Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

121.5 MHz ELT

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Commander-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

andrew.bridget(at)telus.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

Good evening folks,

  

 This is not really a Commander topic per se, but  aviation related, so forgive me for posting non-Commander topics here.  

  

 Can anyone give me a very high-level overview of  how the older 121.5 MHz ELTs work in saving lives and facilitating rescue? I  understand they are (or supposed to be) activated at a certain G loading and  transmit an emergency signal on 121.5 MHz, which is/was monitored by the  Cospas-Sarsat satellite system. But which ELT was triggered? Do the ELTs  transmit an identifying code? If so, what is it? The airplane's registration?  Next, how do the search teams - say the good people at CASARA - locate the  downed aircraft?  Would the signal be picked up by an ADF, for example, and  triangulated to pinpoint a search location? Tom Fisher, would you be able to  help here? How does a CASARA search get organised? Who advises CASARA? Is there  somebody manning the frequency? What happened pre-Cospas-Sarsat?

  

 Thanks for your help,

  

 Regards,

 Andrew

    [quote][b]

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:52 am Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

Writing another book, Andrew? 

  

 By the way, we never got a copy of your previous one  featuring Commanders. I'd like to buy one if I know where to find it.  

  

 Thanks

  

 Nico

  



   From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  andrew.bridget(at)telus.net

Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:27  PM

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Commander-List:  121.5 MHz ELT

 

 Good evening folks,

  

 This is not really a Commander topic per se, but  aviation related, so forgive me for posting non-Commander topics here.  

  

 Can anyone give me a very high-level overview of  how the older 121.5 MHz ELTs work in saving lives and facilitating rescue? I  understand they are (or supposed to be) activated at a certain G loading and  transmit an emergency signal on 121.5 MHz, which is/was monitored by the  Cospas-Sarsat satellite system. But which ELT was triggered? Do the ELTs  transmit an identifying code? If so, what is it? The airplane's registration?  Next, how do the search teams - say the good people at CASARA - locate the  downed aircraft?  Would the signal be picked up by an ADF, for example, and  triangulated to pinpoint a search location? Tom Fisher, would you be able to  help here? How does a CASARA search get organised? Who advises CASARA? Is there  somebody manning the frequency? What happened pre-Cospas-Sarsat?

  

 Thanks for your help,

  

 Regards,

 Andrew

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

andrew.bridget(at)telus.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:23 am Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

Actually, yes. Two books, in fact - "God's Orphan",  which is our journey in adopting our daughter from China, and "Dragon in the  Sky", a sequel to "Where Vultures Roost". The question first came up in a  discussion with a colleague, and when I wrote this last night I thought  that maybe I should include such an event in "Dragon in the Sky" . Or  maybe not. We'll see.

  

 Re where to get the book from, you can order it  online from Barnes & Noble or the publisher (Publish America), or I can send  you a signed copy. I have a few books here; I usually charge $30 which includes  postage, so it works out about the same as the other booksellers once you add in  postage.

  

 Barnes & Noble http://books.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.aspx?WRD=where+vultures+roost

 Publish America: http://www.publishamerica.com/shopping/index.htm then  type in "Where Vultures Roost" in the search area.

  

 For some reason or another Amazon lists the book,  but I can't see where you can click to order it, apart from going to  outside sellers. 

  

 God bless,

 Andrew

  

  

 [quote]   ---

brcamp(at)windows.microso
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

The 121.5 ELT isn’t associated (much) with SARSAT, which monitors 406 MHz. The 121.5 antenna would have been too big to launch.  The signal isn’t in a range that ADFs (who top out at 30 mhz) can get.  Essentially the ELT produces a low power signal, line of sight which can be triangulated by flight service stations (when they existed) via their VHF DF systems (when they had them) or heard by a search pilot flying essentially overhead, or at most within a few miles.  

   

The removal of virtually all of the infrastructure to find a 121.5 (or 243) ELT signal is why they are being replaced by the 406 Mhz ELTs,  which both (can) give a GPS position in their standard signal and are picked up by SARSAT  

   

   

         Bruce   

       

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net

 Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:18 AM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: 121.5 MHz ELT  

  

  

     

Actually, yes. Two books, in fact - "God's Orphan", which is our journey in adopting our daughter from China, and "Dragon in the Sky", a sequel to "Where Vultures Roost". The question first came up in a discussion with a colleague, and when I wrote this last night I thought that maybe I should include such an event in "Dragon in the Sky" . Or maybe not. We'll see.  

