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bolting wings on RV-6A

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sarg314(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

I am bolting on the wings for the last time - the electrical system is  

done, the engine installed, the fiberglass done and it's even all  

painted.  I just have to screw it all together, take care of 100  

little things and it will fly.



The left gear weldment has about 75% of the bolts in (no nuts on  

them)  and the rest of the holes in the weldment have locator pins in  

place EXCEPT for the two outboard AN3 bolts at the lower edge - right  

where the gear leg penetrates the fuselage.  These are the most  

inaccessible holes.  Inserting bolts in these holes from the aft side  

of the spar go thru pretty easily and stop hard at the weldment.  The  

misalignment isn't real obvious, but I can't get the bolts thru or  

even drive a tapered pin thru.  So, I guess those holes in the  

weldment need to be enlarged very slightly.



I could take all the bolts and pins out, remove the weldment and  

slightly enlarge or elongate those 2 holes in the weldment and then re- 

install.  I hate to do all that over again.  I noticed that a  3/16  

drill bit will slide thru the holes in the spar easily.  With a right  

angle drill I could just drill out those holes in the weldment.  Is  

this an acceptable practice, or is it too likely to damage the holes  

in the aluminum spar?  Or am I barking up the wrong tree entirely?



--

Almost There....

RV-6A  N811WT

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

thomas sargent wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am bolting on the wings for the last time - the electrical system is 

 done, the engine installed, the fiberglass done and it's even all 

 painted.  I just have to screw it all together, take care of 100 

 little things and it will fly.



 The left gear weldment has about 75% of the bolts in (no nuts on 

 them)  and the rest of the holes in the weldment have locator pins in 

 place EXCEPT for the two outboard AN3 bolts at the lower edge - right 

 where the gear leg penetrates the fuselage.  These are the most 

 inaccessible holes.  Inserting bolts in these holes from the aft side 

 of the spar go thru pretty easily and stop hard at the weldment.  The 

 misalignment isn't real obvious, but I can't get the bolts thru or 

 even drive a tapered pin thru.  So, I guess those holes in the 

 weldment need to be enlarged very slightly.



 I could take all the bolts and pins out, remove the weldment and 

 slightly enlarge or elongate those 2 holes in the weldment and then 

 re-install.  I hate to do all that over again.  I noticed that a  3/16 

 drill bit will slide thru the holes in the spar easily.  With a right 

 angle drill I could just drill out those holes in the weldment.  Is 

 this an acceptable practice, or is it too likely to damage the holes 

 in the aluminum spar?  Or am I barking up the wrong tree entirely?



 -- 

 Almost There....

 RV-6A  N811WT 


	


Call Van's.

or

Can you get them in by turning them while putting some pressure on them 

to start through the weldment?

or

Call Van's.

(hint, hint)



Charlie

Painless

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Peshtigo, Wisconsin

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

I had similar trouble.  I just carefully used a reamer and all was  

well.  Congrats on getting things buttoned up!



Regards,



Jeff Orear

RV6A  N782P



On Apr 4, 2009, at 7:13 PM, thomas sargent wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am bolting on the wings for the last time - the electrical system  

 is done, the engine installed, the fiberglass done and it's even all  

 painted.  I just have to screw it all together, take care of 100  

 little things and it will fly.



 The left gear weldment has about 75% of the bolts in (no nuts on  

 them)  and the rest of the holes in the weldment have locator pins  

 in place EXCEPT for the two outboard AN3 bolts at the lower edge -  

 right where the gear leg penetrates the fuselage.  These are the  

 most inaccessible holes.  Inserting bolts in these holes from the  

 aft side of the spar go thru pretty easily and stop hard at the  

 weldment.  The misalignment isn't real obvious, but I can't get the  

 bolts thru or even drive a tapered pin thru.  So, I guess those  

 holes in the weldment need to be enlarged very slightly.



 I could take all the bolts and pins out, remove the weldment and  

 slightly enlarge or elongate those 2 holes in the weldment and then  

 re-install.  I hate to do all that over again.  I noticed that a   

 3/16 drill bit will slide thru the holes in the spar easily.  With a  

 right angle drill I could just drill out those holes in the  

 weldment.  Is this an acceptable practice, or is it too likely to  

 damage the holes in the aluminum spar?  Or am I barking up the wrong  

 tree entirely?



 --

 Almost There....

 RV-6A  N811WT

_________________
Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P
Peshtigo, WI

sarg314(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

Charlie:



Yes, of course, but I can't call Van's until Monday.  I Tried what you  

suggest about applying pressure while turning, but couldn't make it  

work.



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Call Van's.

 or

 Can you get them in by turning them while putting some pressure on  

 them to start through the weldment?

 or

 Call Van's.

 (hint, hint)



 Charlie

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

Use a brass (never steel) drift against the bolt shaft to remove

it/them.  Heat the receiver to 200-250 degrees using a Heat/Shrink gun

for about 20 minutes prior to REINSERTION.  Place the attachment bolts

in a plastic sandwich bag inside a small six pack cooler with industrial

grade dry ice for at least four hours.  The attachment is a "Close

Tolerance" fit.  We use liquid nitrogen at work, but unless your girl

friend works for a dermatology clinic on Sunday that will be a stretch

for most builders.  Our heat gun can do a constant 950degrees and

beyond.  Don't know the wattage of Harbor Freight units.



