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mteixeira(at)wmlylesco.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

Is anyone using a Corvair engine or seen one on a Kitfox?  I saw one run

on a test stand yesterday and I am very interested.



Thank you,



Matt K4-1200

Fresno, CA

donpearsall
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

Matt,

I don't have any numbers in front of me, but I think Corvair engines would

be way too big and heavy. Those are opposed 6 cylinders, and not built for

light weight. Add to that lack of parts availability, wide size, and the

fact that they leak a quart of oil an hour. I don't think they make good

airplane engines. 



Don Pearsall

--

aldaniels(at)fmtc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

From what I have found out is that they weigh somewhere between an 

O-200 and and O-235, and make a little better than 100 HP. It will fit 

inside the large cowl on a 5,6,7 series plane. It is an interesting 

option. They are getting some flight hours and it appears they have 

promise. With the cost of Rotax and others getting out of reason it is 

worth considering. Remember thought that anything other than factory 

supported engines will cause you problems in insurance and will really 

hurt resale.



They have a lot of information on their web site     www.flycorvair.com



Matt Teixeira wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Is anyone using a Corvair engine or seen one on a Kitfox?  I saw one run

on a test stand yesterday and I am very interested.



Thank you,



Matt K4-1200

Fresno, CA

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

There is a KitFox-6 with a corvair engine being built

in KY by a Barry Bannon (sp).  He had the engine

running last I heard, but was a long way from flying

yet.  I don't have further info, but he should show up

on the Corvair list.



Kurt S.



--- Matt Teixeira <mteixeira(at)wmlylesco.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Is anyone using a Corvair engine or seen one on a

 Kitfox?  I saw one run

 on a test stand yesterday and I am very interested.

 

 Thank you,

 

 Matt K4-1200

 Fresno, CA

nebchmp(at)wcc.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

I'll soon be able to give more on this subject to those who are 

interested in the Corvair Fox combination. Hopefully before the end of 

next month. I'm not sure of the "total" weight yet, but feel positive it 

will be near the 0200.  Parts are readily available from two parts 

houses that specialize only in Corvair parts.  One is on the East Coast 

and one on the West Coast.   Hear is a good place to start  looking  if 

you are interested in all that has been done to perfect the Corvair 

engine.     http://www.flycorvair.com/ <http://www.flycorvair.com/>

http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.cgi?category=home  East Coast Parts

http://www.corvairunderground.com/  

<http://www.corvairunderground.com/%20%20West%20Coast%20parts>

West Coast Parts.  

There are several more interesting sites you can find, or I can send 

them to anyone who is interested.

I guess you probably should contact me off list.  I'm not affiliated in 

any way with any product pertaining to Corvair engines or otherwise.

   

   Don Pearsall wrote:-->



 	  Quote: 	
		  Matt,

I don't have any numbers in front of me, but I think Corvair engines would

be way too big and heavy. Those are opposed 6 cylinders, and not built for

light weight. Add to that lack of parts availability, wide size, and the

fact that they leak a quart of oil an hour. I don't think they make good

airplane engines. 



Don Pearsall

kr2(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

Don I have to disagree with you on the corvair engines,I have been to william wynnes corvair college here in florida and was so impressed with what he and his staff have done with the corvair motor in comparison to a certified engine..there is no comparison.1500hr TBO time,lowrpm cruise,and a no power plant failure yet,plus $2500 to do a complete rebuild and aircraft conversion by william wynnes specs.I recommend looking at william wynnes site and attending one of his colleges if anyone is serious about the corvair engine,I feel that this is a very suitable aircraft engine with an excellent record of performance.

 I also have a kitfox 4 model powered with a VW engine,but if and when I have to change engines I would go with a corvair engine way before I would use a 912 or 914 rotax.



 Sincerely Mark Thomson

 N61AC

--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

I recall talking to Frank Miller about the Corvair for the Kitfox IV, 

and he told me that it was way too heavy. Granted Wynne has done a nice 

job of making it into an aviation engine, but not for the IV.

  I seem to recall that I might have looked up applications for the 

Corvair engine on Wynne's site and that the Kitfox IV was not on the 

list, but I might be wrong in this case.



Lynn

On Thursday, March 23, 2006, at 07:28  AM, mark thomson wrote:



[quote] 



 Don I have to disagree with you on the corvair engines,I have been to 

 william wynnes corvair college here in florida and was so impressed 

 with what he and his staff have done with the corvair motor in 

 comparison to a certified engine..there is no comparison.1500hr TBO 

 time,lowrpm cruise,and a no power plant failure yet,plus $2500 to do a 

 complete rebuild and aircraft conversion by william wynnes specs.I 

 recommend looking at william wynnes site and attending one of his 

 colleges if anyone is serious about the corvair engine,I feel that 

 this is a very suitable aircraft engine with an excellent record of 

 performance.

  I also have a kitfox 4 model powered with a VW engine,but if and when 

 I have to change engines I would go with a corvair engine way before I 

 would use a 912 or 914 rotax.



  Sincerely Mark Thomson

  N61AC

 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

n79rt(at)kilocharlie.us
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

I recall talking to Frank Miller about the Corvair for the Kitfox IV, 

and he told me that it was way too heavy. Granted Wynne has done a nice 

job of making it into an aviation engine, but not for the IV.

  I seem to recall that I might have looked up applications for the 

Corvair engine on Wynne's site and that the Kitfox IV was not on the 

list, but I might be wrong in this case.



Lynn

On Thursday, March 23, 2006, at 07:28  AM, mark thomson wrote:



<snip>

Someone stated it already, but the Vair is in the O-200 weight

range...I've never heard of an O-200 on a IV... would probably be fine

on a 5-7 though.  



Jeremy

donpearsall
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:00 am Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

Thanks for the info, Mark.

I am not against using a Corvair engine at all. I like to see alternative

engines being used as that means builders are being innovative. But, putting

a heavy engine in a KF has its major disadvantages. I used to build KR-2s

and know of builders putting Corvairs in those, so it can't be too expensive

or difficult. 



As everyone here knows, anytime you deviate from the designed specs of the

kit, you invite problems. One change means 100 other changes need to be

made. And in the end, you end up with a heavy engine that puts out about the

same HP as a Rotax 912. But that being said, it would be cool to see the

Corvair in a KF.



Don Pearsall

--

Clem Nichols

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Munfordville, Ky

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

One comment to anyone considering a Corvair engine in a Model IV 1200.  My 

plane came equipped with a Subaru EA 81 engine.  The installed weight of 

that engine is in the neighborhood of 230 pounds if memory serves me 

correctly, or almost 100 pounds heavier than a Rotax 912S.  The plane's 

empty weight is 820 pounds, so with my 180 pounds and 26 gallons of fuel I'm 

only about 50 pounds below gross weight.  What I have, therefore, is a 

single place plane with an extra seat which is good for charts, etc., but 

little else.  According to Mr. Wynn's info on his website the Corvair is in 

the neighborhood of 230 pounds also which would lead to a similar situation. 

For a model V or up the Corvair engine sounds like an interesting choice, 

but for a Model IV, in my humble opinion the plane's gross weight makes it a 

poor choice.



Clem Nichols

Do Not Archive

---

kr2(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

Thanks guys for your input on the Corvair engine,I would agree that the engine is a heavier engine than the 912 and you are going to have to sacrifice alot  of your useful load,but the difference in cost is so significate that one must look at the corvair as an alternative engine......to bad we cant get a better gross weight on our kitfoxes.

Maybe a good airboat engine?

 I am in need of a set of plans and or the owners manual to the kf4,would anyone possibly have a set they would copy for me ,or might know of where I could buy a set.



 Thanks for any help......Mark



--

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

firewall forward weights tend to be a little hazy, but....

Clem has the weight his finished Fox and my Classic IV with every faring, speed mod known to man weighs about 150# with a 912UL.  Thats the missing passenger in his scenario.



As has been offerred frequently on the list, the alternate engines may have a place on the later models but for the IV and earlier the sacrafice might well be too great.



John Kerr



-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols(at)scrtc.com> 



[quote] 

 

 One comment to anyone considering a Corvair engine in a Model IV 1200. My 

 plane came equipped with a Subaru EA 81 engine. The installed weight of 

 that engine is in the neighborhood of 230 pounds if memory serves me 

 correctly, or almost 100 pounds heavier than a Rotax 912S. The plane's 

 empty weight is 820 pounds, so with my 180 pounds and 26 gallons of fuel I'm 

 only about 50 pounds below gross weight. What I have, therefore, is a 

 single place plane with an extra seat which is good for charts, etc., but 

 little else. According to Mr. Wynn's info on his website the Corvair is in 

 the neighborhood of 230 pounds also which would lead to a similar situation. 

