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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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 Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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Hi all,
Posted this question also over on the Kolb list but thought I'd ask here as well since this is the Rotax list.
I'm curious for the 912 gurus, is it ok for the integrated alternater on the 912 series to have no load on it? I just discovered last night that my reg/rect is long since burnt out. At least for the last 3 or 4 operating hours anyway. finally smelled a rat after yesterday's flight that the battery took a bunch of charge where some several flights before it was still most of the way charged after the same electrics were used. My voltage would always run low when I had the electrics on so didn't notice it on the voltmeter either.
I checked the stator resistance with my ohmmeter according to the heavy maint. manual and that looks correct. Also ran er up with the meter hooked to the two generator leads and got a good 15 volts AC at high idle, on up to 25 and more as I revved it up. So the stator appears to be undamaged.
Can't find anything in the manuals about any adverse affects of operating the alternator with no load, which is what the case has been for a bit now. Anyone know? I assume it's ok since it's just a coil of wire with no current flow due to the open circuit.
Ordering new R/R on Monday...
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:08 pm Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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lucien a écrit :
| Quote: | Can't find anything in the manuals about any adverse affects of operating the alternator with no load, which is what the case has been for a bit now. Anyone know? I assume it's ok since it's just a coil of wire with no current flow due to the open circuit.
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Lucien,
You're right.
No problem at all running the alternator with no load.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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Hi Lucien,
Sounds like you did your homework and did a few checks. Looks like your good to go and just toss another Reg/Rec in and away you go. Everything sounds ok. Depending on how some people set up their electrical system you could damage things (i.e. instruments, ect...) in an instance like this if you took too many short cuts. Do you have a volt meter and/or ammeter in your plane? You should and this most likely would have warned you right up front if the Reg/Rec failed and went on a high charge.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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| Roger Lee wrote: | Hi Lucien,
Sounds like you did your homework and did a few checks. Looks like your good to go and just toss another Reg/Rec in and away you go. Everything sounds ok. Depending on how some people set up their electrical system you could damage things (i.e. instruments, ect...) in an instance like this if you took too many short cuts. Do you have a volt meter and/or ammeter in your plane? You should and this most likely would have warned you right up front if the Reg/Rec failed and went on a high charge. |
Yeah the plane has an EIS in it, with a voltmeter. It's on another page than the one I monitor. Once the battery starts discharging some when I have all my electrics on, the voltage goes down into the 11's and 12's anyway, so when I checked it the last couple times in flight it looked normal.
I check the battery with my charger from time to time and noticed it was more discharged than normal the last few flights. Just didn't register till last night that I might not have had any charge....
I was concerned if the lack of load might have hurt the stator, but it doesn't look like it. The R/R I don't care about but that stator would be an expensive nightmare.
I probably should put in an outboard volt/ammeter so I can monitor this better....
LS
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Titan II SS |
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icrashrc
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 2:14 am Post subject: Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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I just saw a similar problem in a 912 powered Alegro. The charging system seemed to have problems keeping the voltage up at anything less than cruise power. Finally the charging system quit working. After the regulator was replaced all was much better, even the low voltage at low rpm issue. I wouldn't be surprised if your low voltage problems went away as well. The Alegro has 2 glass panels, electric fuel pump, landing lights, strobes, transponder, gps, etc, etc, etc. and can maintain reasonable voltage levels... now.
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Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 6:29 am Post subject: Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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| icrashrc wrote: | | I just saw a similar problem in a 912 powered Alegro. The charging system seemed to have problems keeping the voltage up at anything less than cruise power. Finally the charging system quit working. After the regulator was replaced all was much better, even the low voltage at low rpm issue. I wouldn't be surprised if your low voltage problems went away as well. The Alegro has 2 glass panels, electric fuel pump, landing lights, strobes, transponder, gps, etc, etc, etc. and can maintain reasonable voltage levels... now. |
In my case, it appeared some solder had dribbled into the spade connector on one of the battery leads (the one going to B+ on the R/R) so it never correctly connected to the R/R. I figure it finally just came off inside the connector creating an open circuit and blowing the regulator.
BTW, is there a better quality R/R we can use instead of the Ducati one? For 170 bucks a pop, they shouldn't blow so easily and often.....
LS
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Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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lucien a écrit :
| Quote: | BTW, is there a better quality R/R we can use instead of the Ducati one? For 170 bucks a pop, they shouldn't blow so easily and often.....
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Have you considered the Schicke GR6 ?
http://contrails.free.fr/elec_ducati_en.php
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 11:46 am Post subject: Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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Hi Gilles,
Er, are these available in the US? I couldn't find any source for it here. Looks like a nice regulator tho...
LS
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hgmckay
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 397
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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Lucien:
My only comment about this is you can place in the Rotax circuitry a small
red light (mounted on the panel) that will alert you if the regulator is not
charging the battery (i.e. bad regulator). In fact, this light is shown on
the simplified wiring diagram in the Rotax 912 Installation Manual on page
46 of 66. If that red light comes on you are operating off of the remaining
charge in the battery, and not charging it. Guys, if I am incorrect in my
understanding of this please let me know. In other words if you are flying
along and this light comes on, the battery is not being charged by the
engine and you should land.
Hugh
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K Dilks
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 108
Location: UK
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pasj66
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden (ESGI)
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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Hi all,
If the 22000 mF capacitor is broken the R/R can be burnt due to too much AC on the 12 V. (fig 52 pos 25 in the installation manual)
Best regards
Patrik
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pasj66
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden (ESGI)
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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Correction on capacitor size: 22 mF...
Regards
Patrik
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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The size stated in the installation manual is 22 thousand uF (microfarads)
(image attached). This is a fairly large electrolytic capacitor, probably
about an inch or so in diameter and 2 to 3 inches long.
"- a capacitor (Fig. 67 Pos. (25)) of at least 22 000 uF / 25 V is necessary
to protect the correct functioning of regulator and to flatten voltage. The
regulator is not designed to store any electrical charge. If for any reason
the battery or bus system is disconnected from the regulator while the
engine is running (i.e. the master switch is shut off) the capacitor will
safely absorb and dissipate the electrical charge produced by the generator.
Otherwise the regulator would be damaged."
-- Craig
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: Re: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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| K Dilks wrote: | Its ok to run the alternator with no load but to run the regulator with no load is bad news for it.....but I think you have just found that out. It does not blow immediately but after some time.
Kev :  |
Actually the R lead was still connected, looking over the plug again. I think the thing just plain burnt out. Not too surprising tho, as I flew the plane early one with a bad batt, had a shorted cell so was always drawing a charge, that plus electrics. I figure it was just more than it could handle.
Stiil you'd think it would have its own protection mechanism against an open circuit for 170 bucks - my case would have been at the plug so a capacitor to earth wouldn't have helped me.......
LS
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peteohms
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:05 pm Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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Patrik,
I think you were right the first time. 22,000mF.
Pete
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Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove |
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peteohms
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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I put a capacitor the size of a beer can in mine. It's 57,000mF. But I had
it in my junk box.
Pete
Hell Paso
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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That should tell you something about solder and airplanes... If it isn't
inside a box/case don't use it!
Noel
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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The Honda Gold Wing should have a dirt big and heavy duty R/R ...
connections should be the same.
Noel
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malannx(at)bigpond.com
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:33 am Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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John Deere make a nifty little 20 amp permanent magnet alternator and likewise a regulator that should be inter changeable with the Ducati one. Should have JD reliability.
Part numbers are AM877557 for the alternator ($160), and AM101406 for the regulator ($67).
Good article on the above: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/dynamo.html
Regards, Malcolm
[quote][b]
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: 912ULS integrated alternator question |
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57kmF you must be a ham!
Noel
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