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Steve Whittman Fatality and Fabric Processing

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: Steve Whittman Fatality and Fabric Processing

Finally, came up with the date and NTSB page on the Steve Whittman accident:



http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 001207X03218&key=1



john h

mkIII

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: Steve Whittman Fatality and Fabric Processing

That NTSB report is a CYA deal.  Cotton fabric and nitrate glues and  

dopes are still "approved".

In Steve's case he had cemented cotton over plywood.  This was the  

usual way to finish such planes with

wood wings such as the Bellanca and Mooney.  Nothing lasts forever.

BB



On 12, Apr 2009, at 9:21 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Finally, came up with the date and NTSB page on the Steve Whittman  

 accident:



 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 001207X03218&key=1



 john h

 mkIII

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: Steve Whittman Fatality and Fabric Processing

> That NTSB report is a CYA deal.  Cotton fabric and nitrate glues and

 	  Quote: 	
		   dopes are still "approved".

 In Steve's case he had cemented cotton over plywood.  This was the  usual 

 way to finish such planes with

 wood wings such as the Bellanca and Mooney.  Nothing lasts forever.

 BB


	




Bob:



Reread the report.  Steve put down nitrate on top of the plywood, then 

dacron, then more natrate, Stitts stuff, etc.  I didn't see anything about 

cotton.



john h

mkIII

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:32 pm Post subject: Steve Whittman Fatality and Fabric Processing

That sounds right.  Nitrate dope is absorbed into cotton whereas  

dacron won't suck up much of anything.

Stits, ceconite and the AS cheap stuff are all dacron with possibly a  

different thread texture or weave.

All the old methods, including using Rando-bond to glue dacron are  

still legal as far as I know, whether

a good choice or not.  Old methods get grandfathered while some new  

and better ideas have to fight for recognition.

You can still legally scarf splice a wooden spar with casein (dried  

milk protein) glue but I would prefer

a later product.

BB

On 12, Apr 2009, at 10:08 PM, John Hauck wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 > That NTSB report is a CYA deal.  Cotton fabric and nitrate glues and

> dopes are still "approved".

> In Steve's case he had cemented cotton over plywood.  This was  

> the  usual way to finish such planes with

> wood wings such as the Bellanca and Mooney.  Nothing lasts forever.

> BB

 Bob:

 Reread the report.  Steve put down nitrate on top of the plywood,  

 then dacron, then more natrate, Stitts stuff, etc.  I didn't see  

 anything about cotton.

 john h

 mkIII

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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: Steve Whittman Fatality and Fabric Processing

From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:08:18 PM

Subject: Re: Steve Whittman Fatality and Fabric Processing

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 	  Quote: 	
		   That NTSB report is a CYA deal.  Cotton fabric and nitrate glues and

 dopes are still "approved".

 In Steve's case he had cemented cotton over plywood.  This was the  usual way to finish such planes with

 wood wings such as the Bellanca and Mooney.  Nothing lasts forever.

 BB

Bob:

Reread the report.  Steve put down nitrate on top of the plywood, then dacron, then more natrate, Stitts stuff, etc.  I didn't see anything about cotton.

john h

mkIII 

The story I remember from when it happened went like this:

With the older brand of the synthetic covering, the weave was open enough that the procedure was to just put the cement on through the fabric to activate the previously applied cement  on the structure.

The newer brand/process had a much tighter weave & the cement couldn't flow through, so it had to be applied wet under the fabric. Story was, Steve was used to the old process & because he didn't put the on the cement wet under the fabric, there was inadequate adhesion; finally failing after years of flying.

I could be wrong; it's happened before (I'm told).

Charlie

 [quote][b]

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The BaronVonEvil

Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Walla Walla, WA.

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Steve Whittman Fatality and Fabric Processing

Hi All,



In the NTSB report, they indicated Steve had mixed layers of dope and Stits Polyfiber.  Nitrate dope is a cellulose base product while Polyfiber is a vinyl based material.



Basically there was no continuity between the layers of dope and polyfiber( that is to say they didn't bond together).



Yes , dope, cotton and polyfiber are "approved"  but they should never be used with one another but only applied as a complete single system or process.



Steve was an icon of aviation and has been greatly missed but, even people of his great experience and skills make mistakes. 



I hope that we can all learn something from this sad lesson.



Carlos G.

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