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Making the right stick removable

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z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: Making the right stick removable

On Monday 15 June 2009 11:04, Gig Giacona wrote:

<snip>

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I'm seriously thinking about making the right stick removable.


	


Our thinking is somewhat parallel. I think the right stick is necessary at 

times, but at other times, it is an invitation to problems.



Has someone already done this, or is this new ground to be plowed? 



I toyed with having a stub at the bottom with threads on it, and an upper 

section which would simply screw on. Mind you, that idea isn't thought out 

too well, so it may have some flaws.



=================================================

   You can check on my aircraft construction     

progress at: http://www.mykitlog.com/santaigo

=================================================

               Jim B. Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

           Instrument Rated Pilot

     General Radio Telephone Certificate

     Retired Aerospace Technical Manager

=================================================

====

Juan Vega Jr

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: Making the right stick removable

do it just like in a cub, with a male/ female pipe slid in and a pin holding them.  do a quick disconnect for the PTT.

its been done many times.



Juan



--

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: Making the right stick removable

Jim,

 

 I made both sticks removable.  I wanted to be able to remove that right stick to prevent the accidental push or pull by my passenger.  The other reason was for under-panel access.  Some day, you are going to need to do some work in that cave and with a stick in the way, you are not going to get much done.  I have already had both sticks off for that purpose.  

 

 I cut a piece of 4130 tubing for an inner sleeve.  The top part of the sleeve is through bolted to the upper part of the stick and I fasten the lower part of the stick with quick-release pins. I had to do a little shimming of the joint to completely remove any "slop".

 

 Jay Bannister

 

   

 

   

 

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psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: Making the right stick removable

Hi Jim,



I would stay away from threads for this kind of application and 

consider some sort of steel tube inside the current one, perhaps 

welded in place, and a pin to hold the stick in place for 

use.  Probably a Clevis pin with either a cotter pin or one of those 

spring steel diaper pin thingies.



It is easy to get aircraft steel tubing in exactly the diameter you 

want to make telescoping structures with other aircraft steel tubing.



Good luck,



Paul

At 09:53 AM 6/15/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I toyed with having a stub at the bottom with threads on it, and an upper

section which would simply screw on. Mind you, that idea isn't thought out

too well, so it may have some flaws.

rsteele(at)rjsit.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:51 am Post subject: Making the right stick removable

A friend made a removable right stick in his RV7.  For the wiring he

used a DIN connector that fits nicely inside the tubing so that there is

no wiring running up the outside.  It's a very slick installation (just

like the rest of his plane!).



I agree that an removable right stick is a safety feature.  I get scared

just thinking of my wife being near the controls (and she wouldn't argue

the point).



Ron



------

Mitch Hodges

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Powder Springs, GA

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Making the right stick removable

 	  rsteele(at)rjsit.com wrote: 	
		   I get scared just thinking of my wife being near the controls ------ 	




That's one of the things that attracted me to the Y-controller.



I personally am more scared of leaving my wife (or any other copilot) with no controls should I become incapacitated in flight regardless of the "copilot's" flying knowledge and expertise.  ATC has talked down folks with no experience but with controls.  They've never talked down anyone (regardless of experience) without controls.



By the way, I assume anyone sitting in the right seat with me is a copilot regardless of their knowledge, and I make sure they know how to make a radio call if needed.

_________________
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
Wings Under Perpetual Construction

rsteele(at)rjsit.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Making the right stick removable

I agree.  I'll be doing the center stick also, but mine will be  

straight (single grip).  I've very long legs which interfere with the  

"Y" or dual sticks.

I'd never remove a right hand stick with a passenger that had a hope  

in heck of landing the plane.  Unfortunately, the wife is outside that  

category.

I do hope to teach some radio and nav work at some point.



Ron

DO NOT ARCIVE	



On Jun 15, 2009, at 4:15 PM, Mitch Hodges wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 rsteele(at)rjsit.com wrote:

> I get scared just thinking of my wife being near the controls ------

 That's one of the things that attracted me to the Y-controller.



 I personally am more scared of leaving my wife (or any other  

 copilot) with no controls should I become incapacitated in flight  

 regardless of the "copilot's" flying knowledge and expertise.  ATC  

 has talked down folks with no experience but with controls.  They've  

 never talked down anyone (regardless of experience) without controls.



 By the way, I assume anyone sitting in the right seat with me is a  

 copilot regardless of their knowledge, and I make sure they know how  

 to make a radio call if needed.



 --------

 Mitch Hodges

 N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)

 Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero

 Wings Under Perpetual Construction





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 48310#248310

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:37 am Post subject: Re: Making the right stick removable

The whole leave the stick for an untrained pilot vs remove the right stick when an untrained pilot is in the seat is a matter of personal choice and comes down to a threat assessment.