    

   

    

Re where to get the book from, you can order it online from Barnes & Noble or the publisher (Publish America), or I can send you a signed copy. I have a few books here; I usually charge $30 which includes postage, so it works out about the same as the other booksellers once you add in postage.  

    

   

    

Barnes & Noble http://books.barnesandnoble.com/search/results.aspx?WRD=where+vultures+roost  

    

Publish America: http://www.publishamerica.com/shopping/index.htm then type in "Where Vultures Roost" in the search area.  

    

   

    

For some reason or another Amazon lists the book, but I can't see where you can click to order it, apart from going to outside sellers.   

    

   

    

God bless,  

    

Andrew  

    

   

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: nico css (nico(at)cybersuperstore.com)   

    

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 6:51 AM  

    

Subject: RE: Commander-List: 121.5 MHz ELT  

    

   

  

Writing another book, Andrew?   

   

By the way, we never got a copy of your previous one featuring Commanders. I'd like to buy one if I know where to find it.   

   

Thanks  

   

Nico  

   

       

  

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net (andrew.bridget(at)telus.net)

 Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:27 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: 121.5 MHz ELT    

Good evening folks,  

    

   

    

This is not really a Commander topic per se, but aviation related, so forgive me for posting non-Commander topics here.   

    

   

    

Can anyone give me a very high-level overview of how the older 121.5 MHz ELTs work in saving lives and facilitating rescue? I understand they are (or supposed to be) activated at a certain G loading and transmit an emergency signal on 121.5 MHz, which is/was monitored by the Cospas-Sarsat satellite system. But which ELT was triggered? Do the ELTs transmit an identifying code? If so, what is it? The airplane's registration? Next, how do the search teams - say the good people at CASARA - locate the downed aircraft?  Would the signal be picked up by an ADF, for example, and triangulated to pinpoint a search location? Tom Fisher, would you be able to help here? How does a CASARA search get organised? Who advises CASARA? Is there somebody manning the frequency? What happened pre-Cospas-Sarsat?  

    

   

    

Thanks for your help,  

    

   

    

Regards,  

    

Andrew  

   	  Quote: 	
		    href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 	
 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
4 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
9

      [quote][b]

steve2(at)sover.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:30 am Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

The worst part of carrying an ELT (at least in the  States) is that in the event of an accident the Civil Air Patrol might find  you.



 [quote]         From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)    [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net (andrew.bridget(at)telus.net)

Sent:    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:27 PM

To:    commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: 121.5 MHz    ELT

   

   Good evening folks,

    

   This is not really a Commander topic per se, but    aviation related, so forgive me for posting non-Commander topics here.    

    

   Can anyone give me a very high-level overview of    how the older 121.5 MHz ELTs work in saving lives and facilitating rescue? I    understand they are (or supposed to be) activated at a certain G loading and    transmit an emergency signal on 121.5 MHz, which is/was monitored by the    Cospas-Sarsat satellite system. But which ELT was triggered? Do the ELTs    transmit an identifying code? If so, what is it? The airplane's registration?    Next, how do the search teams - say the good people at CASARA - locate the    downed aircraft?  Would the signal be picked up by an ADF, for example,    and triangulated to pinpoint a search location? Tom Fisher, would you be able    to help here? How does a CASARA search get organised? Who advises CASARA? Is    there somebody manning the frequency? What happened    pre-Cospas-Sarsat?

    

   Thanks for your help,

    

   Regards,

   Andrew

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c





href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
[b]

tfisher(at)commandergroup
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:41 am Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

As the Commander of CASARA for the South West of British  Columbia I should have some knowledge about the subject in this area, I just  wish that the some intelligent decisions were being made by those who shut down  the monitoring of 121.5.

  

 In the past any 121.5 signal picked up by SARSAT  system would be monitored on the ground.  The position of the ELT  signal would be narrowed down to a smaller area with each pass of the many  satellites.  The nearest SAR group would then be notified and search  aircraft would be dispatched.

  

 In Canada, British Columbia, the local Military Joint  Rescue Coordination Centre in Victoria would be notified of the presence of the  ELT signal, they in turn would notify the CASARA Commander for that area  (there are six areas in the Province) of British Columbia and depending on it's  approximate location (50 to 300 mile radius) would request dispatching whatever  resources it called for, usually a vehicle to a nuisance ELT at an airport  otherwise one or two aircraft with special homing equipment, (I have the  equipment installed on my 680FLP), Search Pilot, Navigator and possibly one or  two Spotters all within an hour.

  

 If we can hear it, we can locate it although in  mountainous terrain there are a lot of reflective issues to deal with as  well as power lines propagating the signal along that corridor.

  

 When an ELT is triggered either manually or with the "G"  switch it just starts transmitting (and should not be turned off), it  does not transmit any data regarding the source of the signal so all ELT's are  hunted down with all dispatch until we know what the source is.

  

 Things are different now as 121.5 is no longer being  monitored even though less than 20% of the general aviation aircraft in North  American have the new 406 ELT installed.  Worst yet these 406 units must be  registered and a lot are not, if it is registered then your tail number name  contact names and numbers will all be available to SAR.  When you buy  a 406 ELT buy one that has an integrated GPS that will get search teams  into a 10 nm area.  There is still a 121.5 signal emanating from the 406  ELT's for local homing (still required) but it is half the strength of the  original 121.5 ELT's.

  

 Between the lines of asterisks below is a notice from NOAA  SARSAT regarding 406 ELT's it is scary to say the least, I sure as hope all you  guys have that third radio installed just to listen to 121.5.

  

 I hope this covers most of your questions.

  

 Tom

 C-GISS

 680 FLP (Mr.RPM)

  

 ***************************************************************************************

  

Termination  of Satellite Monitoring of 121.5 MHz ELT's. - ARE YOU READY?

Notice  Number: NOTC1518<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

Termination of satellite  monitoring of 121.5 MHz ELTs will happen in under a month.  Are you ready?   

 On 1 February 2009, the International Cospas-Sarsat [url=mhtml:mid://00011945/#_ftn1][1][/url] [1] Organization  (U.S. included) will terminate processing of distress signals emitted by 121.5  MHz Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs). Pilots flying aircraft equipped with  121.5 MHz ELTs after that date will have to depend on pilots of over flying  aircraft and or ground stations monitoring 121.5 to hear and report distress  alert signals, transmitted from a possible crash site.  

 Protect each other…  

 Currently only 12-15% of the  registered aircraft in the United States are flying with 406 MHz ELTs.   This means that there is at least an 85% chance that an aircraft in an accident  will only transmit a 121.5 MHz signal, thus remaining silent to the  satellites.  It will be up to other pilots monitoring the 121.5 MHz  frequency in the cockpit to alert Search and Rescue authorities to accidents  involving 121.5.  When you fly, look out for your fellow pilots and when  possible monitor 121.5 MHz.   

 If a 121.5 MHz ELT is heard on guard, report to the nearest  air traffic control tower, the time and location of when you first detect the  ELT, when it is the loudest and when it drops off your radio.  Listening  and reporting may well be the difference that saves a life.     

 Protect yourself…  

 Cospas-Sarsat System (U.S. included) has been and will  continue processing emergency signals transmitted by 406 MHz ELTs. These 5 Watt  digital beacons transmit a much stronger signal, are more accurate, verifiable  and traceable to the registered beacon owner (406 MHz ELTs must be registered by  the owner in accordance with Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulation  at www.beaconregistration.noaa.gov). Registration allows the search and rescue  authorities to contact the beacon owner, or his or her designated alternate by  telephone to determine if a real emergency exists. Therefore, a simple telephone  call often solves a 406 MHz alerts without launching costly and limited search  and rescue resources, which would have to be done for a 121.5 MHz alert. For  these reasons, the search and rescue community is encouraging aircraft owners to  consider retrofit of 406 MHz ELTs or at a minimum, consider the purchase of a  handheld 406 MHz Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) which can be carried in the  cockpit while continuing to maintain a fixed 121.5 MHz ELT mounted in the  aircraft’s tail.  Protect yourself and your passengers and Get the Fix…  Switch to 406.  

