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drwer2
Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 41
Location: Squaw Valley, CA
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 Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: Hawaii |
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Range is always a good topic.
What is the best range for the 500S, 560 and 680 series? (We know the published range)
Has anyone ever ferried to or from Hawaii and the mainland?
thanks.
WER
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No Generality is worth a damn....including this one.
cogito ergo aero-geek |
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JBOBSTER(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: Hawaii |
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Commander Gordon has ferried to Hawaii (and beyond)
Jim C
Seattle
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less.
[quote][b]
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cloudcraft(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject: Hawaii |
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The idea of optimized LRC (Long Range Cruise) and the reality of operating way overweight to make the world's longest over-water route in a piston twin do not intersect.
On the AC-680FL that I ferried to PHNL and then on to NSTU via Kiribati I had to use 65% power to keep the airplane in level flight. After about the 4th hour, Indicated Air Speed began to build and I after I drifted up to 6000' I reduced power to maintain a constant IAS -- but this is not as accurate as flying constant Mach as an airspeed indicator is not an airdata instrument and my IAS could vary for ambient temperature.
Without splitting hairs, it worked.
I also leaned to lean of peak by EGT with a an eye towards cylinder head temperatures -- but at 65% power I couldn't have done any thermal damage to the engine. It was a psychological thing, really, and I'm still undergoing treatment.
It was a long time ago. Take a look at the story that's published on www.aerocommander.com and you'll get some details. Some of the information will apply to the non-geared engined models as well.
http://www.aerocommander.com/tales.asp?m=08&lid=01&mtitle=Tales
It's a fun trip if you do it -- but as I'm fond of saying, the difference between an adventure and a disaster is the proper equipment.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
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steve2(at)sover.net
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:36 am Post subject: Hawaii |
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Don't know if my response will be helpful at all, but.... I've mentioned our running lean of peak with the GAMI injectors on our 500B. Mark, the prez of the company, experimented with a lot of different settings, and I'd played some too.
Doing long lines of block flying Mark got total fuel flow down to a reliable 21.5gph total at 22" and 2150rpm. (If the heat was on it would be more.) This generated a fairly consistent 150 something knots in the lower altitudes, usually plus a couple knots. If I remember right (probably don't) by the wiz wheel this was about 55 percent power, but that's not the whole story. Actual power may have been lower as we were running more lean than 50 or 75 degrees.
Being younger or more impatient I'd push the handles up to put back some of the power lost from leaning.
I've now had the pleasure of running a couple engines now with Mark, four or five hundred hours past TBO (1400 hr engines) and the top ends all retired with high seventies or eighty compression. I don't want to hurt their business, but we just rebuilt a Penn Yann engine at 900 hours (very dissapointing!) and the cylinder shop said the jugs were like new. (That was like bringing home a good report card!) A couple engine builds back we did have a set of chrome jugs loose the choke at the top of the cylinder, but this too was somewhere around 1800 hours (or 19).
Steve
[quote] ---
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nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:11 am Post subject: Hawaii |
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1400 TBO on a 500B? What kind of engines were they?
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve W
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:30 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hawaii
Don't know if my response will be helpful at all, but.... I've mentioned our running lean of peak with the GAMI injectors on our 500B. Mark, the prez of the company, experimented with a lot of different settings, and I'd played some too.
Doing long lines of block flying Mark got total fuel flow down to a reliable 21.5gph total at 22" and 2150rpm. (If the heat was on it would be more.) This generated a fairly consistent 150 something knots in the lower altitudes, usually plus a couple knots. If I remember right (probably don't) by the wiz wheel this was about 55 percent power, but that's not the whole story. Actual power may have been lower as we were running more lean than 50 or 75 degrees.
Being younger or more impatient I'd push the handles up to put back some of the power lost from leaning.
I've now had the pleasure of running a couple engines now with Mark, four or five hundred hours past TBO (1400 hr engines) and the top ends all retired with high seventies or eighty compression. I don't want to hurt their business, but we just rebuilt a Penn Yann engine at 900 hours (very dissapointing!) and the cylinder shop said the jugs were like new. (That was like bringing home a good report card!) A couple engine builds back we did have a set of chrome jugs loose the choke at the top of the cylinder, but this too was somewhere around 1800 hours (or 19).