If the chance of the person in the right seat causing a problem is greater than the chances the guy in the left seat will become incapacitated PLUS the person in the right seat being able land then logically the stick should be removed.



I'm thinking first time passengers with little or no light aircraft experience tend to push it that way.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:44 am Post subject: Making the right stick removable

On Tuesday 16 June 2009 08:37, Gig Giacona wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The whole leave the stick for an untrained pilot vs remove the right stick

 when an untrained pilot is in the seat is a matter of personal choice and

 comes down to a threat assessment.



 If the chance of the person in the right seat causing a problem is greater

 than the chances the guy in the left seat will become incapacitated PLUS

 the person in the right seat being able land then logically the stick

 should be removed.



 I'm thinking first time passengers with little or no light aircraft

 experience tend to push it that way.


	


I'd agree. I suspect the need, or lack thereof, is driven by individual 

situations. I'm not concerned about my wife, who is also a pilot, and usually 

flies in slacks of some sort. I am concerned about modesty issues with other 

female passengers wearing a dress or skirt.



I'm also concerned that with a second stick there is one more exposed thing in 

the cockpit that can get something jammed in it. While using a stub of some 

sort and an upper stick that fits in it doesn't totally eliminate this, it 

should reduce the hazzard some. When I'm solo, I like to fly with my charts, 

snacks, and water bottle, on the right seat.



Hmm. I wonder if I could come up with a box of some sort that fits over the 

stub of the stick, and further reduce the problem. I must think about that 

one.



Thus far, listening to the ideas expressed, I'm leaning towards the "one tube 

inside another" idea, rather than my original screw-on concept. I'm not 

worried about needing to disconnect a mike or control switch mounted on the 

passenger stick, as I don't plan to have one. I don't really have a 

requirement for it, and it's one more set of connections that can get loose 

and require troubleshooting.



But all this reflects my personal tastes and approach to flying. In part, I 

think that's why we build our own airplanes, so we can have them to meet our 

own needs.



By the same logic of personal taste, I never did care for Chris Heinz center 

stick controller. It just doesn't seem to match the way I fly. But I don't 

care for a sidestick controller either. The one time I tried one, it just 

didn't work for me. Some guys love 'em - which is great for them.

-- 

==============================================

   You can check on my aircraft construction     

progress at: http://www.mykitlog.com/santaigo

=================================================

               Jim B. Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

           Instrument Rated Pilot

     General Radio Telephone Certificate

     Retired Aerospace Technical Manager

=================================================



-- 

=============================================

                Do not archive.

=============================================

                Jim B Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

     Retired aerospace technical manager

=============================================

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Making the right stick removable

The Y-Stick was a non-starter for me. If I had it I would have to fly from the right seat if I was anywhere near controlled airspace where I may have to write something down. Because while I can fly with either hand I can't write with my left at all and I really didn't like the idea of having to reach across with my left hand to fly and and write a note at the same time. But that's just me.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: Making the right stick removable

Safer if you don't go flying at all.  This is getting rediculous.

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Making the right stick removable

 	  daveaustin2(at)primus.ca wrote: 	
		  Safer if you don't go flying at all.  This is getting rediculous.

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912 	




I disagree Dave there's nothing ridiculous about it. I plan to have Young Eagles in my 601. Some of them have handicaps where having a stick between their legs could be either impossible or at best unwise. I also have a friend who will fly with me from time to time but only for short flights because of his ample girth and the associated reduction in weight available for gas. I'm not sure the plane would even be controllable with him in the right seat if the stick isn't removable.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

sabrina

Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 170

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Making the right stick removable

Do Not Archive

Last edited by sabrina on Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mitch Hodges

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Powder Springs, GA

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Making the right stick removable

 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		  The Y-Stick was a non-starter for me.... while I can fly with either hand I can't write with my left at all. 	




Just goes to show we all have our needs, one of the reasons I liked it is because I am left handed and it made it easier to exactly what you say you struggle with for me!  



I've given further thought to this, and if I wasn't doing the center stick, I believe I would make mine removable after all, for maintenance purposes and for flight just to have the option where a stick on the right side just isn't worth the risk.  That's what the BRS is for anyway.

_________________
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
Wings Under Perpetual Construction

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: Making the right stick removable

Hi Sabrina,



I think I spoke to someone at Zenith about the elevator horn 

reinforcement and AS-5 rivets.  I was told this change was done to 

meet the ASTM LSA spec.



Paul

XL grounded



At 10:43 AM 6/16/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  It is clear that the XL elevator is experiencing forces beyond which 

it was originally designed, otherwise the elevator horn 

reinforcement and AS5 rivets would not have been specified by Zenith.

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