 For a model V or up the Corvair engine sounds like an interesting choice, 

 but for a Model IV, in my humble opinion the plane's gross weight makes it a 

 poor choice. 

 

 Clem Nichols 

 Do Not Archive 

 ---

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

Sorry, that was 150# less than Clem's.



John



-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net 



[quote] 

 

 firewall forward weights tend to be a little hazy, but.... 

 Clem has the weight his finished Fox and my Classic IV with every faring, speed 

 mod known to man weighs about 150# with a 912UL. Thats the missing passenger in 

 his scenario. 

 

 As has been offerred frequently on the list, the alternate engines may have a 

 place on the later models but for the IV and earlier the sacrafice might well be 

 too great. 

 

 John Kerr 

 

 -------------- Original message -------------- 

 From: "Clem Nichols" 

 

 > 

 > 

 > One comment to anyone considering a Corvair engine in a Model IV 1200. My 

 > plane came equipped with a Subaru EA 81 engine. The installed weight of 

 > that engine is in the neighborhood of 230 pounds if memory serves me 

 > correctly, or almost 100 pounds heavier than a Rotax 912S. The plane's 

 > empty weight is 820 pounds, so with my 180 pounds and 26 gallons of fuel I'm 

 > only about 50 pounds below gross weight. What I have, therefore, is a 

 > single place plane with an extra seat which is good for charts, etc., but 

 > little else. According to Mr. Wynn's info on his website the Corvair is in 

 > the neighborhood of 230 pounds also which would lead to a similar situation. 

 > For a model V or up the Corvair engine sounds like an interesting choice, 

 > but for a Model IV, in my humble opinion the plane's gross weight makes it a 

 > poor choice. 

 > 

 > Clem Nichols 

 > Do Not Archive 

 > ---

rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

"to bad we cant get a better gross weight on our kitfoxes."



Mark,

The Kitfox Series 7 (and 5 and 6) has a gross weight of 1550 lbs.  This

gives close to 800 lbs useful load if you use the Rotax.   Still plenty if

you use the corvair.



Randy



.           

--

mteixeira(at)wmlylesco.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

Gentlemen:

Thank you for your reply.  It is clear that the Model IV has too light

of a gross weight rating to be a two place cross country aircraft with

the heavier alternative engine choices.  It also appears that the Subaru

engine and the Corvair are in the same weight class and that Model IV's

powered by the Subaru have traded useful load for an alternative engine.

The insurance ramifications are concerns as well.



I now have to consider just how important the useful load is when I fly

95% of the time solo.



Thank you,



Matt K-IV,

Fresno, CA

tleed

Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

I think it's time to stir this thread up again, especially since I'm now shopping for engine options for my newly-acquired Model IV-1200 kit.



My preliminary research has uncovered the following curiosities, which are reflected in the above posts:



The Corvair is approximately the same installed weight as the Subaru EZ-81, but somehow the Corvair is too heavy, while the Subie has been deemed acceptable to a significant number of owner/installers.



The Corvair is 28" wide, while the VW, at 190 lbs. (with all the re-drive and liquid-cooled goodies), is 32" wide. Don't know the width of the Subie.



The Corvair develops its hp at an rpm several hundred rpm lower than the Rotaxes, and by virtue of it's 6-cyl. design, is (probably) significantly smoother and (perhaps) quieter. (Does engine sound and/or decibel level matter at all?)



I only weigh 155 lbs., and I've seen no discussion yet how much the primary pilot's own weight usually plays in engine selection.



Nobody makes a ready-fit cowling package for the VW, because Great Plains' cowling is for a direct-drive motor, which has a 5-inch different centerline, and even Great Plains' Model IV engine mount is for a direct-drive version, so it would have to be modified, too.



I'm told the Corvair can be mounted significantly farther back than the Subie, and by moving the battery behind the pilot and putting a relatively small weight close to the tailwheel, you can resolve a lot of CG problems the extra engine weight might create.



That being said, of course the Corvair is among the heavy kids on the block, requires a scratch-built engine mount, and will necessitate some fiberglass skills up front, but other that that, how bad can it be?



I'm intrigued by the idea of tractor-like torque & hp (a broad, flat, and low power band), all-American economy, reliability, and parts availability, and relatively quiet and smooth operation. I'll give up a little weight for that, I think.



Have I sparked any new thinking here? I'm new at this, so I'm trying to provoke discussion, not proffer authoritative conclusions.



Thomas

_________________
Kitfox Model IV-1200

josandt(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

Thomas, I'm afraid you won't get much of a response about the Corvair because there's almost no one out there using them on the kitfox. Norm, are you out there? Norm claims to have flown his kitfox behind a Corvair. I have a Corvair installed and running but not flying yet. I can tell you this: It's the cheapest option - buy for a couple hundred, completely build for 3 thousand (quality build). The thing runs like a sewing machine, smooth as glass - almost no vibration. Power to spare, low RPM. Bulletproof. I can stand outside my plane (at the driver's door, so to speak) and have a conversation with family members a few yards away. It should make for a Hell of a ride - quiet, dependable, powerful, easy to rebuild yourself with minimal engine skills. Weight and balance becomes more critical. Haven't got into that part yet, still building. If I remember right, Norm claims to be running two batteries in the tail to balance it. "Norm...do you read? ...Come in Norm..." If you haven't got William Wynne's Corvair rebuilding manual, get one and read it. Small investment for a big decision.   



John Sandt KF7 Trigear builder / BRS / Corvair / Ridgecrest, CA

tleed

Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

John, thanks.



I've ordered William Wynne's Corvair manual.



That's what intrigues me: quiet, smooth, powerful, and simple. No re-drive, no turbo. And economical, too! GM did something right with the Corvair.



And yet there are plenty of IV owners who have opted for the Subaru. Who's the salesman responsible for that?



Hurry up and get yours in the air and let the rest of us know how it's going!



Of course, yours is a 7, not a IV... Does that represent a marginal, or insurmountable distinction?



Thomas

_________________
Kitfox Model IV-1200

nebchmp(at)wcc.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

I sent Thomas a personal e-mail saying that it is my oponion that the 

Corvair is not the best option for the IV 1200.  As he says there are 

Subarus in IVs.  I think they are to heavy also but, to each his own its 

expermental aviation. I have a Corvair installed in a S5 1550. I like 

the installiation, I like flying it.  I am having a problem with high 

oil temps. After talking to WW yesterday about this I am hopeful to have 

that solved and get on with the flight testing.  If you care to look at 

my installiation go  here   http://www.sportflight.com/  go to shared 

photos and files, then to engines.  Its the first one listed under the 

title First Flight of my Model IV.  Some how there was a mix up with 

someones elses title and my engine photos.    I'm not much for talking 

about what I do but I'll answer any questions that I have personal 

knowledge about. If I have no knowledge I may be able to direct you to 

someone who has.



Norm Beauchamp

Kitfox S5 1550

Corvair,  Warp Drive , two blade

flying

San Angelo, Tx.



josandt(at)verizon.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thomas, I'm afraid you won't get much of a response about the Corvair because there's almost no one out there using them on the kitfox. Norm, are you out there? Norm claims to have flown his kitfox behind a Corvair. I have a Corvair installed and running but not flying yet. I can tell you this: It's the cheapest option - buy for a couple hundred, completely build for 3 thousand (quality build). The thing runs like a sewing machine, smooth as glass - almost no vibration. Power to spare, low RPM. Bulletproof. I can stand outside my plane (at the driver's door, so to speak) and have a conversation with family members a few yards away. It should make for a Hell of a ride - quiet, dependable, powerful, easy to rebuild yourself with minimal engine skills. Weight and balance becomes more critical. Haven't got into that part yet, still building. If I remember right, Norm claims to be running two batteries in the tail to balance it. "Norm...do you read? ...Come in Norm..." If you hav!

 en't got William Wynne's Corvair rebuilding manual, get one and read it. Small investment for a big decision.   



John Sandt KF7 Trigear builder / BRS / Corvair / Ridgecrest, CA

tleed

Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Blacksburg, VA

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine?

Norm,



I have a question for you: what's the distance from the firewall to the front shoulder or plane of the motor? Or from the firewall to the inside rear wall of the cowl? What I'm looking for is whether a cowl made to clear a Great Plains VW will clear the Corvair front-to-back. Were you able to use a factory Kitfox cowl, or did you have to fabricate from scratch or lengthen someone else's pre-made cowl? If so, whose?



If my info is correct, Great Plains' cowl will clear the Corvair with room to spare on the sides, but I don't know if it will clear length-wise.



Again, I know you have a V and I have a IV, so I'd need to compare the longitudinal firewall-forward dimensions of the two designs, but one thing at a time...unless you know those dimensions, too.



Thomas

_________________
Kitfox Model IV-1200

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