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Chelton SV-10
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

If he gave you a specific dollar, your number may be better than mine.

What he told me, word for word, was "A little over $26,000".   It

would seem to me that $26,900 is more like "A little under $27,000".

But I didn't get a specific dollar amount like you.  One thing

that builders will definitely want to put their thought into is

do they want to build a harness or buy?  IMHO, I'd rather build

one, except for the screen interconnects...having done just that

in the past I can't see it being good for my personal experience

any other way.  But, I'm good with a crimper and soldering iron.

For some builders they may really want/need that prebuilt harness

if they are to be successful.  The harnesses aren't hard to make,

just tedious.

Tim



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Bob Newman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Tim,   I had a long discussion with Josh at Direct 2 and I'm almost

 certain he said the price is going to be $26,900.   

 

 Bob

 

>>> Tim(at)MyRV10.com 3/24/2006 8:44:46 AM >>>

 

 

 It's going to be right around $26,000.

 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

 

 

 Jesse Saint wrote:

> Anyone know the price for the whole shebang?

>

>  

>

> Jesse Saint

>

> I-TEC, Inc.

>

> jesse(at)itecusa.org <mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org>

>

> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>

>

>  

>

> I'm in Ecuador right now and should be back in the country by the end

 of 

> May.  You may call me at 352-505-1899 and leave a message that I can

 

> check from down here.  Any I-TEC questions can be directed to the

 I-TEC 

> office at 352-465-4545.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Indran 

> Chelvanayagam

> *Sent:* Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:14 AM

> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com 

> *Subject:* Chelton SV-10

>

>  

>

> Anyone seen the info on Direct to Avionics website about the "new" 

> Chelton SV-10? It appears to be a dual screen setup, with a wiring 

> harness that claims to be complete - ie strobes, autopilot servoes, 

> trim, pitot heat etc. This sounds like a better harness than Van's

 basic 

> offering.

>

>  

>

> http://www.d2av.com/pdfs/SV-10.pdf 

>

>  

>

> Indran Chelvanayagam

>

> 40228

>

> Finish Kit arrived yesterday - the beginning of the end?

>

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

I agree with Tim; the only challenging thing is the interconnect harness. 

The upside is that you get to make it your length for your arrangement of 

the screens. The rest is pretty straight forward; but get a dsub crimping 

tool from Stein or Affordable Panels. Be advise that the high density dsub 

crimper required for interconnect and J1 and J3 plugs is special and has to 

be borrowed from an avionics shop or in my case a local A&P college where I 

attended.



Also be advised to put in some extra shielded wire to the rear for 

changes/other avionics. In my case I lucked out; I put three shielded 

triplets to the rear platform and two power wires even though the Crossbow 

AHRS required only two shielded pair. With the change to the Pinpoint AHRS I 

will not have to run any additional wiring to the rear of the aircraft. One 

other thought , if you wire yourself standardize on about three unshielded 

Milspec  (2,8,14,20) wiring sizes and Milspec shielded triplets (22) or 

quadruplets for the digital lines.



do not archive

---

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

 Yep, same price they give me.  Really annoying when they try to make something look like one price and it really isn't.  Just call it 26,900 and be done with it rather than looking like you are trying to pull something.  Personally I would much rather see them drop the price $2000 and skip the harness or at least add it as an option instead of part of the kit. Now if they would just fix the PDF so it can be printed and I can show it to the CFO.

 

 

 Michael Sausen

 RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

 Do Not Archive

 

 

 --

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

I did contact them yesterday to see why they told me one thing

but apparently meant another.  I was kind of irritated that I'd

look stupid for passing on something in that regards.  I found out

though that they hadn't set the price yet at the time I heard it,

which was only a couple days ago.  I think they were waiting for

some final pricing info to come back from a supplier (maybe the

harness or something) so they were hoping for just over $26, but

ended up being a little higher.  So it was an understandable mistake.



Considering that they sell units without harnesses that aren't

made for the RV-10, you should consider calling them directly

and asking them how much the price would be if you cut the

harness out of it, and then just to get the other scenario out of

the way, ask them how much if you get just the interconnect harness,

which is the only one I'd get anyway.  It might not be exactly

the same price reduction from the package as if you were adding

the harness to a non-RV-10 system, but I'd think you would get

a fair price reduction.  I've found them pretty good to work

with.



I don't know what you mean about the .pdf (I didn't try to print it)

but they did fix that phone number pronto when I got on them

yesterday as well.  They're actually pretty nice guys there, so

if you have complaints make sure you pass them on to them.  Customer

feedback is valuable, and it helps build good relationships when

they acknowledge issues....and from a customer standpoint, you're

helping by being part of the solution.



Tim

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

[quote]  Yep, same price they give me.  Really annoying when they try to make 

 something look like one price and it really isn't.  Just call it 26,900 

 and be done with it rather than looking like you are trying to pull 

 something.  Personally I would much rather see them drop the price $2000 

 and skip the harness or at least add it as an option instead of part of 

 the kit. Now if they would just fix the PDF so it can be printed and I 

 can show it to the CFO.

 

 

 Michael Sausen

 RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

 Do Not Archive

 

 

 --

n8vim(at)arrl.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

The PDF is a SINGLE page 8.5" wide by 44" long.  I can't find that paper 

anywhere! 



They just forgot to split it into 4 pages; Unless you have the full 

blown version of Acrobat (not the reader) you can't get it to print nicely.



-Jim 40384



Tim Olson wrote:



[quote] 



 I did contact them yesterday to see why they told me one thing

 but apparently meant another.  I was kind of irritated that I'd

 look stupid for passing on something in that regards.  I found out

 though that they hadn't set the price yet at the time I heard it,

 which was only a couple days ago.  I think they were waiting for

 some final pricing info to come back from a supplier (maybe the

 harness or something) so they were hoping for just over $26, but

 ended up being a little higher.  So it was an understandable mistake.



 Considering that they sell units without harnesses that aren't

 made for the RV-10, you should consider calling them directly

 and asking them how much the price would be if you cut the

 harness out of it, and then just to get the other scenario out of

 the way, ask them how much if you get just the interconnect harness,

 which is the only one I'd get anyway.  It might not be exactly

 the same price reduction from the package as if you were adding

 the harness to a non-RV-10 system, but I'd think you would get

 a fair price reduction.  I've found them pretty good to work

 with.



 I don't know what you mean about the .pdf (I didn't try to print it)

 but they did fix that phone number pronto when I got on them

 yesterday as well.  They're actually pretty nice guys there, so

 if you have complaints make sure you pass them on to them.  Customer

 feedback is valuable, and it helps build good relationships when

 they acknowledge issues....and from a customer standpoint, you're

 helping by being part of the solution.



 Tim

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

 RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:



>  Yep, same price they give me.  Really annoying when they try to make 

> something look like one price and it really isn't.  Just call it 

> 26,900 and be done with it rather than looking like you are trying to 

> pull something.  Personally I would much rather see them drop the 

> price $2000 and skip the harness or at least add it as an option 

> instead of part of the kit. Now if they would just fix the PDF so it 

> can be printed and I can show it to the CFO.

> Michael Sausen

> RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

> Do Not Archive

> --

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

I do have the full  blown version, still can't get it to print.   I might mess with it and  see if I can put in the breaks.  Hmm, I wonder if I can get a discount for  fixing it commensurate with what my company bills me out at.   I did mention it to Josh and he said he didn't know how to fix it and didn't seem too concerned.

 

 Michael

 Do not archive

 

 --

johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

Here is a poor man’s edit for the CFO of the Chelton Paper towel roll on the SV-10. Safety and Appeal should stand the acid test.  Price is another, I would press for Tim’s cable solution.  Delete it and make it an add for the solder and crimp impaired.  

   

John $00.02  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:07 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Chelton SV-10  

  

   

 Yep, same price they give me.  Really annoying when they try to make something look like one price and it really isn't.  Just call it 26,900 and be done with it rather than looking like you are trying to pull something.  Personally I would much rather see them drop the price $2000 and skip the harness or at least add it as an option instead of part of the kit. Now if they would just fix the PDF so it can be printed and I can show it to the CFO.

 

 

 Michael Sausen

 RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

 Do Not Archive

 

 

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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

  Thanks John, I already re did the PDF and sent  it to Josh to replace his.   I agree on the harness deal and I'm betting  there will be several others that feel that way.  I don't see it as a big  selling point and more of a detraction for the extra couple grand.  As long  as they are willing to work with the people that don't want it it's no big  deal.

  

 Michael

 Do not archive



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W.  Cox

Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 11:10 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Chelton  SV-10

 

  

Here is a poor man’s  edit for the CFO of the Chelton Paper towel roll on the SV-10. Safety and Appeal  should stand the acid test.  Price is another, I would press for Tim’s  cable solution.  Delete it and make it an add for the solder and crimp  impaired. 

  

John  $00.02 

     

 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael  Sausen)

Sent: Saturday, March  25, 2006 5:07 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Chelton  SV-10

 

  

 Yep, same  price they give me.  Really annoying when they try to make something look  like one price and it really isn't.  Just call it 26,900 and be done with  it rather than looking like you are trying to pull something.  Personally I  would much rather see them drop the price $2000 and skip the harness or at least  add it as an option instead of part of the kit. Now if they would just fix the  PDF so it can be printed and I can show it to the CFO.

Michael  Sausen

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

Do Not  Archive

--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

One thing you do want is the connector kit. Before  I convinced them that they needed to supply the sockets and high density dsubs I  looked at various supply houses and never found the sockets that were  required.  

 [quote]   ---

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

Again though, I do think the interconnect harnesses are worth purchasing

if they were available.  There's a lot of wires in them and the 

manufactured ones are very nice.  It's the long run ones and the

Big J1/J3's that would be nice to build.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

[quote]   Thanks John, I already re did the PDF and sent it to Josh to replace 

 his.   I agree on the harness deal and I'm betting there will be 

 several others that feel that way.  I don't see it as a big selling 

 point and more of a detraction for the extra couple grand.  As long as 

 they are willing to work with the people that don't want it it's no big 

 deal.

  

 Michael

 Do not archive

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John W. Cox

 *Sent:* Saturday, March 25, 2006 11:10 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* RE: Chelton SV-10

 

 Here is a poor man’s edit for the CFO of the Chelton Paper towel roll on 

 the SV-10. Safety and Appeal should stand the acid test.  Price is 

 another, I would press for Tim’s cable solution.  Delete it and make it 

 an add for the solder and crimp impaired.

 

  

 

 John $00.02

 

  

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder 

 (Michael Sausen)

 *Sent:* Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:07 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* RE: Chelton SV-10

 

  

 

  Yep, same price they give me.  Really annoying when they try to make 

 something look like one price and it really isn't.  Just call it 26,900 

 and be done with it rather than looking like you are trying to pull 

 something.  Personally I would much rather see them drop the price $2000 

 and skip the harness or at least add it as an option instead of part of 

 the kit. Now if they would just fix the PDF so it can be printed and I 

 can show it to the CFO.

 

 

 Michael Sausen

 RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

 Do Not Archive

 

 

 --

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

I bought the HD D-Sub's from Digikey in both the 62-pin and the other,

and got the pins from stein.   I agree, you'll want them to at

least supply a connector kit unless you are willing to track them

down yourself.

That said, I have a bunch of extra D-Sub connectors and a pile of

round amp plastic connectors (was going to use them in the wing roots

but didn't), so if anyone gets in a pinch, I'd let you help deplete

my supply a bit.

Tim



David McNeill wrote:

[quote] One thing you do want is the connector kit. Before I convinced them that 

 they needed to supply the sockets and high density dsubs I looked at 

 various supply houses and never found the sockets that were required.  

 

     ---

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: Chelton SV-10

We  keep a bunch of them around just for purposes like that.  Both the Chelton,  newer PSE stuff and a lot of Garmin stuff use the high density pins &  sockets, so they are almost a "must have item".  Being smaller than the  regular density pins you'd think they'd be cheaper....but they're not  

  

 Just  an FYI.

  

 Cheers,

 Stein.

  

 do not  archive

 [quote]   --

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: Chelton SV-10

I had asked Josh from direct2 for some details about the wiring harness and this was his reply:



"I can't get into a lot of detail but Pitot heat, Landing lights (1 each

wing), Nav/Strobe and tail lights, elevator / aileron trim to servos and

sticks, Control wheel steering, AP disconnect, TruTrack AP head and roll

/ pitch servos, Remote Mag, Pinpoint GADAHRS, PS engineering audio,

SL-30 Nav/Comm, Power/Ground for Strobe powerpack, door ajar

sensors/annunciator pilot/copilot sides, all Chelton EFIS harnesses and

interconnect, Datalink weather, OAT Probe, etc...



 To give you an idea, if you wanted just the Chelton EFIS harnesses they

run $2,210.00. "



So is this $2,210.00 item the interconnect cable you are speaking of?  Is it really $2k worth of wire and connectors?



Direct 2 may have created more problems for themselves by trying to put together a harness that will make us happy.  We are all building experimental aircraft, and we all make individual choices to build a plane that meets our individual mission.  They may have better off having their harness supplement Vans wiring harness.  Then we can just complain how Vans thinks the RV-10 is a VFR aircraft.



I wish Direct 2 would put some meat into their website.  It is just a bunch of marketing talk.  Give us some technical specs, wiring diagrams, downloadable installation and operating guides.  Hay even something simple dimensions of the unit and a full scale color image of their display. (Yes I know this info is available on Tim's site or I could scale one of their images)  



I am even confused as to what comes with the SV-sport or the SV-10.  Do I still get a crossbow (not) with the Sport and a Pinpoint with the SV-10.  The SV-10 you get a 16 or 12 channel gps (depending on where you look on the pdf) but the Sport has a WAAS enabled GPS (both non certified).  The sport comes with an OAT probe, no mention in the SV-10 pdf.  Then the product page lists a bunch of options for the sport like cable assembly, fuel flow transducer... then says $25,900.00 complete.  Complete with what?  I guess it is complete with what they give you.  Maybe it is like the car adds, nicely equipped for $25,900.



I don't mean to be flaming direct 2.  I am sure they support the experimental builders well (just look what they are doing with the AHRS) and their product blows away anything I could afford in a certified aircraft. I am just frustrated by trying to make a HUGE investment in my airplane's panel without enough information. 



Sorry for the rant.



do not archive



-- 



Larry Rosen

RV-10 #356

http://lrosen.nerv10.com

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: Chelton SV-10

I would like Direct2 to publish the standards they market that they are

building the harnesses to.



John



--

johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: Chelton SV-10

Nicely said Larry, "What say you Josh?"



John Cox



--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: Chelton SV-10

Larry Rosen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I had asked Josh from direct2 for some details about the wiring harness 

 and this was his reply:

 

 "I can't get into a lot of detail but Pitot heat, Landing lights (1 each

 wing), Nav/Strobe and tail lights, elevator / aileron trim to servos and

 sticks, Control wheel steering, AP disconnect, TruTrack AP head and roll

 / pitch servos, Remote Mag, Pinpoint GADAHRS, PS engineering audio,

 SL-30 Nav/Comm, Power/Ground for Strobe powerpack, door ajar

 sensors/annunciator pilot/copilot sides, all Chelton EFIS harnesses and

 interconnect, Datalink weather, OAT Probe, etc...

 

 To give you an idea, if you wanted just the Chelton EFIS harnesses they

 run $2,210.00. "

 

 So is this $2,210.00 item the interconnect cable you are speaking of?  

 Is it really $2k worth of wire and connectors?


	




That's the whole ball of wax.  Man, I didn't expect it to be that

complete.  The interconnects I was referring to were just the

62 pin cables that connect each screen to the next.  Those would

be the toughest to make.  Actually though, if you can get a harness

that is honestly as complete as listed above, it would easily be

worth $2,210.  I can tell you that the wiring phase took me easily

a couple hundred hours.  This harness could potentially save a lot of

time.  I myself really like to "do-it-yourself" as often as I reasonably

can, and allow room for some customization, so I'm not a great

target for the harness.  I am really surprised it's that complete

though...that's pretty cool and takes a lot of planning.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Direct 2 may have created more problems for themselves by trying to put 

 together a harness that will make us happy.  We are all building 

 experimental aircraft, and we all make individual choices to build a 

 plane that meets our individual mission.  They may have better off 

 having their harness supplement Vans wiring harness.  Then we can just 

 complain how Vans thinks the RV-10 is a VFR aircraft.

 


	


Actually, I think the intention was to make a complete supplement to

the Van's harness. As you can tell though, I agree with your viewpoint

on customization.

 	  Quote: 	
		   I wish Direct 2 would put some meat into their website.  It is just a 

 bunch of marketing talk.  Give us some technical specs, wiring diagrams, 

 downloadable installation and operating guides.  Hay even something 

 simple dimensions of the unit and a full scale color image of their 

 display. (Yes I know this info is available on Tim's site or I could 

 scale one of their images) 

 I am even confused as to what comes with the SV-sport or the SV-10.  Do 

 I still get a crossbow (not) with the Sport and a Pinpoint with the 

 SV-10.  The SV-10 you get a 16 or 12 channel gps (depending on where you 

 look on the pdf) but the Sport has a WAAS enabled GPS (both non 

 certified).  The sport comes with an OAT probe, no mention in the SV-10 

 pdf.  Then the product page lists a bunch of options for the sport like 

 cable assembly, fuel flow transducer... then says $25,900.00 complete.  

 Complete with what?  I guess it is complete with what they give you.  

 Maybe it is like the car adds, nicely equipped for $25,900.

 


	




All crossbows (425EX) are being recalled and replaced with pinpoints,

so you would not get a crossbow.  I am sure there will be only one

AHRS going forward, and it will be the same for the "SV-Sport" and

"SV-10".  The whole "SV-10" idea is probably just concocted to

address the huge forming market of RV-10's....have you recognized

lately how many vendors realize the market potential?   I don't

knwo about the GPS channels, but part of the confusion may come from

the promo deal going on....the Free Freeflight GPS option would give it

one of the 2 legal TSO's WAAS GPS receivers integrated into the system,

giving it full power, legally.   You should expect the SV-10 package

to be as complete as the sport.  Remember, the difference is the

addition of the harness, and a different screen logo...not much more.

The OAT probe will probably come with them all.  FWIW, mine came with

the OAT, and Fuel Flow transducer at the time I bought it....nearly

a year ago.   Also, I got a somewhat cheesier OAT probe with my

GRT EIS system bought at the same time.  Depending on what you do

for Engine Instruments, it'll probably come with OAT too.  You'll

likely end up with extra, not short.

 	  Quote: 	
		   I don't mean to be flaming direct 2.  I am sure they support the 

 experimental builders well (just look what they are doing with the AHRS) 

 and their product blows away anything I could afford in a certified 

 aircraft. I am just frustrated by trying to make a HUGE investment in my 

 airplane's panel without enough information.

 Sorry for the rant.

 


	


I wouldn't worry about ranting.  The hardest part is getting the info.

That's where the group can make up for the manufacturer's shortcomings.

There's not a lot of good info out there from most of them.  And from

what I've seen, pretty much every manufacturer exhibits a few common

things..... A) Vaporware,  B) Poor manuals or pre-sales literature,

C) Poor email response.   The best advice I have is, try to deal with

getting your questions answered by vendors by using the phone.  Then,

when you get an answer, share it with the rest of the group so it

it's as painful.  Last year, you'll remember that I posted lots of

stuff on the system.  Not everything ended up exactly as originally

though, but the whole reason I posted it was to clarify those questions

that were nagging people....and I worked hard to get the right

answers.   It's someone elses turn, now that I have it all installed

and flying.  I'll be happy to help guide people through the install

portion though.



Good luck,

Tim





 	  Quote: 	
		   do not archive

Mani Ravee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 7
Location: Indianapolis

Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: Chelton SV-10

Well said, Tim. For people like me, and I am sure there are many, who have

severe constraints with regards to time, this is a wonderful thing. I do not

have the time to build a harness of this magnitude, and in fact was hoping

by the time I get to that point there would be offerings such as this. And,

in aviation dollar value, for an almost complete harness such as this, it is

quite reasonably priced. Maybe there will be competition which will even

drive the price down or offer better value/options/customization in the

future. Still, we need specs and details.

Mani Ravee 



--

_________________
Mani Ravee
#40339
KUMP, Indianapolis

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