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Great Oil Debate

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rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: Great Oil Debate

If you are thick skinned and willing to take a severe beating for having an opinion, please post what you think is the best, or best valued, 50:1 2-cycle oil.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Great Oil Debate

Ryan, 

I thought you was already oil injected?  IF so the pump will meter your oil for you.  If not then 50 to 1  will be the ticket.  Any API TC rated oil should do you fine.   If you choose synthetics then be cautioned that they do not offer the  same corrosion protection as a mineral based oil does.   



But if you a nut like some of us your plane will never sit idle more than a day or two.

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: Great Oil Debate

For my 582....  Bombardier XPS mineral oil...  Its cheap ( in bulk), its

API-TC rated, not just meets similar standard, it's made by or for the

manufacturer of my engine and it's available at any Bombardier dealership.



Just one thing I'm the exception to the rule...  If anyone can show me a

better oil I'll  use it.  In this climate corrosion protection is paramount.

I have no loyalties to defend.



Noel



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rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Great Oil Debate

 	  occom wrote: 	
		  Just curious, what Amsoil are you planning to use? While they do not provide 

detailed oil use information on their website they do indicate oil usage at 

100:1 or richer and most of their 100:1 oils appear to specify 50:1 in 

premix 	




Occom,



They are all API-TC certified, but I have been using the Amsoil Saber Pro 100:1.  The idea was that it was twice as expensive as the Pennzoil, but you used half as much.  When I get back to 50:1 for the oil injection, I could use the same or go to the HP or Intercepter which are designed as 50:1, but they are almost the same price.  That being said, if I am going to pay the extra money (which I will do, since I do not care for the Pennzoil), then I might as well look at the others mentioned (XPS, Citgo, etc) since they would now be equal in price or even cheaper per gallon.

rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Great Oil Debate

Are the BPM XP-S/XPS Synthetic and Mineral oils compatible with each other?  Meaning, could you run the synthetic during the main flying season to capitalize on it's properties, and then start using the mineral oil just before the "slow" season to help with corrosion?

rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Great Oil Debate

How about the oils listed in Rotax SI-2ST-008 (2-cycle)? Anybody use those?

 

To read go to http://www.rotax-owner.com/ 

 

Click the "Information Service Bulletins" button. (lower left)

 

On next page, click the "Information Service Bulletins" button, again.

 

Click the "All 2 (or 4) stroke Service Instruction Documents" and then the "Search" button.

 

You can sign-in as a guest if the site asks.

 

This service information was generated recently so the bulletins are located at the end of the list.

 

2-cycle number is SI-2ST-008 

4-cycle numbers are SI912-016 and SI914-019

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:53 am Post subject: Re: Great Oil Debate

Ryan,



I have mentioned in the past posts about Shell Advance oil we have available her in Canada.  As well as Csstrol super 2 stroke oil that you might find at Walmart. ?  Read the labels, you want API- TC rating. It can be TCW3 rated as well at API.tc but not just TCW3 as that is outboard oil and not to be used.  You see outboard engines have a constant supply of water at ? 32 F to 90F all the time.  Heck our thermostats do not even open untill 135F . 582s like  160 to 176 F. 



Regardless , it remains the same  API-TC. I don;t see Amsoil there .  I can only tell you that I have no issues with what I use nor  any of my locals. 



Forget about the 100 to 1 stuff.   Oil injection is the leanest you want to go.  It is automatic.  If you doing aerobatics and doing  neg Gs  then i would consider pre mix.  



http://www.cfisher.com/oildebate.html



Hope this helps,

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:27 am Post subject: Great Oil Debate

Good post, thanks.

Deke

do not archive





 	  Quote: 	
		   



 How about the oils listed in Rotax SI-2ST-008 (2-cycle)? Anybody use 

 those?



 To read go to http://www.rotax-owner.com/



 Click the "Information Service Bulletins" button. (lower left)



 On next page, click the "Information Service Bulletins" button, again.



 Click the "All 2 (or 4) stroke Service Instruction Documents" and then the 

 "Search" button.



 You can sign-in as a guest if the site asks.



 This service information was generated recently so the bulletins are 

 located at the end of the list.



 2-cycle number is SI-2ST-008

 4-cycle numbers are SI912-016 and SI914-019





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 38740#238740

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Great Oil Debate

Deke,  I put this up the other day.  

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238595#238595



I just edited it  - adding  503 /582  engines have the same approval for the use of ethanol fuel .

That doc that Ryan posted  covers that. 

This might be the link here 

http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/serviceinfo/si-2st-008.pdf



So just make sure the restof your fuel system can handle it .  My Tanks are 1992-93 tanks with NO KREEM  and I have run over  2000  gallons of ethanol gas through them and had NO issues YET. 

My only beef on Ethanol Gas is you get less power and use more fuel .SO FAR . 

 	  Fox5flyer wrote: 	
		  Good post, thanks.

Deke

do not archive





 	  Quote: 	
		   



 How about the oils listed in Rotax SI-2ST-008 (2-cycle)? Anybody use 

 those?



 To read go to http://www.rotax-owner.com/



 Click the "Information Service Bulletins" button. (lower left)



 On next page, click the "Information Service Bulletins" button, again.



 Click the "All 2 (or 4) stroke Service Instruction Documents" and then the 

 "Search" button.



 You can sign-in as a guest if the site asks.



 This service information was generated recently so the bulletins are 

 located at the end of the list.



 2-cycle number is SI-2ST-008

 4-cycle numbers are SI912-016 and SI914-019





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 38740#238740

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:48 am Post subject: Great Oil Debate

You have to be very careful when it comes to the API ratings...  API-TC

rated and API-TC certified are two completely different animals.



The first one says manufacturer warrants the oil to pass some of the API

specs.  Usually the container will say something like, "Meets or exceeds

API-TC specifications.



The other is actually passed by API and is very expensive to obtain.  On

that container the label will say API-TC certified.



 Many oil manufacturers walk the legal tightrope on this issue because the

API certification is difficult and expensive to obtain.  I have been to one

shop where they had several brands and blends of two stroke oil.  Almost

every bottle advertised API-TC, not to mention TCW-3.  But only one,

surprisingly not the most expensive, said API-TC certified and actually

carried the API seal.  I guess when it comes to oil we should follow the

grocery shopping credo and read the labels carefully.



Amazing to be discussing oils this late in the winter when we all should be

digging our planes out of the drifts and getting ready to fly 



Noel



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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:39 am Post subject: Great Oil Debate

Dave:



Will the Bing carbs work in negative G?



Noel



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JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Great Oil Debate

 	  rawheels wrote: 	
		  Are the BPM XP-S/XPS Synthetic and Mineral oils compatible with each other?  Meaning, could you run the synthetic during the main flying season to capitalize on it's properties, and then start using the mineral oil just before the "slow" season to help with corrosion? 	




Here on a forum its hard to get a near unanimous consensus on anything, but your last thread got it with many many posts from experienced people saying what you were proposing was a really bad and dangerous idea...    There was also a lot of good information in that thread that Amsoil 2 cycle oil is not a good choice in 2 cycle engines.   You still seem to not understand the fact that not all synthetics are created equal, and you are still operating under the assumption that amsoil " Synthetic " 2 cycle oil is going to have better running properties than non synthetic 2 cycle oil.  Its not just corrosion protection that is the problem with Amsoil 2 cycle, there is a lot more to it than that.



Mike

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Great Oil Debate

 	  Float Flyr wrote: 	
		  Dave:



Will the Bing carbs work in negative G?



Noel



-- 	




negative there Noel  no pun intended.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Great Oil Debate

What is the actual issue with Amsoil ?   

I don;t use it but I want to know why you are saying that    Its not just corrosion protection that is the problem with Amsoil 2 cycle, 





Is there some documented info that you would like to share ? 

Dave

 	  JetPilot wrote: 	
		   	  rawheels wrote: 	
		  Are the BPM XP-S/XPS Synthetic and Mineral oils compatible with each other?  Meaning, could you run the synthetic during the main flying season to capitalize on it's properties, and then start using the mineral oil just before the "slow" season to help with corrosion? 	




Here on a forum its hard to get a near unanimous consensus on anything, but your last thread got it with many many posts from experienced people saying what you were proposing was a really bad and dangerous idea...    There was also a lot of good information in that thread that Amsoil 2 cycle oil is not a good choice in 2 cycle engines.   You still seem to not understand the fact that not all synthetics are created equal, and you are still operating under the assumption that amsoil " Synthetic " 2 cycle oil is going to have better running properties than non synthetic 2 cycle oil.  Its not just corrosion protection that is the problem with Amsoil 2 cycle, there is a lot more to it than that.



Mike

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