Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Lightweight Aux Battery?

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Lightweight Aux Battery?

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

mhcrowder

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Cary, NC

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:37 am Post subject: Lightweight Aux Battery?

Does anyone have a good alternative lightweight Aux Battery?  I'm looking for something 12V 10Ah capacity for emergency EFI powering.  I've already got a "fat" airplane, so would like to keep the weight down if possible.  Power requirements are calculated (at) 8 amps.  NiMH and LiFePO offer significant weight reduction at an increase in cost.  I haven't found a good way to keep the battery's charged or a  simple fall-over incase of main power failure.



Any Ideas?



Michael

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject: Lightweight Aux Battery?

At 09:37 AM 5/31/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Does anyone have a good alternative lightweight Aux Battery?  I'm 

looking for something 12V 10Ah capacity for emergency EFI 

powering.  I've already got a "fat" airplane, so would like to keep 

the weight down if possible.  Power requirements are calculated (at) 8 

amps.  NiMH and LiFePO offer significant weight reduction at an 

increase in cost.  I haven't found a good way to keep the battery's 

charged or a  simple fall-over incase of main power failure.


	


   What engine are you using . . . and which

   (if any) Z-figure?

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------

mhcrowder

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Cary, NC

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Lightweight Aux Battery?

Bob,



This will be on an existing Jabiru 3300 installation using the Z-20 wiring .



--

Michael Crowder

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: Lightweight Aux Battery?

At 01:26 PM 6/1/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Bob,



This will be on an existing Jabiru 3300 installation using the Z-20 wiring .


	


   Hmmm . . . what are the anticipated loads and

   duration for the aux battery? In other words, how

   does the aux battery fit into your recipe for plan-b

   success?

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

mhcrowder

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Cary, NC

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Lightweight Aux Battery?

 	  sonex293 wrote: 	
		  Power requirements are calculated (at) 8 amps. 	




This would include Fuel Pump, Injectors, and EFI Controller.  I was looking for a one hour run time.



--

Michael

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: Lightweight Aux Battery?

At 06:15 PM 6/2/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

sonex293 wrote:

 > Power requirements are calculated (at) 8 amps.

This would include Fuel Pump, Injectors, and EFI Controller.  I was 

looking for a one hour run time.


	


    How big is your planned main battery and

    what feature of its selection and installation

    suggests that you can't get what you need

    out of the main battery?

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

mhcrowder

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Cary, NC

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Lightweight Aux Battery?

I'm currently flying with a Odyssey PC625 battery, which has a 16Ah capacity.  



I'm also currently flying behind an engine/carb/magneto combo that has no fuel pumps, so even in the event of full electrical/battery failure the engine will keep running.  



By switching to an endurance buss my current draw with the new fuel injection system would be around 14-16 amps,  I don't think the PC625 can provide 16amps for an hour in the case of charging problems.



What do you think?



--

Michael

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: Lightweight Aux Battery?

At 07:57 PM 6/2/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I'm currently flying with a Odyssey PC625 battery, which has a 16Ah 

capacity.



I'm also currently flying behind an engine/carb/magneto combo that 

has no fuel pumps, so even in the event of full electrical/battery 

failure the engine will keep running.



By switching to an endurance buss my current draw with the new fuel 

injection system would be around 14-16 amps,  I don't think the 

PC625 can provide 16amps for an hour in the case of charging problems.



What do you think?


	


    Hmmmm . . . how much STUFF have you shoe-horned into

    this neat little airplane that needs that much snort?

    Your alternator is probably a PM machine so if you've

    got a robust rectifier/regulator, loss of engine

    driven power is rare. But assuming you do need to

    go battery only, what situation do you anticipate

    that you cannot get from where you are to where you

    need to be using the ultimate battery-only comm/nav/

    lighting system . . .



http://aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Vacination_for_Dark_Panel_Syndrom.pdf



    Also, those numbers seem high for a small engine.

    Have you ever seen real energy numbers from somebody

    who has one of these systems flying?



    I hate to see you carry around any more weight than

    is REALLY useful. I've been pondering a li-ion battery/

    automatic charter pack for OBAM aircraft. It will be

    the very lightest of batteries for all services other

    than engine cranking . . . i.e. AUX service. But it's

    weight, volume and price is not zero or even really

    attractive for airplanes like yours. I'd like to explore

    all the plan-A, plan-B options available to you before

    you start adding the $time$, $cost$, $weight$ of an

    additional or larger battery.



    Oh yeah, consider making your existing battery

    BIGGER before adding a second battery. But let's

    talk . . .



    Who sells your power plant package? Let's get some

    real running numbers from them.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: Lightweight Aux Battery?

P.S. What's the driver for switching to the ECFI engine

package? Does fuel efficiency go up so much that the

additional complexity, power requirements and cost look

like an attractive alternative?

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

         ---------------------------------------

Peter Eedy

Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Location: Newcastle, NSW. Australia.

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: Lightweight Aux Battery?

Hi Michael

What sort of upgrade do you have planned for your 3300?  

Enquiring minds, thinking likewise, would like to know?

All the best.



Peter Eedy

Waiex 109 - 50% there.

Newcastle. NSW. Australia.

On Tue,  2 Jun 2009 16:15:52 -0700, "sonex293" <sonex293(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 sonex293 wrote:

> Power requirements are calculated (at) 8 amps.

 

 

 This would include Fuel Pump, Injectors, and EFI Controller.  I was

looking
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   for a one hour run time.

 

 --

 Michael

mhcrowder

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Cary, NC

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Lightweight Aux Battery?

Bob,



I went back and looked at my existing battery, the Odyssey PC625.  From the MFG datasheets the battery can provide 13.6 Amps for one hour.  After recalculating my load with non-essentials turned off, I 'm currently at 5.4 amps and with the addition of the EFI system would bring the current requirements to 13.1 Amps.  So,with my current system I could run for about 1 hour, which was my datapoint.



I guess my main concern was the even of a battery failure and/or PM Alternator failure.  Based on you're comments, it sounds like a vary rare occurrence.



I've been unhappy with the fuel delivery methods of the AeroCarb which I'm currently using and the Bing.  Both can be setup to operate "OK", but nether can setup to operate great across the entire power spectrum.  There is also the reason of just wanting to do it from a technical standpoint.



So it looks like I may not need the complexities of the AUX battery.



--

Michael

mhcrowder

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Cary, NC

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Lightweight Aux Battery?

From the items you quoted, I guess you've guessed I'm looking at EFI.  There is already someone in your neck of the woods that has done this modification and has indicated he is very pleased with the outcome.



--

Michael

 	  Peter Eedy wrote: 	
		  Hi Michael

What sort of upgrade do you have planned for your 3300?  

Enquiring minds, thinking likewise, would like to know?

All the best.

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum