Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Engine purchase considerations

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Engine purchase considerations

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Dsyvert(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

Gang,

  

     My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple  weeks, so I'm starting to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special  and Lycoming's announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to  purchase the engine and prop.  

     

                     Vans (bundled)    Vans

                     Sun-N-Fun         After  5/15 

  

     Engine        $36,150            $39,550

     Prop                6,835               6,835  (two  blade blended)

     Shipping                                    500 (assume $500)

     Other?                                       ??

        Total         $42,985            $ 46,885   Delta ~$4,000

  

     

     I do not want high compression engine, so no value  added by some other shops.

  

     The three things I've heard others comment  on about Lycoming shops such as Barrett and AeroSport are:

         1)  Longer  warranty

         2)  Better customer  service

         3)  More attention to  balancing, etc.

  

  

     I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe  I should consider it. My thoughts on overhauled are:

         1)  The price savings  maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a certified), so with the Van's  discounts it does not seem like it would be worth it. If I was saving $15,000  then it would be a different matter.

         2)  Re-sale vale for  the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few thousand dollars, that may reduce  the resale value more.

         3)  Have not brought  up with the better half, but I'm sure she would say new rather than used (even  if zero timed)

  

     I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I  looking for some comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else  thinking the same / different?

  

 Thanks

 Dave Syvertson

 40625

 Finishing Kit Ordered

  

     

 Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!

  [quote][b]

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

Other considerations:

You are stuck with Lycoming choice of accessories, e.g. Slick mags,

Skytech starter, Precision RSA injection, stock induction through oil

sump. Barrett can get you cold air induction and your choice of fuel

injection, starter, etc. Perhaps with the savings you can swap for

whatever accessories you want.

You are also stuck with two bladed prop, unless you want to burn your

savings with 3 bladed composite prop from Vans, Hartzell or MT.



On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 5:31 PM,  <Dsyvert(at)aol.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Gang,



     My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm starting

 to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and Lycoming's

 announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to purchase

 the engine and prop.



                     Vans (bundled)    Vans

                     Sun-N-Fun         After 5/15



     Engine        $36,150            $39,550

     Prop               6,835               6,835  (two blade blended)

     Shipping                                   500 (assume $500)

     Other?                                       ??

       Total         $42,985            $ 46,885  Delta ~$4,000

     I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some other

 shops.



     The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops such

 as Barrett and AeroSport are:

         1)  Longer warranty

         2)  Better customer service

         3)  More attention to balancing, etc.

     I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should consider

 it. My thoughts on overhauled are:

         1)  The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a

 certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would be

 worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different matter.

         2)  Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few

 thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.

         3)  Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she would

 say new rather than used (even if zero timed)



     I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some

 comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same /

 different?



 Thanks

 Dave Syvertson

 40625

 Finishing Kit Ordered

 ________________________________

 Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

Bite your tongue on that 150k comment!  J  You have the right idea already though, look at what you want and what you get from each “deal” and make sure you are comparing Apples to Apples.   With Van’s offer you get a great price but it’s a stock crate engine from Lycoming.  If you want something that has tighter tolerances and other goodies like balancing, porting, fuel system upgrade, ignition upgrade, cold air, etc you will have to talk to one of the authorized building outfits.  I went with Barrett for their reputation and personal attention to things.   Great people, great engine, and I wouldn’t change a thing.  Aerosport has a great reputation but I know one builder that had some “issues” with a rebuilt from them.  They ultimately took care of it by getting them to go with a new X-540 but gave Aerosport them full credit.  I also rather give my business to small businesses in the US, especially in this economy, but that’s just my preference.    

   

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dsyvert(at)aol.com

 Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:31 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Engine purchase considerations  

  

  

     

Gang,  

    

   

    

    My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm starting to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and Lycoming's announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to purchase the engine and prop.    

    

      

    

                    Vans (bundled)    Vans  

    

                    Sun-N-Fun         After 5/15   

    

   

    

    Engine        $36,150            $39,550  

    

    Prop               6,835               6,835  (two blade blended)  

    

    Shipping                                   500 (assume $500)  

    

    Other?                                       ??  

    

      Total         $42,985            $ 46,885  Delta ~$4,000  

    

   

    

      

    

    I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some other shops.  

    

   

    

    The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops such as Barrett and AeroSport are:  

    

        1)  Longer warranty  

    

        2)  Better customer service  

    

        3)  More attention to balancing, etc.  

    

   

    

   

    

    I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should consider it. My thoughts on overhauled are:  

    

        1)  The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would be worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different matter.  

    

        2)  Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.  

    

        3)  Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she would say new rather than used (even if zero timed)  

    

   

    

    I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same / different?  

    

   

    

Thanks  

    

Dave Syvertson  

    

40625  

    

Finishing Kit Ordered  

    

   

    

      

    

       

  

Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9

      [quote][b]

rv(at)thelefflers.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

Dave,  

   

I’m just a few months behind you in the build and have similar questions floating through my head.  I’ve also got the added complexity of finding employment before I can order an engine. That still doesn’t prevent me from being well prepared when the time comes.  

   

I believe going with a new engine is probably the best value, especially when you consider resale.  Most of the folks that went with a rebuild ended up spending 80-90% of new and had a slew of headaches and/or issues that wouldn’t have happened with a new engine.  

   

Clearly the Van’s OEM engine is the least expensive way to get a new engine.  

   

I think there is also value in getting an engine from Barrett, AeroSport, Mattituck, or Lycoming Thunderbolt.  I don’t question the value these folks add.  These other shops can also run your engine on their test stands longer.  I know one shop that has given out their personal cell phone numbers.  You can’t beat that for customer service.   Jeff Schans has stated that Lycoming tech reps will answer any questions that come to them, even on OEM engines.  However, I have no firsthand knowledge of this at the moment.  

   

My situation is that the longer I’m unemployed, the less I’ll have in my budget for an engine and may have to go with the low cost solution as oppose the best value solution (I’m leaning towards BPE).   I’m clearly not in a situation to take advantage of this deal at the moment.  I’m hoping that there will be something similar at OSH, although it will most likely cost more.   

   

The other variable you haven’t mentioned is getting a certified engine from Van’s.  That would cut your phase I time down to 25 hours if you also got a certified prop combination.  Although I don’t think that’s worth the extra expense.    

   

bob  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dsyvert(at)aol.com

 Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:31 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Engine purchase considerations  

  

  

     

Gang,  

    

   

    

    My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm starting to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and Lycoming's announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to purchase the engine and prop.    

    

      

    

                    Vans (bundled)    Vans  

    

                    Sun-N-Fun         After 5/15   

    

   

    

    Engine        $36,150            $39,550  

    

    Prop               6,835               6,835  (two blade blended)  

    

    Shipping                                   500 (assume $500)  

    

    Other?                                       ??  

    

      Total         $42,985            $ 46,885  Delta ~$4,000  

    

   

    

      

    

    I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some other shops.  

    

   

    

    The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops such as Barrett and AeroSport are:  

    

        1)  Longer warranty  

    

        2)  Better customer service  

    

        3)  More attention to balancing, etc.  

    

   

    

   

    

    I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should consider it. My thoughts on overhauled are:  

    

        1)  The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would be worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different matter.  

    

        2)  Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.  

    

        3)  Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she would say new rather than used (even if zero timed)  

    

   

    

    I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same / different?  

    

   

    

Thanks  

    

Dave Syvertson  

    

40625  

    

Finishing Kit Ordered  

    

   

    

      

    

       

  

Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9

      [quote][b]

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

Randy Debauw went with a reconditioned Prop and a rebuilt engine.  He retained his Vans "One Original Engine and One Original Prop" for a day down the road.  As prices go through the roof, prudence grabs many builder's attention.  Tornado season is about to provide a fresh crop of engines to have rebuilt.  

   

After flying Transcontinental to SNF, I am more convinced than ever that Barrett's dyno attention and Cold Air induction are features of value for me.  The mating of a Forsling exhaust is icing on the cake.  I do not know of other rebuilders that have offered the improved exhaust system to couple with the induction improvements. Time should show a whole stable of satisfied Barrett customers.  I know that the Aerosport crowd is just as dedicated that their decision was right for their requirements and their budget.  Mine are a bit higher and the pain is going to be muffled by the pleasure of believing the RV-10 was the right choice.  Time has shown the features of the AFS product line helps dampen some of the purchases.  

   

John  

600  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Leffler

 Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 6:14 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Engine purchase considerations  

  

  

   

Dave,  

   

I’m just a few months behind you in the build and have similar questions floating through my head.  I’ve also got the added complexity of finding employment before I can order an engine. That still doesn’t prevent me from being well prepared when the time comes.  

   

I believe going with a new engine is probably the best value, especially when you consider resale.  Most of the folks that went with a rebuild ended up spending 80-90% of new and had a slew of headaches and/or issues that wouldn’t have happened with a new engine.  

   

Clearly the Van’s OEM engine is the least expensive way to get a new engine.  

   

I think there is also value in getting an engine from Barrett, AeroSport, Mattituck, or Lycoming Thunderbolt.  I don’t question the value these folks add.  These other shops can also run your engine on their test stands longer.  I know one shop that has given out their personal cell phone numbers.  You can’t beat that for customer service.   Jeff Schans has stated that Lycoming tech reps will answer any questions that come to them, even on OEM engines.  However, I have no firsthand knowledge of this at the moment.  

   

My situation is that the longer I’m unemployed, the less I’ll have in my budget for an engine and may have to go with the low cost solution as oppose the best value solution (I’m leaning towards BPE).   I’m clearly not in a situation to take advantage of this deal at the moment.  I’m hoping that there will be something similar at OSH, although it will most likely cost more.   

   

The other variable you haven’t mentioned is getting a certified engine from Van’s.  That would cut your phase I time down to 25 hours if you also got a certified prop combination.  Although I don’t think that’s worth the extra expense.    

   

bob  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dsyvert(at)aol.com

 Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:31 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Engine purchase considerations  

  

  

     

Gang,  

    

   

    

    My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm starting to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and Lycoming's announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to purchase the engine and prop.    

    

      

    

                    Vans (bundled)    Vans  

    

                    Sun-N-Fun         After 5/15   

    

   

    

    Engine        $36,150            $39,550  

    

    Prop               6,835               6,835  (two blade blended)  

    

    Shipping                                   500 (assume $500)  

    

    Other?                                       ??  

    

      Total         $42,985            $ 46,885  Delta ~$4,000  

    

   

    

      

    

    I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some other shops.  

    

   

    

    The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops such as Barrett and AeroSport are:  

    

        1)  Longer warranty  

    

        2)  Better customer service  

    

        3)  More attention to balancing, etc.  

    

   

    

   

    

    I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should consider it. My thoughts on overhauled are:  

    

        1)  The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would be worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different matter.  

    

        2)  Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.  

    

        3)  Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she would say new rather than used (even if zero timed)  

    

   

    

    I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same / different?  

    

   

    

Thanks  

    

Dave Syvertson  

    

40625  

    

Finishing Kit Ordered  

    

   

    

      

    

         

  

  

Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!  

  [quote]   http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution    [/b][/b][/b][/b][b]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[b][/b][b]http://forums.matronics.com[b][/b]http://www.matronics.com/contribution [b]

davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

There are alternatives to buying new.  I purchased my 2001  IO-540 V4A5 from Wentworth for $13,500.  461 total hours since new and only a little over 100 hours since factory serviced for the crankshaft AD.  That included new bearings, rings, ect.  The case inspection was under $450 including shipping.  The crank, rods, and crank gear inspection with the flange straightening was $950 with shipping.  The gasket/seal set and a new set of rod bearings  is going to run me about $500.  I just freshened up the cylinders and valves.  I will reuse the main bearings,,,,they have only 100 hours on them.  Bottom line is my engine will be practically new for about a $16,000 investment with the accessories.  Thats less than half of Vans price.  There are deals out there for builders on a budget such as myself that are willing to go this route.  Granted I would have preferred to write a check to vans for a brand new set-up, but my bank account would not allow that.      



---

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

Dave,  

            I have to second John’s comments on the BPE/Cold Induction/Forsling combination. My power plant is awesome. The BPE people were fantastic to work with. I also have an 0-360 by Aerosport what has run flawlessly. Like Michael I like keeping the $ in the US if one can and with the exchange rate (at the time I made my purchase) made the BPE less expensive than the Aerosport when considering custom paint & cold induction. I never really took a hard look at the few other well regarded builders but I do remember that in my configuration (wanting a premium Cold Induction unit) BPE was at or below all the other builders at the time. One comforting option BPE provided was extra bench time to break in the engine. While I did pay for that time it gave me peace of mind knowing that the engine was exercised more than most by professionals. I can’t say enough good things about BPE and their customer service. They even personally delivered my engine as we were on one of their employees routes. Cost for hand delivery $0.00.  

            As stated before make sure you are comparing Fuji apples to Fuji apples.  

   

http://www.painttheweb.com/rv-10/engine.htm  

   

Robin  

   

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dsyvert(at)aol.com

 Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 5:31 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Engine purchase considerations  

  

  

     

Gang,  

    

   

    

    My finishing kit should be arriving in a couple weeks, so I'm starting to think abut the engine. With Van's Sun-N-Fun special and Lycoming's announced price increase, it seems like now might be the time to purchase the engine and prop.    

    

      

    

                    Vans (bundled)    Vans  

    

                    Sun-N-Fun         After 5/15   

    

   

    

    Engine        $36,150            $39,550  

    

    Prop               6,835               6,835  (two blade blended)  

    

    Shipping                                   500 (assume $500)  

    

    Other?                                       ??  

    

      Total         $42,985            $ 46,885  Delta ~$4,000  

    

   

    

      

    

    I do not want high compression engine, so no value added by some other shops.  

    

   

    

    The three things I've heard others comment on about Lycoming shops such as Barrett and AeroSport are:  

    

        1)  Longer warranty  

    

        2)  Better customer service  

    

        3)  More attention to balancing, etc.  

    

   

    

   

    

    I'm not considering an overhauled engine, but maybe I should consider it. My thoughts on overhauled are:  

    

        1)  The price savings maybe not be large (I'm thinking 10-25% of a certified), so with the Van's discounts it does not seem like it would be worth it. If I was saving $15,000 then it would be a different matter.  

    

        2)  Re-sale vale for the cost of an RV-10 ~$150k, why save a few thousand dollars, that may reduce the resale value more.  

    

        3)  Have not brought up with the better half, but I'm sure she would say new rather than used (even if zero timed)  

    

   

    

    I'm not looking for a yes do it or don't do it. I looking for some comments, considerations and thoughts. Is anyone else thinking the same / different?  

    

   

    

Thanks  

    

Dave Syvertson  

    

40625  

    

Finishing Kit Ordered  

    

   

    

      

    

       

  

Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and Desktops!  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9  

No virus found in this incoming message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 04/29/09 18:03:00  

      [quote][b]

pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

I did somewhat similar Dave,  

   

I bought an O-540 AD5 from an Aztec, with 60 hours SMOH.  I had planned to buy a run out core and overhaul it myself, but this engine had everything done that I would have done – crankshaft and camshaft overhauled by Aircraft Specialties, crankcase overhauled by Divco, new Millenium cylinders and pistons, new Slick mags.  All logs intact.  Total price, $13,000.  The deals are there, you’ve just got to look for them.  My goal is to build a good solid IFR capable RV-10 for under $100,000.  

   

Jack  Phillips  

#40610  

Raleigh, NC  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidsoutpost(at)comcast.net

 Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:48 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Engine purchase considerations  

  

     

There are alternatives to buying new.  I purchased my 2001  IO-540 V4A5 from Wentworth for $13,500.  461 total hours since new and only a little over 100 hours since factory serviced for the crankshaft AD.  That included new bearings, rings, ect.  The case inspection was under $450 including shipping.  The crank, rods, and crank gear inspection with the flange straightening was $950 with shipping.  The gasket/seal set and a new set of rod bearings  is going to run me about $500.  I just freshened up the cylinders and valves.  I will reuse the main bearings,,,,they have only 100 hours on them.  Bottom line is my engine will be practically new for about a $16,000 investment with the accessories.  Thats less than half of Vans price.  There are deals out there for builders on a budget such as myself that are willing to go this route.  Granted I would have preferred to write a check to vans for a brand new set-up, but my bank account would not allow that.       



 ---

Dick Sipp

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

Another of the five authorized Lycoming kit engine  builders is G & N Aircraft, Griffith, IN. www.gnaircraft.com

 They will custom build and also dyno test the  finished product.

  

 I have had two engines built there and am a  satisfied customer.  Good folks.

  

 Dick Sipp

 RV10 N110DV

  

  

 [quote]   ---

daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

I just ordered XIO-540 and 2 blade Hartzell from Van's.  I wanted a  new engine just because I like new things with full warranty and no  baggage.  No unknowns in the equation.  I talked to a guy who flies a  Pitts with the same stock engine and he said it performs great.  I decided  on the Hartzell 2 blade prop for simplicity and easier maintenance and better  top speed as well as less cost.  I have heard that cylinder problems may  occur in engines which have been ported and polished.  I know there  are many opinions on this, but it helped in my rationalization.

  

          "One topic  that often comes up when talking about cylinders is "flow matching" or "porting  and polishing". We were part of this          movement years ago, and after monitoring the trends and test data gathered by  third parties we have stopped this process. The              results yielded a slight power/performance  increase, however it also yielded a dramatic reduction in the cylinder life due  to stress         cracks which were introduced,  unavoidably, in the porting and polishing process. My goal is to get the engine  the last to TBO             without  hassle, and flow matching was something that inhibited the goal with minimal  benefit."

    _________________

    Kind  Regards,



    Eric Barker

    Western  Skyways

    http://www.westernskyways.com 

  

 Engine shop engines have their advantages, but I just couldn't justify the  extra cost for my mission.

 Good luck.

  

 Dave Leikam

RV-10 #40496

N89DA (Reserved)

Muskego,  WI

 [quote]   ---

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Engine purchase considerations

I went with an XIO-540 from Barrett. I chose them primarily for their reputation, but after going down there to watch the build up and run in of my engine I am even more impressed. Allen Barrett is absolutely meticulous when assembling an engine. He may be one of the few people more obsessive than myself.



Even if you do not want any of the high performance goodies, there are 2 things you get from Barrett  that clinched it for me:



1. They balance rotating parts to 1/10th the limits of Lycoming i.e. if Lyc balances a part to 10 grams, they balance to 1 gram.



2. The XIO comes with roller tappets. See the May Aviation Consumer for their take on this.



As a bonus, if you are nice Allen might take you out for some of the best BBQ ribs ever. Rhonda is more into raw fish.



Jim Berry

40482

N15JB

nukeflyboy

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Engine purchase considerations

Bob said

"Most of the folks that went with a rebuild ended up spending 80-90% of new and had a slew of headaches and/or issues that wouldnâ€™t have happened with a new engine. "



I have to challenge you one this one.  There is a very strong rebuild market out there and they wouldn't be in business if your statement was close to correct.  Most of the certified aircraft go for rebuilds at TBO.  The other posts indicate that you can get an engine for less than 50% of a new one.  The worst oil leak I saw on an engine was a brand new out-of-the-box Lyc.  They say that 1 quart leak every 5 hours is "within limits".



Resale considerations are only for those that plan on selling and truly factor cost/benefit into the equation.  After all, a used airplane is a used airplane.  Would the actual sale price be $20,000 higher if you installed a new engine in an airplane that now has 500 hours?  Will you get $250 more because you installed an Andair fuel valve or $500 more because you installed a throttle quadrant or $3000 more because of the leather seats?  I don't think so.  IMHO the best strategy strictly for resale profit is straight plans built, a rebuilt engine and prop, second hand good avionics, local upholstery and a home paint job.  But who really wants to do just this?  In the end you should spend what you can afford and be able to live with decisions you made and not second guess yourself.  Go for the BPE engine if that is what you want.  Or not.

_________________
Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying

tomflysalot

Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 27

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

Guys & Gals,



I (I'm a builder) have an IO-540 (100 hrs since overhaul and new crank).

It has 270 HP and all the accessories.  It had a propstrike and was

removed from a Lancair Legacy that bellied in (the owner  now wants a

turbine).  It will have been fully inspected by The New Firewall Forward,

it will be re-certified, will have a 4 year warranty on the cam &

lifters, and will be run on the dyno for 2 hours.  Since the rings

weren't removed, no break-in will be required.



It can be had for less than $30K.



Tom Lawson

970-420-1798  

____________________________________________________________

Click to learn about options trading and get the latest information.

http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTIzQZQ4eLwbklvZg1bs7ciP7folMwvwcpd5oKyqLKdegXKMtIOJvK/

Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: Engine purchase considerations

Okay.  I've resisted, but it's the end of the day - so what the heck . . . I think this post is getting a little off course, so I'm going to give my own two cents, and that may be all it's worth 



The fact of the matter is that you can find an engine for a wide variety of prices.  If you are one of the individuals that happens upon a good mid-time engine that is in good shape, that's great.  Most of the engines that are available from a company like Wentworth are coming from a damaged plane.  Make no mistake, they are a salvage dealer.  Some are okay, some are not.  You take your chances with an engine like this, and that is your decision as the builder.  Kudos to those that get a good one!



But, buying a core (getting harder to do) and overhaul costs vary significantly depending on the quality of the engine builder, if they use service limit parts, if they install overhauled cylinders and/or reject parts (like crankshafts people!!), if they have the tools, testing equipment, overhaul data and a significant number of other variables.



 	  Quote: 	
		  From our shop, an engine overhauled to factory new limits isn't much less than a new engine.  Everyone has their own needs, budget and performance alike.  We have folks that have factory engines drop shipped to us on a regular basis for testing, balancing and blue-printing, high performance mods, and you do find some "interesting" things from time-to-time.


	


Two quick side notes, I don't believe Lycoming says 1 qt. of oil leakage in 5 hours is acceptable.  I believe they say 1 qt usage in 5 hours is.  Also, someone made the statement about the adverse affects of porting/flow matching - you can over port cylinders which will result in negative affects in terms of reliability and performance.  One pilot I know whose engine was built by another shop recently told me he's losing compressions after about 5 hours of run time on his engine.  This may be a result of over porting.



Everybody have a great night . . . flame on!



Rhonda Barrett-Bewley

Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.



--

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum