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TW-TD-50 speeds...???

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Zjopa

Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 23
Location: Pacific Northwest

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: TW-TD-50 speeds...???

So..



What are good target speeds in k/ph for final turn (or base)

Final, Over the fence, and over the threshold???



What do you guys like to hold.



The reason I ask is that i seem to boing and bounce if I do the book 170 approach speed.



Or maybe it's a technique thing... 

Any pointers graciously accepted.



Hopalong Zjiopa!

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_________________
"Well, boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a horse trader's mule, the radio is gone and we're leaking fuel and if we was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this thing... "

- Henry Paulson, US Treasury Secretary

nigel(at)yakdisplay.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: TW-TD-50 speeds...???

For '52 speeds are:



Base to final turn 180-200

Reduce to 170 on final for flaps

Approach 150 all the way for normal or reduce over threshold to 130  

for short field



Nigel



On 13 May 2009, at 08:03, "Zjopa" <rtthornton(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 So..



 What are good target speeds in k/ph for final turn (or base)

 Final, Over the fence, and over the threshold???



 What do you guys like to hold.



 The reason I ask is that i seem to boing and bounce if I do the book  

 170 approach speed.



 Or maybe it's a technique thing...

 Any pointers graciously accepted.



 Hopalong Zjiopa! 



 --------

 &quot;Well, boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us  

 than a horse trader's mule, the radio is gone and we're leaking fuel  

 and if we was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this  

 thing... &quot;



 - Henry Paulson, US Treasury Secretary





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 43831#243831

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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:52 am Post subject: TW-TD-50 speeds...???

First, let clarify what you are flying. A YAK 50, a YAK-52 TW? If you are

flying a 50, than all landings are no flaps since she does not have them.

Assuming you are flying a YAK-50 the following is how I fly my approaches

and landings.

On downwind - 200 kph or < for gear. 

At the Perch - 150 -160 kph Prop (at) 70% and (for me) generally idle on MP

()use as needed for glide slope adjustment.

Base turn - use pitch and slip to control A/S on base and final. Power as

needed but shooting for holding 150 KPH. Generally takes 10 to 13 degrees of

alpha to hold that A/S. Slips make for a steeper descent with better runway

visibility out the side glass.

Final- slow to 130 kph for 3 point touch down at 110-120 (110 kph - stall

speed gear down configuration). Use slips to maintain runway heading (along

with seeing the runway) and lose altitude without increasing A/S. 

Final for Wheel landing- 140-150 over the threshold trying to slow to max

140 for Touchdown. Either speed makes for a long roll out vs 3 point

landing. You are trying to fly her on to the deck in a level attitude.

Pinning her with forward push on the stick means timing the arrival is

everything. 

Watch the attitude that a F4-U Corsair flies on base turn and final. Granted

he has flaps and the 50 does not. 

The 50 is a floater in ground effect. You just have to hold her off about

1-2 feet off the runway until she gets down to 110 kph and quits flying. If

you are doing a 3 point you will be holding about 13 degrees of alpha! You

are only seeing the world through the angle screen on the left and the

right. I tend to look left more than right since I can snap shot look at the

AS indicator while watching my runway position in the flare (if you can call

flying down the glide slope at 13 deg alpha to touchdown a flare). Guess the

flare started at the base turn because you are using it and the slip to

control your descent rate/ airspeed. Drop the nose on a 50 and watch you're

A/S increase by 20 KPH in a heartbeat.

That is my technique for the landing in a 50. If you are talking about a 52

TW then it is another bucket of worms that I do not have experience with.

If you 3 point her (the 50) with the same site picture that you have sitting

in her on the ramp at engine start while timing your touchdown to arrive at

the runway at 110 kph to 115 kph (splitting hairs) you will not bounce. With

the 50, you have to finesse her onto the ground and fly her to the chokes. 

Summary:

Downwind: <200 kph gear

Perch:    160-150 kph

Base:     150 Kph

Final:    Two Point 140-150 kph (short final) Touchdown ~ 130-140 KPH.

Final:    Three Point 130 Kph (short final) slowing to 110 Kph for

Touchdown. The final slowing is flown in 	    ground effect at 13

degrees alpha (for me that is).

You'll find as you do this more and more it becomes a thing of feel. 

Viperdoc  



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Zjopa

Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 23
Location: Pacific Northwest

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:21 am Post subject: Re: TW-TD-50 speeds...???

Awesome info Doc.. Thanks.

To clarify I'm flying a 52TD which has a steeper deck angle than the TW. I think it's about the same as the 50 but I'm in the front seat.. so theres a "Bit" more visibility.

I'm looking forward to finding a nice little deserted ex-B52 base with no-one around to practice my 3-pointers. Gotta re-calibrate my AOA and try some approaches with that.

Thanks



Z

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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:40 am Post subject: TW-TD-50 speeds...???

Z,

If I remember correctly your stall speed dirty is around 120-130 kph. So if

it were me, I would hold about 150 down to the flare then slow it to 130

holding her off at a foot or so off the ground. Yes, you do have about a

11-12 degree nose high attitude. When sitting in her look out to the edge of

the runway before take off and try to remember that as you are gliding in

ground effect.

Doc



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wdjester(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: TW-TD-50 speeds...???

Guys:  I have a 52TD.  Doc is about right on the approach speeds.  I  

drop the flaps at 165 to 170.  I then hold 155 or so all the way  

down.  I keep the power in until I reach the runway.  I wheel land  

exclusively maintaining a speed above stall.  This allows better  

rudder authority as I reduce power and allow the air speed to bleed  

off and the tail to ease down.  Keeping a little power in has  

eliminated the bounce in my landings.



Sent from my iPhone



On May 13, 2009, at 9:21 AM, "Zjopa" <rtthornton(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Awesome info Doc.. Thanks.

 To clarify I'm flying a 52TD which has a steeper deck angle than the  

 TW. I think it's about the same as the 50 but I'm in the front  

 seat.. so theres a "Bit" more visibility.

 I'm looking forward to finding a nice little deserted ex-B52 base  

 with no-one around to practice my 3-pointers. Gotta re-calibrate my  

 AOA and try some approaches with that.

 Thanks



 Z



 --------

 &quot;Well, boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us  

 than a horse trader's mule, the radio is gone and we're leaking fuel  

 and if we was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this  

 thing... &quot;



 - Henry Paulson, US Treasury Secretary





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 43871#243871

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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