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Looking for an engine

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Charles Heathco

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 201

Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: Looking for an engine

Well seems the activituy here has dropped off since all the "wickis" and other alternatives have popped up. During the time I have been on this list I have seen one thing that troubles me some. Seems like every time I ask about a real problem needing input I get maybe 2 replys at best, but if someone puts up a question about a non issuse like the price of gas, the list is cluttered with replys. Does this mean that most of the people on the list are just flyers or wanabys, rather than builders, or like me, folks who do all the mods and repairs on their planes?   That being said, anybody know of a good O-320 for sale? Chas

cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: Looking for an engine

More replies to non-issues than real problems?  Not unexpected.

Mechanical, structural or building problems often have one or two

right/better answers--very digital, 0 or 1.



An issue of 'the price of gas' is not directly a building issue, but it

is certainly plane/pilot issue, hence fair game.  Most of the answers

are, in fact, opinions or thoughts on the matter.  There is no digital

answer, this is an analog issue.  There is value in wide ranging input

to a policy problem like the price of gas, as there should be.  The

input ranges from interesting, to logical, to 'what are they thinking'.

Nonetheless, they all are important to formulation of quality opinions

on an issue, rather than blind allegiance to our preconceived notions

that may have been formed based on limited, or faulty, information.  



I view this forum as an educational tool, not just a builder assist

program, though I'm sure other's hold well-owned opinions to the

contrary. (See, you just had to suffer through another point of view!) 



Chuck Jensen

--

low pass

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Houston

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Looking for an engine

You should check some of the salvage operations.  I would imagine there are still some hurricane/tornado salvage engines still around.



Bryan Jones -8

Houston

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: Looking for an engine

Unless you're real careful, the last place you want to buy an engine is at a

salvage yard. Last time I talked with my insurance contacts the insurance

carriers that he knew of, were requiring the total destruction on the

aircraft that were totaled because of water emersion and lack to treatment

after they were pulled from the flood. The salvage yard had to crush them

with a bulldozer and certify that all parts would never be in the stream of

commerce again. What a waste.



Bruce

www.glasair.org

 



--

low pass

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Houston

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Looking for an engine

 	  Bruce(at)glasair.org wrote: 	
		  Unless you're real careful, the last place you want to buy an engine is at a

salvage yard. -- 	


Well, let me be more specific.  Target those planes bounced around by high winds, or a tornado. Maybe something crushed by a falling hangar.



All I know is that 4 people who I have flown with and who really do own and fly RV's have had tremendous luck with engines from salvage operations.



As with almost every transaction in this life, including homebuilt airplanes, caveat emptor.



Bryan Jones RV-8 builder, owner, operator

Houston

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: Looking for an engine

Yep, crushed by a hangar door, rolled over by winds. The problem is that by

the time the savlage yard gets it the engine has been seperated from the

airframe and you have to take the yards word for the source of the engine.

You're better off bidding on the salvage directly with the insurance

companies. Here's a few links.



http://www.aigaviation.com/salvage/salvage_List.aspx

http://www.ladaviationinc.com/salvage/avaliable_salvage.htm



Bruce

www.glasair.org

 



--

sfarner(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: Looking for an engine

I definitely echo the sentiment of caveat emptor, but there are some

reputable, at least in my experience, salvage yards out there.



I purchased a hurricane-damaged engine from Wentworth Aircraft last

September for my RV-7A with the intention of overauling it. They guaranteed

all of the expensive parts (crank, case, etc) to be within serviceable

condition. I believe this is true for all of the engines they sell unless

they specifically say that a part is bad. Anyway, after dissassembling it

and taking it to a machine shop, the crank was found not to be within

serviceable limits and the case had a seriously worn down main thrust face -

nothing that could be found without dissassembling the engine. After not

being able to find a replacement crankshaft, Wentworth refunded my money,

and even covered the cost of teardown and inspection - something they were

not liable for as their contract states that only the cost of the engine

will be refunded in this case. While not being happy about having to find

another engine, I was very happy with the way Wentworth handled the

situation and would not hesitate to deal with them again on my next project.



So I guess the moral of the story is if you are going to buy a salvage

engine, get a guarantee or warranty on the major parts, and if you are

worried about the source of the engine, ask the salvage yard for the

N-number of the aircraft that the engine came off of and contact the owner.

I was able to contact the owner who verified the information provided by

Wentworth. If they won't give or don't have the N-number, move on.



Scott Farner - former IO-360-A3B6D owner, current IO-390 owner (well in a

week or so)

www.scottfarner.com

RV-7A Wiring



Oh yes, and for completeness, I have no affiliation with Wentworth, just

satisfied with the way they do business.





On 3/28/06, Bruce Gray <Bruce(at)glasair.org> wrote:

[quote]

 



 Yep, crushed by a hangar door, rolled over by winds. The problem is that

 by

 the time the savlage yard gets it the engine has been seperated from the

 airframe and you have to take the yards word for the source of the engine.

 You're better off bidding on the salvage directly with the insurance

 companies. Here's a few links.



 http://www.aigaviation.com/salvage/salvage_List.aspx

 http://www.ladaviationinc.com/salvage/avaliable_salvage.htm



 Bruce

 www.glasair.org

 --

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: Looking for an engine

My experiences with Wentworth have been similar. I bought a yellow tagged 3

inch FD (ADI) from them. Sent it to the manufacturer for inspection and was

told it was junk. I had a tough time but was successful in getting my money

back. I was still out shipping and inspection fees. Not a good experience.



Bruce

www.glasair.org

 



--

c.ennis(at)insightbb.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: Looking for an engine

Let me throw in my 2 cents on salvage engines,,,I have 60 hours flying an 

0320 D3G in an RV-6A. I bought this engine from Wentworth back in 97 or 98. 

It came from a Warrior owned by Embry Riddle in Fla. It had been blown 

around their ramp during one of Fla. many tropical storms. It sat in a 

hanger until I hung and flew it in 2004. It came with log book and 

documentation, carb, starter, mags, fuel pump, ect. everything but a vacumn 

pump...so far it has not burned a drop of oil.

 My point is, there are good engines to be had in the salvage arena, you 

need to ask questions and deal with a known salvage dealer, I would 

recommend Wentworth, but they are by no means the only game in town.

 Charlie Ennis

  RV-6A  N60CE

Do Not Archive

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject: Looking for an engine

Bruce Gray wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Unless you're real careful, the last place you want to buy an engine is at a

salvage yard. Last time I talked with my insurance contacts the insurance

carriers that he knew of, were requiring the total destruction on the

aircraft that were totaled because of water emersion and lack to treatment

after they were pulled from the flood. The salvage yard had to crush them

with a bulldozer and certify that all parts would never be in the stream of

commerce again. What a waste.




	


One of the major underwriters had over a dozen a/c listed on its auction 

site last fall, all saying 'immersed in salt water due to Hurricane 

Katrina'. No mention of any requirement to crush the fruits of your 

winning bid. I certainly wouldn't trust an airframe that had been 

submerged in salt water for several weeks, but I doubt that the 

insurance companies care as long as they have a contract signed by the 

purchaser stating that he's aware of the history of the plane. (I doubt 

you could get them to insure it, though...)



As others will attest, lots of people get excellent engines from salvage 

yards. It obviously carries some risk, but buying a used a/c is almost 

as big a crap shoot, since you have no way of knowing its real history 

unless you are familiar with the plane. Log books don't tell you any 

more about an engine on a flying a/c than they do about a salvage 

engine. The key, for me would be to buy from a reputable yard & get 

everything in writing.



Charlie

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: Looking for an engine

I got the crush requirement from 2 separate yard managers I talked to. The

reason is that once the salt water receded, there was a long time delay

before anyone could get to the submerged aircraft and rinse them with fresh

water. As a result all suffered major salt water corrosion and rust.



Bruce

www.glasair.org

 



--

bo124rs(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:54 am Post subject: Looking for an engine

I've held off posting the specifics on how I am "assembling" my engine but 

since I've got 8 boxes delivered yesterday here goes:

I looked around ebay, bid on one, checked with the various Lyclones, checked 

with the salvage yards, checked with the "basement builders" then found the 

guy I bought from.  I liked the Lyclones but by the time I bought a C/S prop 

I was going to 7-8K over what I wanted to spend.  The salvage yards, 

Wentworth in particular, offered a guarantee on the crank and case.  I 

however would have to tear the engine down then put it back together.  Hum.  

The basement builders route was an experience.  It went all the way from, 

"Nope don't know what the designation is, it was buiilt in Romania......they 

do great work there", "You know this is not certified, you know how much it 

costs to have all those internal parts brought to spec", to "been sitting 

here for 5 years so it should be just as good as it was when I tucked it 

away in the garage".  I decided I would have to disassemble the engines so 

why not start with a disassembled one anyway.  I have built up two engines 

already, so sorry you A & Ps, with a few special tools it "ain't" rocket 

science.  If you can build an RV, it is my opinion you can build an engine 

up.

So..I ended up going with Doug Works in Tulsa 1 918 313 5487.  Doug is a 

concrete contractor who does engines on the side.  He does not build them 

but accumulates the parts you want in any configuration you desire.  I am 

getting from him the total package including prop.  Case is back from the 

shop, crank ended up going to ECI and came back .003, I'll take that, NEW 

Titan ECI cylinders, pistons and works, sump, tubes, remanufactured MA 4 5 

model 10 5193 carb (fits O 360 A!A) , new slick 4370, 4373 mags, harness, 

prop gov., alternator, newer style overhauled prop hub and 7776 blades, cam, 

yellow tagged tappets, gears, rockers,......the works.    I choose to have 

Doug pull together the entire package which is above what his "standard"  

package is so my cost would not be a comparative number, but I am so under 

what I would have spent on a Lyclone but under, with the prop included of 

what I was going to spend on a basement builider.  I will say the standard 

price is set.  Give him a call and at least talk to him  1 918 313 5487.

Doug has been very, very forthright in calling, asking questions, getting 

approval on overhauls and the likes.  He has done what he said he would do 

and more importantly WHEN he said he would do it.  When I get back from SNF, 

I am gong to start an engine assembly page on my website to show........and 

be told what I am doing wrong.......but I think you will be pleasantly 

surprised at what you get, I am beyond mere satisfied with what I have.

Dana Overall

Richmond, KY i39

RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"

O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4

http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html

do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>

Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Looking for an engine

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:17:15 -0600

Bruce Gray wrote:

 >

 >

 >Unless you're real careful, the last place you want to buy an engine is 

at a

 >salvage yard. Last time I talked with my insurance contacts the insurance

 >carriers that he knew of, were requiring the total destruction on the

 >aircraft that were totaled because of water emersion and lack to 

treatment

 >after they were pulled from the flood. The salvage yard had to crush them

 >with a bulldozer and certify that all parts would never be in the stream 

of

 >commerce again. What a waste.

 >

One of the major underwriters had over a dozen a/c listed on its auction

site last fall, all saying 'immersed in salt water due to Hurricane

Katrina'. No mention of any requirement to crush the fruits of your

winning bid. I certainly wouldn't trust an airframe that had been

submerged in salt water for several weeks, but I doubt that the

insurance companies care as long as they have a contract signed by the

purchaser stating that he's aware of the history of the plane. (I doubt

you could get them to insure it, though...)

As others will attest, lots of people get excellent engines from salvage

yards. It obviously carries some risk, but buying a used a/c is almost

as big a crap shoot, since you have no way of knowing its real history

unless you are familiar with the plane. Log books don't tell you any

more about an engine on a flying a/c than they do about a salvage

engine. The key, for me would be to buy from a reputable yard & get

everything in writing.

Charlie

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