Patience is a virtue.  Good Luck.  If they do not go in with less force

you will begin galling of the fastener shaft, scoring and removal of the

cadmium plating.  It is easy to read attachment bolts that have been

force fitted during Tech Inspections.  Hopefully you used a ream of the

correct size to prep the receiver.



John Cox



--

bertrv6(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

Thomas:



I do not recall, when I built mine, that I could not draw the bolts

in...I know they are very\

tight, but as you they are all close tolerance bolts for ovious reasons...



I would \ not  enlarge any holes, I suggest calling Vans, and get a

second opinion, before

going forward,,.

If I recalled, I think I use a heavy, long piece of wood, cut

specifically to fit thru the space,

and then with a heavy hammer, I was able insert the bolts completely,

but I am doing this

by memory, after 6 years....of course they have to be perfectly

aligned, a very little dab of

vaseline, only on thefirst thre or four threads, would help, be sure

to clean them after, before

the nut...



Hope give you some ideas.



good luck.



bert

rv6a



do noat archive



On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 8:13 PM, thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am bolting on the wings for the last time - the electrical system is done,

 the engine installed, the fiberglass done and it's even all painted.  I just

 have to screw it all together, take care of 100 little things and it will

 fly.



 The left gear weldment has about 75% of the bolts in (no nuts on them)  and

 the rest of the holes in the weldment have locator pins in place EXCEPT for

 the two outboard AN3 bolts at the lower edge - right where the gear leg

 penetrates the fuselage.  These are the most inaccessible holes.  Inserting

 bolts in these holes from the aft side of the spar go thru pretty easily and

 stop hard at the weldment.  The misalignment isn't real obvious, but I can't

 get the bolts thru or even drive a tapered pin thru.  So, I guess those

 holes in the weldment need to be enlarged very slightly.



 I could take all the bolts and pins out, remove the weldment and slightly

 enlarge or elongate those 2 holes in the weldment and then re-install.  I

 hate to do all that over again.  I noticed that a  3/16 drill bit will slide

 thru the holes in the spar easily.  With a right angle drill I could just

 drill out those holes in the weldment.  Is this an acceptable practice, or

 is it too likely to damage the holes in the aluminum spar?  Or am I barking

 up the wrong tree entirely?



 --

 Almost There....

 RV-6A  N811WT

Rick Galati

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 91
Location: Lake St. Louis MO.

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:35 am Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: bolting wings on RV-6A

To: sarg314(at)gmail.com

Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 5:31 AM

      Tom,

 I'd sure be reluctant to ream the holes. The landing gear weldments are attached to the spar mostly with AN3 bolts, NOT close tolerance bolts.  The fact is, at some point you did drill those holes through the weldments so at least during the drill out operation those holes did line up.ï¿½ Note exactly which holes that now don't line up prompting you to post a message. Then, start the installation process all over by removing the fasteners attaching the weldment, including the ones on the fuselage side. When the weldment is completely free, reinstall it by inserting the first AN bolt through a hole that does not now line up. Then, strategically insert a number of the bolts and/or combination of drift pins into a number of holes throughout the weldment leaving all loose.  Just barely start a nut on the first thread or two of  the bolts and do not run any down until you are sure the mismatch has been worked out.  

 Rick Galati  RV-6A  "Darla!"

 RV-8 

 [quote][b]

emrath(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:18 am Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

Thomas;



If I understand you correctly, these are not the close tolerance bolts in

the center section. If you end up removing the weldment from the plane, you

can have the holes welded shut, then re-assemble and re-drill the holes

using a drill guide and appropriate reamer.

How are you supporting the ship while you mount the wings?

Marty  

Time: 05:17:29 PM PST US

From: thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com>

Subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

I am bolting on the wings for the last time - the electrical system is  

done, the engine installed, the fiberglass done and it's even all  

painted.  I just have to screw it all together, take care of 100  

little things and it will fly.



The left gear weldment has about 75% of the bolts in (no nuts on  

them)  and the rest of the holes in the weldment have locator pins in  

place EXCEPT for the two outboard AN3 bolts at the lower edge - right  

where the gear leg penetrates the fuselage.  These are the most  

inaccessible holes.  Inserting bolts in these holes from the aft side  

of the spar go thru pretty easily and stop hard at the weldment.  The  

misalignment isn't real obvious, but I can't get the bolts thru or  

even drive a tapered pin thru.  So, I guess those holes in the  

weldment need to be enlarged very slightly.



I could take all the bolts and pins out, remove the weldment and  

slightly enlarge or elongate those 2 holes in the weldment and then re- 

install.  I hate to do all that over again.  I noticed that a  3/16  

drill bit will slide thru the holes in the spar easily.  With a right  

angle drill I could just drill out those holes in the weldment.  Is  

this an acceptable practice, or is it too likely to damage the holes  

in the aluminum spar?  Or am I barking up the wrong tree entirely?



--

Almost There....

RV-6A  N811WT



Marty  Ò¿Ó¬

chris_hand(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

How do you have the plane supported while doing this?

I had similar problems but was trying to put the remaining bolts in while 

the plane was on the gear with only the side bolts and some of the 

weldment/spar bolts installed.  I was able to resolve by taking the weight 

off that main gear when installing those bolts which allowed just enough 

shifting of the weldment to allow the holes to line up as originally drilled 

a number of years earlier.  There was a difference in hole alignment with 

weight on the gear as opposed to upside down in the jig without even the 

wheels on when the weldments were drilled to the spar.

With the wheel in the air, the methods described in earlier replies worked 

for me (turning and/or pressing in).



Chris

RV-6A, almost done with phase I

http://rv6aproject.ckhand.com/

---

sarg314(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

Marty:

	Yes, you are correct.  That would work and be the best from an  

engineering standpoint.  A lot of time and work, though.  I think it's  

so close already that I'll try a couple other things first.



The ship is supported on the right side by the landing gear installed  

with a wooden "false spar" and on the left with a saw horse under the  

bottom edge of the fire wall and another under the left rear wing spar  

attach point.  The left wing is supported by a saw horse out near the  

wing tip with a padded, hinged piece on it.  It's all freshly painted,  

so I have to take care to protect the paint.

On Apr 5, 2009, at 7:16 AM, Emrath wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thomas;



 If I understand you correctly, these are not the close tolerance  

 bolts in

 the center section. If you end up removing the weldment from the  

 plane, you

 can have the holes welded shut, then re-assemble and re-drill the  

 holes

 using a drill guide and appropriate reamer.

 How are you supporting the ship while you mount the wings?

 Marty

sarg314(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

Sending this again - it went just to Rick and I intended it for the whole list.

Rick:The gear weldments were delivered to me with almost all the holes already drilled.  I drilled (or drilled out - it's been years and I don't remember) some of the holes that go thru the side of the fuselage, but none that go thru the spar.  The holes for the  2 AN3 bolts I wrote my post about can only be drilled from the rear when the spar is drilled, so these were done by Van's.

I have never understood why the gear weldment holes all line up so poorly.  It's as though they drilled them in the steel parts and THEN welded the steel parts together to make the weldment and it warped a bit.  I have had to "adjust" nearly all the AN3 holes in the weldment, as I understand most RV-6A builders have.  I've had several conversations with van's about this in the past.  They just told me to get a small rat-tail file and make them fit.  I have never put the 2 AN3 bolts in question in before, so these 2 holes didn't get "fixed".

The method you describe is reasonable and may work, although it would be time consuming; there's lots of different bolt install sequences and there may be some that work better .  Adjusting the loading on the gear may shift it slightly too. 

I've been at this for 11 years already. I managed to use up that many calendars by doing things in very time consuming ways.   Being this close to the end I'd rather not give up any ground unless I absolutely have to.



On Apr 5, 2009, at 3:31 AM, Rick Galati wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Tom,

  

 I'd sure be reluctant to ream the holes. The landing gear weldments are attached to the spar mostly with AD3 bolts, NOT close tolerance bolts.  The fact is, at some point you did drill those holes through the weldments so at least during that drill out operation the holes lined up.  Note exactly which holes don't line up prompting you to post a message. Then start the installation process all over by removing the fasteners attaching the weldment, including the ones on the fuselage side. When the weldment is completely free, reinstall it by inserting the first bolt through a hole that does not now line up. Then, strategically insert a number of the bolts and/or drift pins into a number of holes along the weldment leaving all loose.  Just barely start a nut on the first thread or two of  the bolts and do not run any of then down until you are sure the mismatch has been worked out.  

  

 Rick Galati  RV-6A  "Darla!"

 RV-8 

	


 [quote][b]

sarg314(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:55 am Post subject: bolting wings on RV-6A

Chris:

	The wheel is dangling in the air, by only about 1/2", but it's  

dangling.  The plane's up on saw horses as I described in my last  

post.  I can put some load on it by shoving a wedge under the wheel.   

It also occurred to me that I could deflate the tire, put a thick  

board under it and then re-inflate to some degree to adjust the amount  

of load it's bearing.  I think I'll experiment with that this afternoon.

On Apr 5, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Chris Hand wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 How do you have the plane supported while doing this?

 I had similar problems but was trying to put the remaining bolts in  

 while the plane was on the gear with only the side bolts and some of  

 the weldment/spar bolts installed.  I was able to resolve by taking  

 the weight off that main gear when installing those bolts which  

 allowed just enough shifting of the weldment to allow the holes to  

 line up as originally drilled a number of years earlier.  There was  

 a difference in hole alignment with weight on the gear as opposed to  

 upside down in the jig without even the wheels on when the weldments  

 were drilled to the spar.

 With the wheel in the air, the methods described in earlier replies  

 worked for me (turning and/or pressing in).



 Chris

 RV-6A, almost done with phase I

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