Steve
[quote] ---
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steve2(at)sover.net
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: Hawaii |
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Nico,
The old narrow deck IO-540's on the 500B have a 1400 hour TBO. The wide deck engines have the longer TBO.
Looking at the cases of the narrow deck and the wear of internal components, we've been comfortable with somewhere around the 18 or 19 hundred hours we're getting, but I'm not sure we would go longer.
This last Penn Yann engine developed a leak between the case halves at 900 or so hours that leaked out a cylinder stud, one that spans the case. There was obvious fretting of the case and the main bearings looked funky for only 900 hours. We're not happy about that. We're going to balance the props to try to keep the internal stresses and vibes at a minimum.
I would guess Central Air must have these engines down to a science.
You can upgrade to later wide deck IO-540's, but I'm pretty sure that has to be both sides at the same time, which is a little pricey. You can only surface the mating halves a couple times. The old cases aren't being made anymore and are starting to get scarce.
Steve
[quote] ---
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John Vormbaum
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: Hawaii |
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My narrow deck engines on my 500B have a 1600 hour TBO. I didn't know that there were some with only a 1400 hour TBO.
Sent from my BlackBerry
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John Vormbaum
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: Hawaii |
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Harry, thanks for the explanation. 10 years of Commander ownership and I'm still learning things about these airplanes on a regular basis!
Sent from my BlackBerry
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jtaddington(at)verizon.ne
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: Hawaii |
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Don’t feel bad, I got my 500A 01APR1981 and am still learning things too.
Jim A
N444BD
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 3:42 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Hawaii
From:=20 [url=3D]John = Vormbaum[/url]=20
nico=3D20 css=20
To: commander-list(at)matronics= .com=3D=3D20=20
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 =3D 9:10=3D20 = AM
Subject: RE: =3D = Hawaii
1400 TBO on a = 500B? What kind of=20 engines were =3D they?
From: owner-co= mmander=3D=20 -list-server(at)matronics.com=3D20=20 [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of=20 =3DSteve=3D20 W
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:30=20 AM
To: commander-list(at)matron= ics.com=3D
Subject:=3D20=20 Re: Hawaii
Don't know if my response will be = =3D helpful=20 at all,=3D20 but.... I've mentioned our running lean of peak with = the GAMI =3D=20 injectors on our=3D20 500B. Mark, the prez of the company, = experimented with a=20 lot of =3D different=3D20 settings, and I'd played some = too.
Doing long lines of block flying = Mark =3D got=20 total=3D20 fuel flow down to a reliable 21.5gph total at 22" and = 2150rpm. (If=20 the =3D heat=3D20 was on it would be more.) This generated a fairly = consistent=20 150=3D20 something knots in the lower altitudes, usually plus a = couple =3D=20 knots. If I=3D20 remember right (probably don't) by the wiz wheel = this was=20 about 55 =3D percent=3D20 power, but that's not the whole story. = Actual power=20 may have been =3D lower as we=3D20 were running more lean than 50 or = 75=20 degrees.
Being younger or more impatient = I'd =3D push=20 the=3D20 handles up to put back some of the power lost from =3D=20 leaning.
I've now had the pleasure of = running =3D a=20 couple=3D20 engines now with Mark, four or five hundred hours past = TBO (1400=20 hr =3D engines)=3D20 and the top ends all retired with high = seventies or eighty=20 =3D compression. I=3D20 don't want to hurt their business, but we = just rebuilt a=20 Penn Yann =3D engine at=3D20 900 hours (very dissapointing!) and the = cylinder=20 shop said the jugs =3D were like=3D20 new. (That was like bringing = home a good=20 report card!) A couple=3D20 engine builds back we did have a = set of=20 chrome jugs loose the =3D choke at=3D20 the top of the cylinder, but = this too=20 was somewhere around 1800 hours =3D (or=3D20 19).
Steve
[quote]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List |
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