Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

100LL fuel additive

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:24 am Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

Kolb people C

  

   Is anyone familiar with this product that reduces lead deposit buildup C when using low-lead fuel.

  

 http://www.skygeek.com/73122.html

  

   My engine is designed to run on auto gas (it oughta C since it came from an auto!).  It is NOT designed to run on low-lead.  Yet C I can imagine it is possible that the only fuel available on a long distance cross country flight might be airport fuel....100LL.

  

   Has anyone ever used this stuff C and can give a report on it's effectiveness?

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII

Internet Explorer 8 – Now Available. Faster C saferrget='_new'>Download FREE now!  [quote][b]

apilot(at)surewest.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

I have heard that Marvel Mystery oil used in the gas and the oil prevents lead build up.  Have not been able to confirm if it will make the use of 100LL practical in engines designed to use auto fuel.

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:51 pm Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

Reading on the net...appears that MMO has phosphorous as its  active ingredient... Dump a few ozs in the tank and carbon and sticky  rings are a thing of the past...I also toss one oz over my left shoulder...     Herb 



 WHAT IS IT?



 My own understanding from earlier articles on the subject is that Marvel Mystery Oil is a light viscosity oil, roughly equivalent to an SAE 3W, containing (among other things) about 20 percent solvent (probably mineral spirits), dye, wintergreen for smell, and 790 PPM of a phosphorous additive.



 



 At 01:40 PM 3/21/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: <apilot(at)surewest.net>



 I have heard that Marvel Mystery oil used in the gas and the oil prevents lead build up.  Have not been able to confirm if it will make the use of 100LL practical in engines designed to use auto fuel.



 Email Forum -

  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

  http://forums.matronics.com

 - List Contribution Web Site -

 -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

  http://www.matronics.com/contribution

     [quote][b]

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

Not a scientific test you understand, but when Arty and I  took our Texas trip a couple of years ago. I had a 503 and used MMO in my fuel.  We flew for 40 some hours, using 100 LL when it was available which was most of  the time. Just a WAG on my part but I believe we used in excess of 120 gallons  of the stuff. We flew for 2600 miles total. I changed the spark plugs when we  returned and there was enough lead on the plugs that my mag checks showed a  noticeable change. Not enough to be concerned about, but there was a small build  up. Of course the recommended change time frame is 25 hours I believe, so  it was no real surprise that they were showing wear.

  

 Now having said that, that same engine when I sold it  at 185 hours showed no carbon at all on the pistons and no wear on the cylinder  walls. It had never been decarboned. I had always used MMO in my fuel, and will  continue to do so. It damn sure doesn't hurt and I believe that it helps a  lot.

 Larry C

 [quote]   ---

_________________
do not archive

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

At 12:23 PM 3/21/2009, Mike Welch wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Kolb people,

  

   Is anyone familiar with this product that reduces lead deposit buildup, when using low-lead fuel.

  

 http://www.skygeek.com/73122.html

  

   My engine is designed to run on auto gas (it oughta, since it came from an auto!).  It is NOT designed to run on low-lead.  Yet, I can imagine it is possible that the only fuel available on a long distance cross country flight might be airport fuel....100LL.

  

   Has anyone ever used this stuff, and can give a report on it's effectiveness? 	


 I've never used it, but it was quite popular and a lot of guys used it religiously in older airplanes when 100LL first came out and 80 was hard to find... a lot of aircraft engines had trouble with lead fouling the valves.  Me, I just ran mogas instead (leaded regular and no ethanol then).



 -Dana

 --

  Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I.    [quote][b]

beauford

Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 127
Location: Brandon, FL

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

Mike:

 TCP was developed during WWII to control lead fouling in  high performance Av-engines using 115-145 octane heavily leaded high-test  gasoline....

   I believe Shell Oil  marketed it first after the war.  I ran a 165 hp. Franklin on 100 LL for 9  years...This engine was low compression and was designed in the 1930's for 80/87  octane gas. The Alcor TCP was the only way I  could keep from having to pull and scrape the bottom plugs every 20 hours (the  Franklin used 14mm automotive type plugs and the  electrodes were prone to fouling.)  With the TCP, they would go 100 hours  plus on the 100 LL.

  

 TCP makes the lead ball up into globules and blow out  the exhaust, vice depositing on the plugs, valves, piston crown, or  whatever.

  

 Not sure what it would do in a 2-stroke or Rotax 4  stroke engine...

  

 Worth what ye paid fer it..

  

 beauford

 FF-076

 Brandon, FL

 [quote]   ---

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

Me too!

  

 In fact I use it in everything I own, except the weed  eater and chain saw two strokes.

  

 Got sponsored by Alcor TCP on my 2001 flight to  Alaska.  It worked well, but was hard to handle.  Warnings on the can  was enough to scare me.  It is very expensive. 

  

 No sponsorship in 2004 when I flew back to Alaska.   This flight I used MMO.  It worked well, smelled good, and had not scarly  warnings on the can.  Was relatively cheap, available at Walmart, so  resupply was not a problem.  Did not have to haul enough for the entire  flight.

  

 Does it work.  I think so.  It has been used by  aviators and a lot of other folks since 1933.  I have seen miracles happen  with some of my old tractors that are a few years older than me.  Back in  the old days, I have watched crop dusters dump it in the fuel tank by the  gallons.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  

 [quote]    

   Now having said that, that same engine when I sold    it at 185 hours showed no carbon at all on the pistons and no wear on the    cylinder walls. It had never been decarboned. I had always used MMO in my    fuel, and will continue to do so. It damn sure doesn't hurt and I believe that    it helps a lot.

   Larry C

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dwight

Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
Location: Illinois

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: 100LL fuel additive

So, for those who use it, what is the mix ratio? When using the MMO .

1 oz per gal, 1oz per 5gal??  And do you add it over and above your regular oil mix or substitute the oz or so of  MMO for part of the oil??

I've used it as a fogger for winterizing boats etc for years and had great results with it in that application.



Thanks

Dwight

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

John Hauck told me to use 2 oz per five gallons in  addition to the regular oil. I also use two oz of Sta-bil as well. If you  don't fly that often mixed gas goes bad quicker than regular gasoline. Keep in  mind that if you are using Ethanol there is a Marine grade of Sta-bil for  Ethanol, and that is one oz per 5 gallons.

 Larry C

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
do not archive

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:33 am Post subject: Re: 100LL fuel additive

I just visited the MMO website 



http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/products/



and they have multiple products, or at least it seems that way. Which of these are you MMO aficionados using? The first one listed on their site comes in 16 oz to 55 gallon sizes and they suggest using this one in gasoline and oil. The 2nd is for diesel. The 3rd listing is called Marvel Super Gas Treatment and it shows only 12 oz containers.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:02 am Post subject: Re: 100LL fuel additive

The MMO FAQ has a lot of info pertinent to its use, including the following excerpts:



Can I use MMO in 2-cycle engines?

Yes, MMO is safe for use in 2-cycle engines. Replace 25% of the 2-cycle oil with MMO. For example, if use 8oz of 2-cycle oil, replace 2oz of 2-cycle with 2oz of MMO at oil change.



Can I use MMO for winter storage as a fuel stabilizer?

Yes, you can use MMO as a fuel stabilizer. Use 4ozs of Marvel for every 10 gallons of fuel.



Can I use MMO in my air tools such as a nail gun?

Yes, you can use MMO in your air tools. However, we recommend you use Marvel Air Tool oil for longer term use. The formulation of the Air Tool Oil is nearly identical to the original MMO but also includes a heavy-duty corrosion inhibitor to protect the tool in the high-moisture environment of air tools.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:18 am Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

> and they have multiple products, or at least it seems that way. Which of 

these are you MMO aficionados using? The first one listed on their site 

comes in 16 oz to 55 gallon sizes and they suggest using this one in 

gasoline and oil. The 2nd is for diesel. The 3rd listing is called Marvel 

Super Gas Treatment and it shows only 12 oz containers.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 --------

 Thom Riddle


	


The one I use is the only one available at stores I frequent, the first one 

listed for gas and diesel engines.



I believe it recommends one quart for 80 to 100 gals.  That is normally the 

ratio I mix, sometimes more than recommended.  I am not too particular.



Never had a fouled plug or stuck valve in a 912 while using MMO.



In 1994, I flew 232 hours in 41 days with a 912UL.  I did not use MMO. 

About every 75 hours, operating on a steady diet of 100LL, at least one plug 

will start fouling.  Indication was a slight thumping/tapping felt in the 

airframe.  Really gets your attention when flying over inhospitable terrain. 

I'd land at the next available airport, pull the plugs, clean them with my 

knife and the wire on my spark plug gap gauge.  Good for another 75 hours. 

The 912 was being operated at 5,000 rpm cruise.



Don't have that problem with the 912ULS, normally.  I did go through some 

engine missing and power problems last year on my flight out West.  I think 

some of that was carb icing.  Was flying with John W.  His 912ULS was not 

experiencing any problems.  May have been a gremlin.  Have not had that 

problem since.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

 	  Quote: 	
		   Can I use MMO in 2-cycle engines?

 Yes, MMO is safe for use in 2-cycle engines. Replace 25% of the 2-cycle 

 oil with MMO. For example, if use 8oz of 2-cycle oil, replace 2oz of 

 2-cycle with 2oz of MMO at oil change.

 > --------
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Thom Riddle


	




I would not replace two stroke oil with MMO, but add it in addition to the 

recommended amount of two stroke oil.



Personal opinion and gut feeling only.



I use regular MMO in my air tools.  Haven't worn one out yet.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

Thom, I use the original MMO in the HKS in the gas only since HKS specs a full synthetic oil and I don't want to mix.



Rick

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>

  

 I just visited the MMO website

 

 http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/products/

 

 and they have multiple products, or at least it seems that way. Which of these are you MMO aficionados using? The first one listed on their site comes in 16 oz to 55 gallon sizes and they suggest using this one in gasoline and oil. The 2nd is for diesel. The 3rd listing is called Marvel Super Gas Treatment and it shows only 12 oz containers.

  

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 Buffalo, NY

 http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi

 http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix

 

 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.

   - John Gaule

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235626#235626

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:05 am Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

Ricks msg reminded me I probably should have  indicated I do not use MMO in the crankcase of the 912ULS.  However, it  might not be a bad idea to add some just prior to oil change to help stir up and  get more lead into suspension.

  

 On antique tractors, as soon as I get one, I put a  quart of MMO in the gas tank and another in the crankcase.  I helps loosen  up a lot of sludge and crap from years of nondetergent oil.  However, that  ain't got nothing to do with airplane engines.  

  

 john h

 mkIII

 [quote]    

Thom, I use the original MMO in the    HKS in the gas only since HKS specs a full synthetic oil and I don't want to    mix.   



   Rick

    



[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

Gang,

    When I used it in my 503 I added it to the  regular amount of two stroke oil, My plugs showed no indication that it was  getting too much oil.

 Larry C

 [quote]   ---

_________________
do not archive

Ed in JXN

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 122

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: 100LL fuel additive

Hi,

  

         I used Marvel  in the fuel of British sports cars in the '70's.  Seemed to prevent  sticking valves, didn't seem to hurt.  I use their Air Tool oil as an  after-run oil on RC 2-strokes, works great.

  

 Ed in JXN

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum