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response to some questionable recommednations

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Juan Vega Jr

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: response to some questionable recommednations

All;



the following a godd attempt at SWAG.(shit wild ass guess)



MaxNr(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I say:



                                   4



 To blame EVERY in flight break up on pilot error is reprehensible.  

 The general consensus that I picked up on this list is that the  

 ULTIMATE load for this air craft should now be three G's. Even the  

 most ardent supporters (those that vote "1") make frequent remarks  

 such as "He did a 3 G pull up and the wing failed." Following the  

 crowd, I suggest that the new Matronics consensus limitation (3G  

 ultimate) be observed.



 That would make the new normal load = 2 G. That means that the Vn  

 diagram must be redrawn. A new Va would result. Furthermore, tried  

 and true flutter mitigation measures are invalid. FAR 23.629 is  

 junk. If so, is AC 43.13b also? Bernoulli is dead. Consensus rules!   

 What do I know, I'm just a washed up ancient aviator that hangs out  

 with retired aerodynamicists and old AI's? I must follow the herd.




	


THE FACTS;



Manauvering speed and max G load changes with certain variables,  gross weight,  speed, temperature outside, Pressure Altitude

on a standard temp day,  if you fly the plane at full gross,  you will exceed design loads below the max manauavering speeds.   

The standard design model has a given Max G load for a given weight and speed.  Change the variables such as described above will yield a SNAFU situation.

I have looped the plane and done 4 G pulls, provided I had only 10 gallons of gas (60lbs) and only me in the plane(220 lbs).  To do the same with two guys and full fuel would be stupid.  



That is what some of the guys flying the 601 just do not get.   Not even a stunt pilot flying an EXTRA 300 loaded for 10 Gs would do stunts in a fully loaded aircraft, and that is what those planes are desinged for.



So ignore the BullS___t statements.   Fly the plane within the specs,  fly a well maintained plane,  and you will be fine.

DO you fly at 130 mph on a hot day with nasty thermals and convection goin on?  Only the dip shits will. Regardless of the plane flown.



Juan Vega



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zenith601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: response to some questionable recommednations

Actually SWAG is "Scientific Wild Ass Guess"

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net (amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net (amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net)>

 All;

 the following a godd attempt at SWAG.(shit wild ass guess)

 MaxNr(at)aol.com (MaxNr(at)aol.com) wrote:

 > I say:

 >

 >                                   4

 >

 > To blame EVERY in flight break up on pilot error is reprehensible.

 > The general consensus that I picked up on this list is that the

 > ULTIMATE load for this air craft should now be three G's. Even the

 > most ardent supporters (those that vote "1") make frequent remarks

 > such as "He did a 3 G pull up and the wing failed." Following the

 > crowd, I suggest that the new Matronics consensus limitation (3G

 > ultimate) be observed.

 >

 > That would make the new normal load = 2 G. That means that the Vn

 > diagram must be redrawn. A new Va would result. Furthermore, tried

 > and true flutter mitigation measures are invalid. FAR 23.629 is

 > junk. If so, is AC 43.13b also? Bernoulli is dead. Consensus rules!

 > What do I know, I'm just a washed up ancient aviator that hangs out

 > with retired aerodynamicists and old AI's? I must follow the herd.

 >

 THE FACTS;

 Manauvering speed and max G load changes with certain variables,  gross weight,  speed, temperature outside, Pressure Altitude

 on a standard temp day,  if you fly the plane at full gross,  you will exceed design loads below the max manauavering speeds.

 The standard design model has a given Max G load for a given weight and speed.  Change the variables such as described above will yield a SNAFU situation.

 I have looped the plane and done 4 G pulls, provided I had only 10 gallons of gas (60lbs) and only me in the plane(220 lbs).  To do the same with two guys and full fuel would be stupid.

 That is what some of the guys flying the 601 just do not get.   Not even a stunt pilot flying an EXTRA 300 loaded for 10 Gs would do stunts in a fully loaded aircraft, and that is what those planes are desinged for.

 So ignore the BullS___t statements.   Fly the plane within the specs,  fly a well maintained plane,  and you will be fine.

 DO you fly at 130 mph on a hot day with nasty thermals and convection goin on?  Only the dip shits will. Regardless of the plane flown.

 Juan Vega

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Juan Vega Jr

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: response to some questionable recommednations

depends on what part of the country you are from:)

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grs-pms(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: response to some questionable recommednations

Yes, in some parts of the country the two words are sometimes confused.



By the way, at max maneuvering speed, an abrupt maneuver will match, not 

exceed, the design loads.  At lighter weights the maneuvering speed is 

lower.



George



Do not archive





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