 Remember, after February 1, 2009, the world-wide  Cospas-Sarsat satellite system will no longer process 121.5 MHz alert signals.  Pilots involved in aircraft accidents in remote areas will have to depend on  pilots of over flying aircraft and or ground stations to hear emergency ELT  distress signals.  For further information concerning the termination of  121.5 MHz data processing visit Switchto406(at)noaa.gov (Switchto406(at)noaa.gov) with any  questions.   



 

 

Address  SARSAT inquiries to:   

NOAA  SARSAT

NSOF. E/SP3

4231 SuitlandRoad

Suitland, MD 20746 

Phone:  301.817.4515

Toll free: 888.212.7283

Fax:  301.817.4565

 ***************************************************************************************

 [quote]   ---

brcamp(at)windows.microso
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:03 pm Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

I did CAP search in Northern California for some years,  and generally a 121.5 ELT signal didn’t go very far in the sierra and siskyous (maybe only hearable directly above).   The mode of finding it was generally to fly a series of spiral search patterns on a grid  until  someone heard it, then look for the highest volume with AGC off on the radio.   It was a time consuming, and often as not  futile process.    Even when the signal could be pinpointed, in the days before GPS it was only indicated by a DR with possibly (but not often) some VOR bearings to go by.  A 10 nm radius would have been wonderful.   Of course the ELTs going off on some ramp were relatively easy to find, but still not quick or easy.  

   

For what its worth, AmeriKing’s 406 ELT lists about $850.  It may be a good idea to budget for an upgrade, as I will be doing.    

   

   

       

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher

 Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:44 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: 121.5 MHz ELT  

  

  

     

As the Commander of CASARA for the South West of British Columbia I should have some knowledge about the subject in this area, I just wish that the some intelligent decisions were being made by those who shut down the monitoring of 121.5.  

    

   

    

In the past any 121.5 signal picked up by SARSAT system would be monitored on the ground.  The position of the ELT signal would be narrowed down to a smaller area with each pass of the many satellites.  The nearest SAR group would then be notified and search aircraft would be dispatched.  

    

   

    

In Canada, British Columbia, the local Military Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Victoria would be notified of the presence of the ELT signal, they in turn would notify the CASARA Commander for that area (there are six areas in the Province) of British Columbia and depending on it's approximate location (50 to 300 mile radius) would request dispatching whatever resources it called for, usually a vehicle to a nuisance ELT at an airport otherwise one or two aircraft with special homing equipment, (I have the equipment installed on my 680FLP), Search Pilot, Navigator and possibly one or two Spotters all within an hour.  

    

   

    

If we can hear it, we can locate it although in mountainous terrain there are a lot of reflective issues to deal with as well as power lines propagating the signal along that corridor.  

    

   

    

When an ELT is triggered either manually or with the "G" switch it just starts transmitting (and should not be turned off), it does not transmit any data regarding the source of the signal so all ELT's are hunted down with all dispatch until we know what the source is.  

    

   

    

Things are different now as 121.5 is no longer being monitored even though less than 20% of the general aviation aircraft in North American have the new 406 ELT installed.  Worst yet these 406 units must be registered and a lot are not, if it is registered then your tail number name contact names and numbers will all be available to SAR.  When you buy a 406 ELT buy one that has an integrated GPS that will get search teams into a 10 nm area.  There is still a 121.5 signal emanating from the 406 ELT's for local homing (still required) but it is half the strength of the original 121.5 ELT's.  

    

   

    

Between the lines of asterisks below is a notice from NOAA SARSAT regarding 406 ELT's it is scary to say the least, I sure as hope all you guys have that third radio installed just to listen to 121.5.  

    

   

    

I hope this covers most of your questions.  

    

   

    

Tom  

    

C-GISS  

    

680 FLP (Mr.RPM)  

    

   

    

***************************************************************************************  

    

Termination of Satellite Monitoring of 121.5 MHz ELT's. - ARE YOU READY?

 Notice Number: NOTC1518  

Termination of satellite monitoring of 121.5 MHz ELTs will happen in under a month.  Are you ready?   

On 1 February 2009, the International Cospas-Sarsat [url=#_ftn1][1][/url] [1] Organization (U.S. included) will terminate processing of distress signals emitted by 121.5 MHz Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs). Pilots flying aircraft equipped with 121.5 MHz ELTs after that date will have to depend on pilots of over flying aircraft and or ground stations monitoring 121.5 to hear and report distress alert signals, transmitted from a possible crash site.   

Protect each other…   

 Currently only 12-15% of the registered aircraft in the United States are flying with 406 MHz ELTs.  This means that there is at least an 85% chance that an aircraft in an accident will only transmit a 121.5 MHz signal, thus remaining silent to the satellites.  It will be up to other pilots monitoring the 121.5 MHz frequency in the cockpit to alert Search and Rescue authorities to accidents involving 121.5.  When you fly, look out for your fellow pilots and when possible monitor 121.5 MHz.    

If a 121.5 MHz ELT is heard on guard, report to the nearest air traffic control tower, the time and location of when you first detect the ELT, when it is the loudest and when it drops off your radio.  Listening and reporting may well be the difference that saves a life.     

Protect yourself…   

Cospas-Sarsat System (U.S. included) has been and will continue processing emergency signals transmitted by 406 MHz ELTs. These 5 Watt digital beacons transmit a much stronger signal, are more accurate, verifiable and traceable to the registered beacon owner (406 MHz ELTs must be registered by the owner in accordance with Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulation at www.beaconregistration.noaa.gov). Registration allows the search and rescue authorities to contact the beacon owner, or his or her designated alternate by telephone to determine if a real emergency exists. Therefore, a simple telephone call often solves a 406 MHz alerts without launching costly and limited search and rescue resources, which would have to be done for a 121.5 MHz alert. For these reasons, the search and rescue community is encouraging aircraft owners to consider retrofit of 406 MHz ELTs or at a minimum, consider the purchase of a handheld 406 MHz Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) which can be carried in the cockpit while continuing to maintain a fixed 121.5 MHz ELT mounted in the aircraft’s tail.  Protect yourself and your passengers and Get the Fix… Switch to 406.   

Remember, after February 1, 2009, the world-wide Cospas-Sarsat satellite system will no longer process 121.5 MHz alert signals. Pilots involved in aircraft accidents in remote areas will have to depend on pilots of over flying aircraft and or ground stations to hear emergency ELT distress signals.  For further information concerning the termination of 121.5 MHz data processing visit Switchto406(at)noaa.gov (Switchto406(at)noaa.gov) with any questions.     

   

  

   

Address SARSAT inquiries to:   

NOAA SARSAT

 NSOF. E/SP3

 4231 SuitlandRoad

 Suitland, MD 20746 

 Phone: 301.817.4515

 Toll free: 888.212.7283

 Fax: 301.817.4565  

    

***************************************************************************************  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net (andrew.bridget(at)telus.net)   

    

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:26 PM  

    

Subject: Commander-List: 121.5 MHz ELT  

    

   

    

Good evening folks,  

    

   

    

This is not really a Commander topic per se, but aviation related, so forgive me for posting non-Commander topics here.   

    

   

    

Can anyone give me a very high-level overview of how the older 121.5 MHz ELTs work in saving lives and facilitating rescue? I understand they are (or supposed to be) activated at a certain G loading and transmit an emergency signal on 121.5 MHz, which is/was monitored by the Cospas-Sarsat satellite system. But which ELT was triggered? Do the ELTs transmit an identifying code? If so, what is it? The airplane's registration? Next, how do the search teams - say the good people at CASARA - locate the downed aircraft?  Would the signal be picked up by an ADF, for example, and triangulated to pinpoint a search location? Tom Fisher, would you be able to help here? How does a CASARA search get organised? Who advises CASARA? Is there somebody manning the frequency? What happened pre-Cospas-Sarsat?  

    

   

    

Thanks for your help,  

    

   

    

Regards,  

    

Andrew  

   	  Quote: 	
		    href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 	
  ;         - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,[/b]http://www.matro===================[/b][/b]http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/con[/b] 	
0

        

[url=#_ftnref1][/url]   

  

      [quote][b]

andrew.bridget(at)telus.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

Thank you, Tom and Bruce... Does each ELT have a unique signal (maybe in Morse)? Or is it just an  unbroken transmit signal? 

 [quote]   ---

brcamp(at)windows.microso
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

The 121.5 just squeals.  The 406 will give all kinds of info, including your id (which can be related to contact and alternate contact  info) and  GPS position.  

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net

 Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:21 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: 121.5 MHz ELT  

Thank you, Tom and Bruce... Does each ELT have a unique signal (maybe in Morse)? Or is it just an unbroken transmit signal?   

   	  Quote: 	

----- Original Message -----   

From: Bruce Campbell (brcamp(at)windows.microsoft.com)   

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)   

Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:01 PM  

Subject: RE: Commander-List: 121.5 MHz ELT  

I did CAP search in Northern California for some years,  and generally a 121.5 ELT signal didn’t go very far in the sierra and siskyous (maybe only hearable directly above).   The mode of finding it was generally to fly a series of spiral search patterns on a grid  until  someone heard it, then look for the highest volume with AGC off on the radio.   It was a time consuming, and often as not  futile process.    Even when the signal could be pinpointed, in the days before GPS it was only indicated by a DR with possibly (but not often) some VOR bearings to go by.  A 10 nm radius would have been wonderful.   Of course the ELTs going off on some ramp were relatively easy to find, but still not quick or easy.  

For what its worth, AmeriKing’s 406 ELT lists about $850.  It may be a good idea to budget for an upgrade, as I will be doing.    

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Fisher

 Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:44 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: 121.5 MHz ELT  

As the Commander of CASARA for the South West of British Columbia I should have some knowledge about the subject in this area, I just wish that the some intelligent decisions were being made by those who shut down the monitoring of 121.5.  

In the past any 121.5 signal picked up by SARSAT system would be monitored on the ground.  The position of the ELT signal would be narrowed down to a smaller area with each pass of the many satellites.  The nearest SAR group would then be notified and search aircraft would be dispatched.  

In Canada, British Columbia, the local Military Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Victoria would be notified of the presence of the ELT signal, they in turn would notify the CASARA Commander for that area (there are six areas in the Province) of British Columbia and depending on it's approximate location (50 to 300 mile radius) would request dispatching whatever resources it called for, usually a vehicle to a nuisance ELT at an airport otherwise one or two aircraft with special homing equipment, (I have the equipment installed on my 680FLP), Search Pilot, Navigator and possibly one or two Spotters all within an hour.  

If we can hear it, we can locate it although in mountainous terrain there are a lot of reflective issues to deal with as well as power lines propagating the signal along that corridor.  

When an ELT is triggered either manually or with the "G" switch it just starts transmitting (and should not be turned off), it does not transmit any data regarding the source of the signal so all ELT's are hunted down with all dispatch until we know what the source is.  

Things are different now as 121.5 is no longer being monitored even though less than 20% of the general aviation aircraft in North American have the new 406 ELT installed.  Worst yet these 406 units must be registered and a lot are not, if it is registered then your tail number name contact names and numbers will all be available to SAR.  When you buy a 406 ELT buy one that has an integrated GPS that will get search teams into a 10 nm area.  There is still a 121.5 signal emanating from the 406 ELT's for local homing (still required) but it is half the strength of the original 121.5 ELT's.  

Between the lines of asterisks below is a notice from NOAA SARSAT regarding 406 ELT's it is scary to say the least, I sure as hope all you guys have that third radio installed just to listen to 121.5.  

I hope this covers most of your questions.  

Tom  

C-GISS  

680 FLP (Mr.RPM)  

***************************************************************************************  

Termination of Satellite Monitoring of 121.5 MHz ELT's. - ARE YOU READY?

 Notice Number: NOTC1518  

Termination of satellite monitoring of 121.5 MHz ELTs will happen in under a month.  Are you ready?   

On 1 February 2009, the International Cospas-Sarsat [url=#_ftn1][1][/url] [1] Organization (U.S. included) will terminate processing of distress signals emitted by 121.5 MHz Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs). Pilots flying aircraft equipped with 121.5 MHz ELTs after that date will have to depend on pilots of over flying aircraft and or ground stations monitoring 121.5 to hear and report distress alert signals, transmitted from a possible crash site.   

Protect each other…   

 Currently only 12-15% of the registered aircraft in the United States are flying with 406 MHz ELTs.  This means that there is at least an 85% chance that an aircraft in an accident will only transmit a 121.5 MHz signal, thus remaining silent to the satellites.  It will be up to other pilots monitoring the 121.5 MHz frequency in the cockpit to alert Search and Rescue authorities to accidents involving 121.5.  When you fly, look out for your fellow pilots and when possible monitor 121.5 MHz.    

If a 121.5 MHz ELT is heard on guard, report to the nearest air traffic control tower, the time and location of when you first detect the ELT, when it is the loudest and when it drops off your radio.  Listening and reporting may well be the difference that saves a life.     

Protect yourself…   

Cospas-Sarsat System (U.S. included) has been and will continue processing emergency signals transmitted by 406 MHz ELTs. These 5 Watt digital beacons transmit a much stronger signal, are more accurate, verifiable and traceable to the registered beacon owner (406 MHz ELTs must be registered by the owner in accordance with Federal Communications Commission (FCC) regulation at www.beaconregistration.noaa.gov). Registration allows the search and rescue authorities to contact the beacon owner, or his or her designated alternate by telephone to determine if a real emergency exists. Therefore, a simple telephone call often solves a 406 MHz alerts without launching costly and limited search and rescue resources, which would have to be done for a 121.5 MHz alert. For these reasons, the search and rescue community is encouraging aircraft owners to consider retrofit of 406 MHz ELTs or at a minimum, consider the purchase of a handheld 406 MHz Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) which can be carried in the cockpit while continuing to maintain a fixed 121.5 MHz ELT mounted in the aircraft’s tail.  Protect yourself and your passengers and Get the Fix… Switch to 406.   

Remember, after February 1, 2009, the world-wide Cospas-Sarsat satellite system will no longer process 121.5 MHz alert signals. Pilots involved in aircraft accidents in remote areas will have to depend on pilots of over flying aircraft and or ground stations to hear emergency ELT distress signals.  For further information concerning the termination of 121.5 MHz data processing visit Switchto406(at)noaa.gov (Switchto406(at)noaa.gov) with any questions.     

Address SARSAT inquiries to:   

NOAA SARSAT

 NSOF. E/SP3

 4231 SuitlandRoad

 Suitland, MD 20746 

 Phone: 301.817.4515

 Toll free: 888.212.7283

 Fax: 301.817.4565  

***************************************************************************************  

   	  Quote: 	

----- Original Message -----   

From: andrew.bridget(at)telus.net (andrew.bridget(at)telus.net)   

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com (commander-list(at)matronics.com)   

Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:26 PM  

Subject: Commander-List: 121.5 MHz ELT  

Good evening folks,  

This is not really a Commander topic per se, but aviation related, so forgive me for posting non-Commander topics here.   

Can anyone give me a very high-level overview of how the older 121.5 MHz ELTs work in saving lives and facilitating rescue? I understand they are (or supposed to be) activated at a certain G loading and transmit an emergency signal on 121.5 MHz, which is/was monitored by the Cospas-Sarsat satellite system. But which ELT was triggered? Do the ELTs transmit an identifying code? If so, what is it? The airplane's registration? Next, how do the search teams - say the good people at CASARA - locate the downed aircraft?  Would the signal be picked up by an ADF, for example, and triangulated to pinpoint a search location? Tom Fisher, would you be able to help here? How does a CASARA search get organised? Who advises CASARA? Is there somebody manning the frequency? What happened pre-Cospas-Sarsat?  

Thanks for your help,  

Regards,  

Andrew  

   	  Quote: 	
		    href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 	
  ;         - The Commander-List Emai Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, 	

[url=#_ftnref1][/url]   

      [quote][b]

andrew.bridget(at)telus.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

Great! Thanks.

 [quote]   ---

dongirod

Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 140

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

Andrew;

  

 The way I remember it, sometimes when flying  commercially, we would get a call from ATC asking us if we were receiving   ELT signal, we would just dial in 121.5 and listen.  If we did receive it,  they would ask us to let them know if it was getting louder or fainter, and to  let them know when we lost the signal.  I guess this would give them some  triangulation to pin point the location, often it was on a parked airplane on  the airport, but sometimes was a legit signal.

  

 Don

 [quote]   ---

dongirod

Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 140

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

Andrew;

  

 It is kind of a warble, like a capacitor charging  and discharging..

  

  

 [quote]   ---

andrew.bridget(at)telus.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: 121.5 MHz ELT

Thanks, Don!

 [quote]   ---

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Commander-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum