooth castings on Suzukis

do not archive

On 22, Mar 2006, at 3:37 PM, Jeremy Casey wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 You could not give me the Jabiru engine.  Just looking at it and it

 looks like it has been machined and manufactured in someones garage.

 The technology used in that engine is downright primitive compared to

 the Rotax 912-S.   Reading reports from owners, the Jabiru has a lot

 more problems than the Rotax 912-S.



 There are lots of disadvantages to the Jabiru, and I cant find even one

 thing that engine does better than the Rotax.



 <SNIP>

 Hummmm... let me try to be polite...



 Have you ever seen one?  Of the several that I have seen and couple 

 that

 I flew with, I was MIGHTY impressed.  For the right airframe they are

 great engines...as Rick has already stated the high revs of the engine

 kinda dictate the sleeker airframes to let the airspeeds get up where a

 short prop is more efficient...



 Now on the "machined in someone's garage" point...al I can say is 

 "horse

 crap" (and I mean that as polite and unoffensive as I can)  The Jabiru

 engine is so much a work of art from a machinist standpoint I almost

 wouldn't know whether to run it or build a glass box to sit it in in my

 living room.  BEAUTIFUL machining...if you think that is garage work

 then you don't know anything about machine work.  Absolute CNC machined

 perfection...friend of mine that's building a Sonex commented how 

 little

 work it would take to actually polish the case to a mirror shine...what

 more you want from an engine?



 As far as the technology is concerned...how many 80hp 4 stroke engines

 out there that weight 123 pounds?  Give me a break... CDI ignition, 

 bone

 simple...and now they have hydraulic valve lifters...yea I know Rotax

 has had that for awhile, they are just balancing "technology" with

 "simplicity" and "manufacturability".



 And for the record...I don't own one, don't sell them either



 Also as Rick stated, the Jabiru guys machine a gearbox for that engine,

 Rotax will have there hands full...



 The main reason you see 912's on so many production planes is due to 

 the

 gearbox slowing the prop and reducing the noise...most of Europe is so

 strict on noise regs that nothing but a geared prop will pass.



 Jeremy

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum