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ZBAGers to the rescue
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dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:09 am Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

Well guys and gals, I'm sorry to have to tell you that the ZBAGers have screwed my pooch for the time being. My airworthiness inspection was scheduled for 2PM this afternoon.  At the urging of the NTSB, the FAA has decided not to issue any more airworthiness certificates on 601XLs until this mess is sorted out. Realistic estimates of delay would range from a couple of months to never. I cannot express how angry and frustrated I am at having busybody types save me from their imaginary demon against my will. My inspector called this morning with the news that his superiors told him to call off the inspection indefinitely. I know that I will be accused of sticking my head in the sand, but my counter-accusation is that some who have their heads stuck up their butts are sticking their noses in my business. (How's that for a mixed metaphor?) 

 

Now here is the insanity of the situation... if the inspection had been done yesterday or the day before, my plane would be legal to fly. That same plane today is in some beaurocratic limbo that may prohibit its flight for many months. Go ahead and try to convince me that this would have happened anyway if the ZBAGers had simply minded their own business. I truly don't mind that their instincts move them to investigate and explore options and mods on their own planes... that is well within their rights. What I object to is the fact that while they carry on this pissing contest, all our shoes are getting wet. I know, I know... I am being saved from certain death in this tradgically flawed airframe... got all that. Thanks just the same, I'm not that impressed. Or grateful for that matter. 

 

Sorry for the rant but I am a responsible, self reliant sort of person who 

resents being nannied to death. 

 

Ed Moody II 

N4568G 

601XL / Jabiru 3300 (very expensive go-cart right now)

hansriet

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 93

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue

Ed,



That's a major bummer, I feel your pain.

Hopefully for you and for the rest of us, Zenith will soon release an approved aileron balance modification and this will all go away.

tigerrick(at)mindspring.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

Well, Ed, I know it's not much consolation, but you're not alone. I know of several folks who are in your exact same position - ready for inspection but unable to find a DAR who will sign them off.



The law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head again.



Maybe this will fast-track a resolution that we can all benefit from. I hope.



Rick Lindstrom

Zenvair N42KP



do not archive



--

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue

Does the option exist to register it as something like an "Ed Special"?



Or "converting" to the 650 (and then calling it a 650) by sending in the first page of your drawings (and $400 or something like that) which gets you a new build number saying it's a 650 from Zenith.



Lot of us who have started building in the last 2 or 3 years (myself included) are in the middle ground of having airplanes that started as XL's, but have incorporated many 650 parts.  So are they "XL's" or "650's"?



Hope this all works out for the best.



Patrick

N63PZ - XL/650/Corvair - getting close................

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:39 am Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

I don't want to bet a lot of money on the FAA's brilliance, but even 

those bureaucrats are smart enough to realize a 650 is just a renamed 

XL.  I, for one, firmly believe the reason ZAC changed the name was 

to avoid liability for producing the XL.  I remember they originally 

took the firm position that they would not produce the 650 as a kit plane.



Paul

XL grounded



At 12:18 PM 4/17/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Or "converting" to the 650 (and then calling it a 650) by sending in 

the first page of your drawings (and $400 or something like that) 

which gets you a new build number saying it's a 650 from Zenith.

Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

So what does Zenith say now! That we can't get an inspection done.  

David Coberly  98% done 601XL  [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:51 am Post subject: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue

If you mean legal liability there is nothing about coming up with a new name or in this case number that would reduce Zenith's liability.

 	  psm(at)att.net wrote: 	
		  I don't want to bet a lot of money on the FAA's brilliance, but even 

those bureaucrats are smart enough to realize a 650 is just a renamed 

XL.  I, for one, firmly believe the reason ZAC changed the name was 

to avoid liability for producing the XL.  I remember they originally 

took the firm position that they would not produce the 650 as a kit plane.



Paul

XL grounded



At 12:18 PM 4/17/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Or "converting" to the 650 (and then calling it a 650) by sending in 

the first page of your drawings (and $400 or something like that) 

which gets you a new build number saying it's a 650 from Zenith.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

David,

 Have you called Zenith?

 Ken

  

 do not archive

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

zenithlist(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

More bad news indeed, and as I predicted, I won't be able to get an airworthiness inspection scheduled for mid-May.  I am very disappointed as well and have the urge to point fingers at one or more group/entity for the blame but that would not do any good at resolving the problems at hand.  Why don't we vent our anger into something more constructive such as identifying an entity that can provide quick and reliable fix(es) in a prompt and responsible manners?  I could only come up with one entity and that is Zenith.  Why don't we find ways to pressure Zenith to provide possible solutions quickly?

   From: "dredmoody(at)cox.net" <dredmoody(at)cox.net>

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:08:16 PM

Subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

--> Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody(at)cox.net (dredmoody(at)cox.net)>

Well guys and gals, I'm sorry to have to tell you that the ZBAGers have screwed my pooch for the time being. My airworthiness inspection was scheduled for 2PM this afternoon.  At the urging of the NTSB, the FAA has decided not to issue any more airworthiness certificates on 601XLs until this mess is sorted out. Realistic estimates of delay would range from a couple of months to never. I cannot express how angry and frustrated I am at having  busybody types save me from their imaginary demon against my will. My inspector called this morning with the news that his superiors told him to call off the inspection indefinitely. I know that I will be accused of sticking my head in the sand, but my counter-accusation is that some who have their heads stuck up their butts are sticking their noses in my business. (How's that for a mixed metaphor?) 

Now here is the insanity of the situation... if the inspection had been done yesterday or the day before, my plane would be legal to fly. That same plane today is in some beaurocratic limbo that may prohibit its flight for many months. Go ahead and try to convince me that this would have happened anyway if the ZBAGers had simply minded their own business. I truly don't mind that their instincts move them to investigate and explore options and mods on their own planes... that is well within their rights. What I object to is the fact that while they  carry on this pissing contest, all our shoes are getting wet. I know, I know... I am being saved from certain death in this tradgically flawed airframe... got all that. Thanks just the same, I'm not that impressed. Or grateful for that matter. 

Sorry for the rant but I am a responsible, self reliant sort of person who 

resents being nannied to death. 

Ed Moody II 

N4568G 

601XL / Jabiru 3300 (very expensive go-cart right n-->                    -Matt Drall============

          [quote][b]

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

If you haven't registered the airplane yet, you can call it anything  

you want. You are the manufacturer.



On Apr 17, 2009, at 3:18 PM, PatrickW wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Does the option exist to register it as something like an "Ed  

 Special"?



 Or "converting" to the 650 (and then calling it a 650) by sending in  

 the first page of your drawings (and $400 or something like that)  

 which gets you a new build number saying it's a 650 from Zenith.



 Lot of us who have started building in the last 2 or 3 years (myself  

 included) are in the middle ground of having airplanes that started  

 as XL's, but have incorporated many 650 parts.  So are they "XL's"  

 or "650's"?



 Hope this all works out for the best.



 Patrick

 N63PZ - XL/650/Corvair - getting close................


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

rjscep(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

 	  Quote: 	
		   Well guys, who love fly, guess what? the wonderful EPA has implimented

 New  Pollution Limits caused by cars, trucks and big plants. I do think

 they have in mind any gasoline combustable engines, which means the 

 homebuilt, antiques and classic planes not to mention the Antique autos

 and all the gambit you can think of. Welcome to Nazi Germany or socialism

 Food for thought> Do not archive..  


	


--- On Fri, 4/17/09, dredmoody(at)cox.net <dredmoody(at)cox.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: dredmoody(at)cox.net <dredmoody(at)cox.net>

 Subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 7:08 PM

 

 <dredmoody(at)cox.net>

 

 Well guys and gals, I'm sorry to have to tell you that the

 ZBAGers have screwed my pooch for the time being. My

 airworthiness inspection was scheduled for 2PM this

 afternoon.  At the urging of the NTSB, the FAA has

 decided not to issue any more airworthiness certificates on

 601XLs until this mess is sorted out. Realistic estimates of

 delay would range from a couple of months to never. I cannot

 express how angry and frustrated I am at having busybody

 types save me from their imaginary demon against my will. My

 inspector called this morning with the news that his

 superiors told him to call off the inspection indefinitely.

 I know that I will be accused of sticking my head in the

 sand, but my counter-accusation is that some who have their

 heads stuck up their butts are sticking their noses in my

 business. (How's that for a mixed metaphor?) 

  

 Now here is the insanity of the situation... if the

 inspection had been done yesterday or the day before, my

 plane would be legal to fly. That same plane today is in

 some beaurocratic limbo that may prohibit its flight for

 many months. Go ahead and try to convince me that this would

 have happened anyway if the ZBAGers had simply minded their

 own business. I truly don't mind that their instincts move

 them to investigate and explore options and mods on their

 own planes... that is well within their rights. What I

 object to is the fact that while they carry on this pissing

 contest, all our shoes are getting wet. I know, I know... I

 am being saved from certain death in this tradgically flawed

 airframe... got all that. Thanks just the same, I'm not that

 impressed. Or grateful for that matter. 

  

 Sorry for the rant but I am a responsible, self reliant

 sort of person who 

 resents being nannied to death. 

  

 Ed Moody II 

 N4568G 

 601XL / Jabiru 3300 (very expensive go-cart right now) 

 

 Email Forum -

 FAQ,

    - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 List Contribution Web Site -

               -Matt

 Dralle, List Admin.

hansriet

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 93

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue

Nazi Germany equals socialism?

Man, I'm so happy to be part of this list, I learn so much every day.



do not archive

notsew_evets(at)frontiern
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

National/Socialism.....=  NAZI

---

hansriet

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 93

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue

And that has exactly nothing to do with socialism.



do not archive

zenithlist(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

If you build from Zenith kit, renaming it won't accomplish much cause the builder has to declare the kit type and provide the bill of sales to the FAA.  If you start from XL, whether full or component kit, I suspect Zenith will provide you a XL bill of sales.  If you modify the kit, you should be ready to provide ample evidences why you modified the kit, soundness and airworthiness of the changes, and whether or not your kit still meets amateur build qualifications.

   From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net>

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 5:05:36 PM

Subject: Re: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue

--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net (bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net)>

If you haven't registered the airplane yet, you can call it anything you want. You are the manufacturer.

On Apr 17, 2009, at 3:18 PM, PatrickW wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)>

 Does the option exist to register it as something like an "Ed  Special"?

 Or "converting" to the 650 (and then calling it a 650) by sending in the first page of your drawings (and $400 or something like that) which gets you a new build number saying it's a 650 from Zenith.

 Lot of us who have started building in the last 2 or 3 years (myself included) are in the middle ground of having airplanes that started as XL's, but have incorporated many 650 parts.  So are they "XL's" or "650's"?

 Hope this all works out for the best.

 Patrick

 N63PZ - XL/650/Corvair - getting close................

--Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, ==============================

          [quote][b]

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

Yes, you do need to learn something. I am old enough to remember that the National Socialist Party (German: Nationalsozialis), was commonly called the Nazi Party. Apparently you are not old enough nor well-read enough to know that..

 

 Jay Bannister

 

 Do not archive

 

   

 [/url][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#cite_note-1][/url][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#cite_note-3]

   

 

 --

hansriet

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 93

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue

I'm just saying that Nationalsozialismus has nothing to do with socialism.

If you think it does, then it's you who needs to read up on the topic.



Anyway I don't see what this all has to do with the advise of the NTSC to the FAA to ground airplanes during an investigation into crashes that have cost 10 souls.

zenithlist(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

Strange how they prohibit me from driving my marginally polluted ex-car and they allow antiques cars, planes and motorcycles that pollute many thousand times more than my ex-car.  

   From: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep(at)yahoo.com>

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 5:27:53 PM

Subject: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue

--> Zenith-List message posted by: ROBERT SCEPPA <rjscep(at)yahoo.com (rjscep(at)yahoo.com)>

 	  Quote: 	
		   Well guys, who love fly, guess what? the wonderful EPA has implimented

 New  Pollution Limits caused by cars, trucks and big plants. I do think

 they have in mind any gasoline combustable engines, which means the 

 homebuilt, antiques and classic planes not to mention the Antique autos

 and all the gambit you can think of. Welcome to Nazi Germany or socialism

 Food for thought> Do not  archive..  

--- On Fri, 4/17/09, dredmoody(at)cox.net (dredmoody(at)cox.net) <dredmoody(at)cox.net (dredmoody(at)cox.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: dredmoody(at)cox.net (dredmoody(at)cox.net) <dredmoody(at)cox.net (dredmoody(at)cox.net)>

 Subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)

 Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 7:08 PM

 --> Zenith-List message posted by:

 <dredmoody(at)cox.net (dredmoody(at)cox.net)>

 Well guys and gals, I'm sorry to have to tell you that the

 ZBAGers have screwed my pooch for the time being.  My

 airworthiness inspection was scheduled for 2PM this

 afternoon.  At the urging of the NTSB, the FAA has

 decided not to issue any more airworthiness certificates on

 601XLs until this mess is sorted out. Realistic estimates of

 delay would range from a couple of months to never. I cannot

 express how angry and frustrated I am at having busybody

 types save me from their imaginary demon against my will. My

 inspector called this morning with the news that his

 superiors told him to call off the inspection indefinitely.

 I know that I will be accused of sticking my head in the

 sand, but my counter-accusation is that some who have their

 heads stuck up their butts are sticking their noses in my

 business. (How's that for a mixed metaphor?) 

 Now here is the insanity of the situation... if the

 inspection had been done yesterday  or the day before, my

 plane would be legal to fly. That same plane today is in

 some beaurocratic limbo that may prohibit its flight for

 many months. Go ahead and try to convince me that this would

 have happened anyway if the ZBAGers had simply minded their

 own business. I truly don't mind that their instincts move

 them to investigate and explore options and mods on their

 own planes... that is well within their rights. What I

 object to is the fact that while they carry on this pissing

 contest, all our shoes are getting wet. I know, I know... I

 am being saved from certain death in this tradgically flawed

 airframe... got all that. Thanks just the same, I'm not that

 impressed. Or grateful for that matter. 

 Sorry for the rant but I am a responsible, self reliant

 sort of person who 

 resents being nannied to death.  

 Ed Moody II 

 N4568G 

 601XL / Jabiru 3300 (very expensive go-cart right now) 

 Email Forum -

 FAQ,

    - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 List Contribution Web Site -

               -Matt

 Dralle, List Admin.

bsp;       ;                     &nb=================

          [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

Time to invoke the nazi rule:



"The nazi rule is simple. In any debate, argument, or other two or more

sided discussion, the party(and all others with an associated opinion) that

first brings up Nazis is instantly the loser of said discussion, argument,

whatever. This is a simple principle that applies to all people in all

places."



http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nazi%20rule



Silly season has broken out one again on the Zenith list, further diluting

the value of the list. Sigh.



-- Craig



--

grs-pms(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:18 pm Post subject: ZBAGers to the rescue

"National Socialism" was to socialism as "Peoples Democracy" is to 

democracy.  Not even close in either case



George



Do not archive!

---

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