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RV-12 question

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3edcft6(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots.  My question 

is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it 

goes faster than the max speed for that category?  What do you do?



do not archive



-- 

Chris W

KE5GIX



Gift Giving Made Easy

Get the gifts you want & 

give the gifts they want

One stop wish list for any gift, 

from anywhere, for any occasion!

http://thewishzone.com

flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

Don't let it do that . . . or at least don't admit to it!



Last year at OSH Van said "they were going to play by the book" so if you

follow their instructions I'm pretty sure you'll be ok?



Good Luck,

Bob

On 3/23/06, Chris W <3edcft6(at)cox.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots.  My question

 is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it

 goes faster than the max speed for that category?  What do you do?



 do not archive



 --

 Chris W

 KE5GIX



 Gift Giving Made Easy

 Get the gifts you want &

 give the gifts they want

 One stop wish list for any gift,

 from anywhere, for any occasion!

 http://thewishzone.com

jjessen(at)rcn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

Fly it slower.   



do not archive



--

7ecapilot(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

Certify that it's maximum speed in level flight under standard  

conditions at sea level is 120 kts at a maximum permissible  

continuous RPM setting. Then, provide operating limitations in your  

handbook and placards in your airplane. You are the manufacturer. You  

set the operating limitations. I have no idea if this will get past  

an FAA inspection, but I am pretty sure that is legal. Sonex, Ltd.  

declares that their 120hp version is LSA compliant. The maximum  

continuous RPM for the Jabiru 3300 (120hp) is 2750 rpm. When you  

extrapolate that to max continuous power('bout 108), their airplane  

tops out at 135 mph (roughly 117kts). But, Jabiru says you can run  

the engine to 3300 rpm for 10 minutes. So, for 10 minutes you can go  

faster than 135 mph. They say their airplanes will go 170mph at  

8000'. Builders of the Sonex 120hp have indicated that their  

airplanes easily fly 160 mph ('bout 139kts) at cruise altitudes. But,  

the reg stipulates maximum speed in level flight at sea level under  

standard conditions with maximum continuous power.



http://www.sportpilot.org/rule/sp_rule.pdf



ymmv, 



tw



On Mar 23, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Chris W wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots.  My  

 question

 is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it

 goes faster than the max speed for that category?  What do you do?



 do not archive



 -- 

 Chris W

 KE5GIX



 Gift Giving Made Easy

 Get the gifts you want &

 give the gifts they want

 One stop wish list for any gift,

 from anywhere, for any occasion!

 http://thewishzone.com

PFolbrecht(at)starkinvest
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

A ramp-check is never going to involve a flight test (on a standard day yet!) to ensure the IAS falls with the legal range. They will go by the specs and you can be sure that the RV-12, with Van's recommended engine/prop combo, will meet them.  Nothing to worry about.



do not archive



________________________________



From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Bob C.

Sent: Thu 3/23/2006 3:05 PM

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV-12 question






Don't let it do that . . . or at least don't admit to it!



Last year at OSH Van said "they were going to play by the book" so if you

follow their instructions I'm pretty sure you'll be ok?



Good Luck,

Bob

On 3/23/06, Chris W <3edcft6(at)cox.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots.  My question

 is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it

 goes faster than the max speed for that category?  What do you do?



 do not archive



 --

 Chris W

 KE5GIX



 Gift Giving Made Easy

 Get the gifts you want &

 give the gifts they want

 One stop wish list for any gift,

 from anywhere, for any occasion!

 http://thewishzone.com

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

Chris W wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots.  My question 

is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it 

goes faster than the max speed for that category?  What do you do?



Keep your new-found knowledge to yourself!!! 
	


Linn



 	  Quote: 	
		  

do not archive

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

Easy. Put a self imposed RPM limit on you engine and note same in the "owner 

operating limitations".   KABONG

---

flynlow(at)usaviator.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

"What do you do?"



Well......



If yer Catholic:

Perhaps 4 "Hail Mary's" 2 "Our Fathers" and 1 "Act of Contrition" would be

sufficient, then go fly.



If yer anything else

Perhaps say: "OOPS" then go fly.



All's well that ends well they say....



Bud Silvers

RV8 Fastback - Finishing



Do not archive

rv8(at)lazy8.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

Take it back apart, give the kit back to Van and demand your money back!



Chris W wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots.  My question 

is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it 

goes faster than the max speed for that category?  What do you do?



do not archive

Robin Marks

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 24
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

If your RV-12 flies too fast after it is first assembled follow these

instructions in order:



Step 1:	Fly for 500 hours to see if performance decreases due to lower

engine / prop efficiencies.



Step 2:	If you notice no reduction in performance repeat step 1.



Step 3:	Continue to TBO.



Please, please, please do not archive....

_________________
RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 0-360 - C/S Flying

BPA(at)bpaengines.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: RV-12 question

Use the throttle to your advantage 



--

mrobert569(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

Actually, you are a bit off on this reply.  If you build a light-sport 

certified kit you can not do what you want, but must build it exactly as the 

manufacturer calls out in their assembly manual.  any deviations must be 

approved by the manufacturer.  Other than that you are OK.

Mike Robertson

Das Fed

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Terry Williams <7ecapilot(at)comcast.net>

Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV-12 question

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:30:10 -0800

Certify that it's maximum speed in level flight under standard

conditions at sea level is 120 kts at a maximum permissible

continuous RPM setting. Then, provide operating limitations in your

handbook and placards in your airplane. You are the manufacturer. You

set the operating limitations. I have no idea if this will get past

an FAA inspection, but I am pretty sure that is legal. Sonex, Ltd.

declares that their 120hp version is LSA compliant. The maximum

continuous RPM for the Jabiru 3300 (120hp) is 2750 rpm. When you

extrapolate that to max continuous power('bout 108), their airplane

tops out at 135 mph (roughly 117kts). But, Jabiru says you can run

the engine to 3300 rpm for 10 minutes. So, for 10 minutes you can go

faster than 135 mph. They say their airplanes will go 170mph at

8000'. Builders of the Sonex 120hp have indicated that their

airplanes easily fly 160 mph ('bout 139kts) at cruise altitudes. But,

the reg stipulates maximum speed in level flight at sea level under

standard conditions with maximum continuous power.

http://www.sportpilot.org/rule/sp_rule.pdf

ymmv, 

tw

On Mar 23, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Chris W wrote:

 > 

 >

 > The RV-12 is shooting for the light sport licensed pilots.  My

 > question

 > is suppose you build one to spec and find after flight testing that it

 > goes faster than the max speed for that category?  What do you do?

 >

 > do not archive

 >

 > --

 > Chris W

 > KE5GIX

 >

 > Gift Giving Made Easy

 > Get the gifts you want &

 > give the gifts they want

 > One stop wish list for any gift,

 > from anywhere, for any occasion!

 > http://thewishzone.com

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

gyoung

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Location: Republic of Texas

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

That's for the "certified" LSA kit. Isn't there still an Experimental LSA category that has the same latitude its big brother Amateur-Built Experimental enjoys?



Greg Young



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>

 

 Actually, you are a bit off on this reply.  If you build a 

 light-sport certified kit you can not do what you want, but 

 must build it exactly as the manufacturer calls out in their 

 assembly manual.  any deviations must be approved by the 

 manufacturer.  Other than that you are OK.

 

 Mike Robertson

 Das Fed

 


	


--

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: Re: RV-12 question

 	  gyoung wrote: 	
		  That's for the "certified" LSA kit. Isn't there still an Experimental LSA category that has the same latitude its big brother Amateur-Built Experimental enjoys?



Greg Young



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>

 

 Actually, you are a bit off on this reply.  If you build a 

 light-sport certified kit you can not do what you want, but 

 must build it exactly as the manufacturer calls out in their 

 assembly manual.  any deviations must be approved by the 

 manufacturer.  Other than that you are OK.

 

 Mike Robertson

 Das Fed

 



	


-- 	




You are correct. If the kit still meets the 51% rule, then it is still experimental. I don't know how Van's intends to market the RV-12, but I assumed it would be as a E-LSA.

mrobert569(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

Through January 2008 there is latitude because we can get it in under the 

"existing aircraft" category.  But all these existing aircraft are supposed 

to be certificated prior to January 2008.  After that there is a serious 

question.  I think there will be some way to handle it but in what form I do 

not know at this time.



Mike Robertson

das Fed

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Greg Young" <gyoung(at)cs-sol.com>

Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: RV-12 question

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:47:10 -0600






That's for the "certified" LSA kit. Isn't there still an Experimental LSA 

category that has the same latitude its big brother Amateur-Built 

Experimental enjoys?



Greg Young



 >

 > 

 > <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>

 >

 > Actually, you are a bit off on this reply.  If you build a

 > light-sport certified kit you can not do what you want, but

 > must build it exactly as the manufacturer calls out in their

 > assembly manual.  any deviations must be approved by the

 > manufacturer.  Other than that you are OK.

 >

 > Mike Robertson

 > Das Fed

 >



--

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: Re: RV-12 question

 	  mrobert569(at)hotmail.com wrote: 	
		  Through January 2008 there is latitude because we can get it in under the 

"existing aircraft" category.  But all these existing aircraft are supposed 

to be certificated prior to January 2008.  After that there is a serious 

question.  I think there will be some way to handle it but in what form I do 

not know at this time.



Mike Robertson



	


Are you saying that after 2008 there will be no E-LSA?

mrobert569(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: RV-12 question

ELSA isn't going to go away but the sub-qualifications under ELA that covers 

existing aircraft may change.  We will just have to wait and see how it goes 

and how to manage/manipulate it.



Mike Robertson

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV-12 question

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:39:40 -0800




mrobert569(at)hotmail.com wrote:

 > Through January 2008 there is latitude because we can get it in under 

the

 > "existing aircraft" category.  But all these existing aircraft are 

supposed

 > to be certificated prior to January 2008.  After that there is a serious

 > question.  I think there will be some way to handle it but in what form 

I do

 > not know at this time.

 >

 > Mike Robertson

 >

 >



Are you saying that after 2008 there will be no E-LSA?





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=25349#25349

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: Re: RV-12 question

 	  mrobert569(at)hotmail.com wrote: 	
		  ELSA isn't going to go away but the sub-qualifications under ELA that covers 

existing aircraft may change.  We will just have to wait and see how it goes 

and how to manage/manipulate it.



Mike Robertson



	




Actually, I think the "existing aircraft" qualification applies to ultralights that have not been previously certified, so they can get the E-LSA certification before 2008. It absolutely does not effect the rules that apply to other aircraft. If someone buys an RV-12, they will have a choice to certify it either as E-LSA or experimental, amateur built. In either case, it can be flown by a sport pilot because it meets the definition of a LSA. The definition of an LSA is based upon certain performance parameters, weight, and number of seats etc. It is not in any way defined by the certification it receives, ie - standard, E-LSA, S-LSA, or experimental, amateur built.

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