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Weak 701 Nose Gear?

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lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

Recently a learned about a new (~30 flight hours) 701 that had its nose gear

collapse on landing, causing considerable damage and was able to obtain two

pictures (see attached).  The gear tube buckled and bent back just above the

lower bearing, which bent the lower bearing and firewall. The wheel bent

against the fus and deformed the lower structure behind the gear. The

radiator was pushed up into the exhaust and holed, and the bottom cowling

was damaged. The prop, and possibly the engine were also casualties of this

collapse.  The wheel axle was bent up with the bolts holding the axle to the

fork still in place. The fork was bent and the tire pushed upward into the

fork so that the tire tread was cut by a bolt on the inside of the fork. The

upper gear tube and upper bearing did not appear to be affected. 

I was able to find out that the plane was not overweight and the pilot and

passenger were not injured. The pilot said the plane was built to Zenith

specs. She was making a, admittedly "hard", short field landing on a paved

strip at a high angle of attack when it happened. The main gear touched

first and was not damaged.

Like most of us, I have made some awful hard landings in my 701 but have

been relieved to find little or no gear damage. Until I learned about this

failure I thought that 701 gear was very resilient. Now I am beginning to

wonder. 

Have any of you seen or experienced a similar collapse or speculate as to

its cause? 

Les

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arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

I too have made some hard landings in my CH701.  I would think that if the 

main gear properly touched down first, the nose gear would at worst case be 

jammed vertically.



These two photos look like the nose gear hit first.  Looks like the plane 

was in a nose down attitude and just bent the tube.  Since the axle was also 

bent, that must have been a hard strike.



Just my thoughts.

Ken



do not archive



---

rvickski(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

First I've heard of any problem, have been on the list for 5 years or better. More info is needed, such as what precisely does built to factory specs mean? The tube should have been 2" .065 wall 4130. Damage like that I would have suspected some sort of rupture in the tube. It is curious, I wonder if a substitution was made.



Roy Szarafinski

701 plans, 6 years and counting, with a heavy engine

Michigan USA 



Have any of you seen or experienced a similar collapse or speculate as to

its cause? 

Les

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

Any chance the front wheel bearing was tight or seized? She might inspect

the bearing. Just a guess.



-- Craig



--

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

Les,

 I can tell you that it was a very hard landing.  Just look at the axle on the nose gear, it takes a lot to get that to bend. My  guess is that it was either porpoised in and got out of control or it did not  hit the mains first and hit the nose gear first.

  

 Bob Spudis

  

  

  

 In a message dated 3/30/2009 3:55:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  lgold(at)quantum-associates.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Recently    a learned about a new (~30 flight hours) 701 that had its nose    gear

collapse on landing, causing considerable damage and was able to    obtain two

pictures (see attached).  The gear tube buckled and bent    back just above the

lower bearing, which bent the lower bearing and    firewall. The wheel bent

against the fus and deformed the lower structure    behind the gear. The

radiator was pushed up into the exhaust and holed, and    the bottom cowling

was damaged. The prop, and possibly the engine were also    casualties of this

collapse.  The wheel axle was bent up with the    bolts holding the axle to the

fork still in place. The fork was bent and    the tire pushed upward into the

fork so that the tire tread was cut by a    bolt on the inside of the fork. The

upper gear tube and upper bearing did    not appear to be affected. 

I was able to find out that the plane was not    overweight and the pilot and

passenger were not injured. The pilot said the    plane was built to Zenith

specs. She was making a, admittedly "hard", short    field landing on a paved

strip at a high angle of attack when it happened.    The main gear touched

first and was not damaged.

Like most of us, I have    made some awful hard landings in my 701 but have

been relieved to find    little or no gear damage. Until I learned about this

failure I thought that    701 gear was very resilient. Now I am beginning to

wonder. 

Have any of    you seen or experienced a similar collapse or speculate as to

its cause?    

Les 

	


 

  

 A Good Credit Score is 7001372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

petes15515(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

Seems like a classic C hard C nosewheel first type landing. I've not heard of any other similar nosewheel problems with the 701.

[quote] From: lgold(at)quantum-associates.com

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

 Date: Mon C 30 Mar 2009 12:51:55 -0700

 Recently a learned about a new (~30 flight hours) 701 that had its nose gear

 collapse on landing C causing considerable damage and was able to obtain two

 pictures (see attached). The gear tube buckled and bent back just above the

 lower bearing C which bent the lower bearing and firewall. The wheel bent

 against the fus and deformed the lower structure behind the gear. The

 radiator was pushed up into the exhaust and holed C and the bottom cowling

 was damaged. The prop C and possibly the engine were also casualties of this

 collapse. The wheel axle was bent up with the bolts holding the axle to the

 fork still in place. The fork was bent and the tire pushed upward into the

 fork so that the tire tread was cut by a bolt on the inside of the fork. The

 upper gear tube and upper bearing did not appear to be affected. 

 I was able to find out that the plane was not overweight and the pilot and

 passenger were not injured. The pilot said the plane was built to Zenith

 specs. She was making a C admittedly "hard" C short field landing on a paved

 strip at a high angle of attack when it happened. The main gear touched

 first and was not damaged.

 Like most of us C I have made some awful hard landings in my 701 but have

 been relieved to find little or no gear damage. Until I learned about this

 failure I thought that 701 gear was very resilient. Now I am beginning to

 wonder. 

 Have any of you seen or experienced a similar collapse or speculate as to

 its cause? 

 Les 

Windows Live Messenger makes it easier to stay in touch -  learn how!   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

Wow. If anything this reinforces how stout the 701 is.



How do you repair that damage? You would need to build a new floor pan complete with the frame rails and probably a new firewall as well.

 



DO NOT ARCHIVE

Is it possible that this was caused by a stall with a break just before the mains hit?

John Marzulli



http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/

 http://marzulli.smugmug.com/

http://701Builder.blogspot.com/

http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/

  



On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com (lgold(at)quantum-associates.com)> wrote:

[quote] Recently a learned about a new (~30 flight hours) 701 that had its nose gear

 collapse on landing, causing considerable damage and was able to obtain two

 pictures (see attached).  The gear tube buckled and bent back just above the

 lower bearing, which bent the lower bearing and firewall. The wheel bent

 against the fus and deformed the lower structure behind the gear. The

 radiator was pushed up into the exhaust and holed, and the bottom cowling

 was damaged. The prop, and possibly the engine were also casualties of this

 collapse.  The wheel axle was bent up with the bolts holding the axle to the

 fork still in place. The fork was bent and the tire pushed upward into the

 fork so that the tire tread was cut by a bolt on the inside of the fork. The

 upper gear tube and upper bearing did not appear to be affected.

 I was able to find out that the plane was not overweight and the pilot and

 passenger were not injured. The pilot said the plane was built to Zenith

 specs. She was making a, admittedly "hard", short field landing on a paved

 strip at a high angle of attack when it happened. The main gear touched

 first and was not damaged.

 Like most of us, I have made some awful hard landings in my 701 but have

 been relieved to find little or no gear damage. Until I learned about this

 failure I thought that 701 gear was very resilient. Now I am beginning to

 wonder.

 Have any of you seen or experienced a similar collapse or speculate as to

 its cause?

 Les

 [b]

totsimbo(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

To all C

         recently had an event with a 701. Touched down on mains and when the nosewheel lowered in a light to moderate manner the aircraft started to veer to the left . Right foot had no effect and the rate of turn increased resulting in the left wheel lifting and the right wing leading edge slat contacting the ground

  

 I was concerned that I may have applied right foot to the left rudder pedal on the other side which could be a danger with the peddals so close together C but wondered if that was the case why this had not happened before

  

 We dicovered shortly after buying the aircraft that the nosewheel axel was bent and I am now tending to think that the veering off to the left was due to failure following a prevous incident or number of incidents.

  

 Any thoughts or theories welcomed . Heck of a feeling when you put an imput into the controls that you have done for many years and hours and have no response.

  

 Tony

 

  From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com

Date: Mon C 30 Mar 2009 16:56:36 -0400

Subject: Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com



  Les C

 I can tell you that it was a very hard landing. Just look at the axle on the nose gear C it takes a lot to get that to bend. My guess is that it was either porpoised in and got out of control or it did not hit the mains first and hit the nose gear first.

  

 Bob Spudis

  

  

  

 In a message dated 3/30/2009 3:55:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time C lgold(at)quantum-associates.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Recently a learned about a new (~30 flight hours) 701 that had its nose gear

collapse on landing C causing considerable damage and was able to obtain two

pictures (see attached).  The gear tube buckled and bent back just above the

lower bearing C which bent the lower bearing and firewall. The wheel bent

against the fus and deformed the lower structure behind the gear. The

radiator was pushed up into the exhaust and holed C and the bottom cowling

was damaged. The prop C and possibly the engine were also casualties of this

collapse.  The wheel axle was bent up with the bolts holding the axle to the

fork still in place. The fork was bent and the tire pushed upward into the

fork so that the tire tread was cut by a bolt on the inside of the fork. The

upper gear tube and upper bearing did not appear to be affected. 

I was able to find out that the plane was not overweight and the pilot and

passenger were not injured. The pilot said the plane was built to Zenith

specs. She was making a C admittedly "hard" C short field landing on a paved

strip at a high angle of attack when it happened. The main gear touched

first and was not damaged.

Like most of us C I have made some awful hard landings in my 701 but have

been relieved to find little or no gear damage. Until I learned about this

failure I thought that 701 gear was very resilient. Now I am beginning to

wonder. 

Have any of you seen or experienced a similar collapse or speculate as to

its cause? 

Les 

	


 

  



  A Good Credit Score is 7001372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


	
Windows Live just got better. Find out more!  [quote][b]

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

I feel 99.99999999999% sure it didn't hit mains first.. There is more to this story then the pilot is admitting to....  My .02 cents worth.. 

do not archive





haaspowerair.com



--------

lrm(at)skyhawg.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

It bothered me when I built my 701 that the nose wheel axle was made of 

thin wall 4130 tubing with nuts welded in each end.  I threw it away and 

built a new one out of solid solid stainless steel.  A little more 

weight, but so what!!  It will not bend.  Larry, N1345L



Tony Sim wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   To all,

 

         recently had an event with a 701. Touched down on mains and when the nosewheel lowered in a light to moderate manner the aircraft started to veer to the left . Right foot had no effect and the rate of turn increased resulting in the left wheel lifting and the right wing leading edge slat contacting the ground

 

  

 

 I was concerned that I may have applied right foot to the left rudder pedal on the other side which could be a danger with the peddals so close together, but wondered if that was the case why this had not happened before

 

  

 

 We dicovered shortly after buying the aircraft that the nosewheel axel was bent and I am now tending to think that the veering off to the left was due to failure following a prevous incident or number of incidents.

 

  

 

 Any thoughts or theories welcomed . Heck of a feeling when you put an imput into the controls that you have done for many years and hours and have no response.

 

  

 

 Tony

  

 

 

 From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com

 Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:56:36 -0400

 Subject: Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 

 

 

 Les,

 I can tell you that it was a very hard landing. Just look at the axle on the nose gear, it takes a lot to get that to bend. My guess is that it was either porpoised in and got out of control or it did not hit the mains first and hit the nose gear first.

  

 Bob Spudis

  

  

  

 In a message dated 3/30/2009 3:55:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lgold(at)quantum-associates.com writes:

 Recently a learned about a new (~30 flight hours) 701 that had its nose gear

 collapse on landing, causing considerable damage and was able to obtain two

 pictures (see attached).  The gear tube buckled and bent back just above the

 lower bearing, which bent the lower bearing and firewall. The wheel bent

 against the fus and deformed the lower structure behind the gear. The

 radiator was pushed up into the exhaust and holed, and the bottom cowling

 was damaged. The prop, and possibly the engine were also casualties of this

 collapse.  The wheel axle was bent up with the bolts holding the axle to the

 fork still in place. The fork was bent and the tire pushed upward into the

 fork so that the tire tread was cut by a bolt on the inside of the fork. The

 upper gear tube and upper bearing did not appear to be affected. 

 I was able to find out that the plane was not overweight and the pilot and

 passenger were not injured. The pilot said the plane was built to Zenith

 specs. She was making a, admittedly "hard", short field landing on a paved

 strip at a high angle of attack when it happened. The main gear touched

 first and was not damaged.

 Like most of us, I have made some awful hard landings in my 701 but have

 been relieved to find little or no gear damage. Until I learned about this

 failure I thought that 701 gear was very resilient. Now I am beginning to

 wonder. 

 Have any of you seen or experienced a similar collapse or speculate as to

 its cause? 

 Les 

 

 

  

 

 

 A Good Credit Score is 7001372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!

 

 

 

 

 _________________________________________________________________

 All your Twitter and other social updates in one place 

 

 

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

I was told by both pilot and passenger that the mains did hit first and the plane was in a nose-high attitude when it touched down and that the main gear was not damaged.  

Les  

     

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh(at)netzero.com

 Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:20 PM

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear?  

  

   

I feel 99.99999999999% sure it didn't hit mains first.. There is more to this story then the pilot is admitting to....  My .02 cents worth..  

do not archive

 

 

 

 

 haaspowerair.com

 

 --------

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

Thats what I see as well.



Kevin



 	  arno7452(at)bellsouth.net wrote: 	
		  I too have made some hard landings in my CH701.  I would think that if the 

main gear properly touched down first, the nose gear would at worst case be 

jammed vertically.



These two photos look like the nose gear hit first.  Looks like the plane 

was in a nose down attitude and just bent the tube.  Since the axle was also 

bent, that must have been a hard strike.



Just my thoughts.

Ken



do not archive



--- 	
Th

_________________
â€œAlways do what you are afraid to do.â€
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

Maybe the nose came down hard after the mains ( total stall with break the instant the mains hit, loss of elevator authority, ect )?



DO NOT ARCHIVE

John Marzulli



http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/

 http://marzulli.smugmug.com/

http://701Builder.blogspot.com/

http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/

  



On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com (lgold(at)quantum-associates.com)> wrote:

[quote]              

I was told by both pilot and passenger that the mains did hit first and the plane was in a nose-high attitude when it touched down and that the main gear was not damaged.  

Les  

     

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of n801bh(at)netzero.com (n801bh(at)netzero.com)

  Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:20 PM

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

  

  

   

I feel 99.99999999999% sure it didn't hit mains first.. There is more to this story then the pilot is admitting to....  My .02 cents worth..  

do not archive

 

 

 

 

 haaspowerair.com

 

 --------

Joemotis(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

The first thing I see is a severely bent axle. I am going to guess this  happened before the leg itself failed. Joe Motis

 WW Corvair

 for the future 750

  

 Do not archive

  

  In a message dated 3/30/2009 12:55:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  lgold(at)quantum-associates.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Recently    a learned about a new (~30 flight hours) 701 that had its nose    gear

collapse on landing, causing considerable damage and was able to    obtain two

pictures (see attached).  The gear tube buckled and bent    back just above the

lower bearing, which bent the lower bearing and    firewall. The wheel bent

against the fus and deformed the lower structure    behind the gear. The

radiator was pushed up into the exhaust and holed, and    the bottom cowling

was damaged. The prop, and possibly the engine were also    casualties of this

collapse.  The wheel axle was bent up with the    bolts holding the axle to the

fork still in place. The fork was bent and    the tire pushed upward into the

fork so that the tire tread was cut by a    bolt on the inside of the fork. The

upper gear tube and upper bearing did    not appear to be affected. 

I was able to find out that the plane was not    overweight and the pilot and

passenger were not injured. The pilot said the    plane was built to Zenith

specs. She was making a, admittedly "hard", short    field landing on a paved

strip at a high angle of attack when it happened.    The main gear touched

first and was not damaged.

Like most of us, I have    made some awful hard landings in my 701 but have

been relieved to find    little or no gear damage. Until I learned about this

failure I thought that    701 gear was very resilient. Now I am beginning to

wonder. 

Have any of    you seen or experienced a similar collapse or speculate as to

its cause?    

Les 

	


 Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or less.

  [quote][b]

Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

Gentlemen,

what about this scenario?



If the mains hit first; the front can still hit hard enough to bend the axle.

Once the axle is bent, with the weight on the wheel the wheel is jammed against the fork, (Nuts dig into the tire) and the tire can't turn.

Then the strut folds.



Maybe even the axle was bent over the course of several "hard landings"

and finally bent far enough to Jam the wheel? 



That's my guess.

_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

b.carl@sympatico.ca

Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 77

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: Weak 701 Nose Gear?

Les.

I read your post earlier and was tempted to reply but did not because I 

thought others had covered the issue.

For the record my guess is that the damage was caused by a hard landing on 

the mains then a bounce with the next touchdown nose first. but I believe 

that this  is not news as it was covered by a previous post.

Seven years ago, a friend had an engine failure (532) and landed in a soft 

ploughed field. The front wheel dug-in and pushed the gear leg back along 

with the firewall and the front floor pan causing considerable damage. The 

gear leg was not damaged. I personally believe that the damage caused was 

due to overstress of what is a sound design and I made no change to my 701 

in that area.

What did get my attention was that the rudder pedals were pushed up and 

punctured the nose tank leaking fuel onto the floor pan and hence forward 

toward the engine. Fortunately because the exhaust pipe was cold and there 

were no electrical short , there was no fire.

This was a great motivator for me to remove my nose tank, expand wing tanks, 

and install a feed tank in the rear fuselage.

The most important mod I made to my 701.

Carl

---

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