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Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Fellow Europaphiles,



I need a recommendation for my sticking throttle problem.  I thought I  

had it fixed, but I flew this morning and it happened again.  Flew  

from Denton (KDTO) to Ironhead (T58) for landing practice.  First  

landing was excellent.  Taxied back for takeoff, applied full throttle  

and started to roll.  RPM only went to 4000.  Aborted the takeoff.   

Taxied back to takeoff, held the brake, worked the throttle and was  

rewarded with 5780 RPM.  Released the brake and took off, flew back to  

KDTO, landed (OK landing, bounce, power, stabilize, land right).  Went  

back to the hanger and pulled the upper cowl.  The port throttle cable  

was hanging up again.  I have posted pics on my build web site.   

Starboard throttle goes to full, port only goes half way.  By working  

the throttle one can get full throttle on both, but that's not right.   

I need a good fix for this problem.  I have heard about teflon liners  

and solid cables.  I'd like some feedback on what folks have found to  

really work and how the installation was done.



Thanks in advance,

Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

Aircraft Flying!

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117

topglock(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Bob,



Solids would do the trick.  I used them when I was researching the 

problems I was having earlier.  However, you might want to research the 

reason for the binding.  Make sure the cable enters the housing straight 

on and exits the same.  Make sure the pivots on the throttle arm are 

free from binding.  No tight bends, anywhere in the run.  Flushing the 

housing and relubricating the whole thing may help.



As for the solids vs braided, I've seen no real difference, other than 

to help with a binding problem.  On a properly run set of cables, the 

originals work fine...



Jeff - Baby Blue



Robert Borger wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Fellow Europaphiles,

 

 I need a recommendation for my sticking throttle problem.  I thought I 

 had it fixed, but I flew this morning and it happened again.  Flew from 

 Denton (KDTO) to Ironhead (T58) for landing practice.  First landing was 

 excellent.  Taxied back for takeoff, applied full throttle and started 

 to roll.  RPM only went to 4000.  Aborted the takeoff.  Taxied back to 

 takeoff, held the brake, worked the throttle and was rewarded with 5780 

 RPM.  Released the brake and took off, flew back to KDTO, landed (OK 

 landing, bounce, power, stabilize, land right).  Went back to the hanger 

 and pulled the upper cowl.  The port throttle cable was hanging up 

 again.  I have posted pics on my build web site.  Starboard throttle 

 goes to full, port only goes half way.  By working the throttle one can 

 get full throttle on both, but that's not right.  I need a good fix for 

 this problem.  I have heard about teflon liners and solid cables.  I'd 

 like some feedback on what folks have found to really work and how the 

 installation was done.

 

 Thanks in advance,

 Bob Borger

 Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

 http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

 Aircraft Flying!

 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

 Corinth, TX  76208

 Home:  940-497-2123

 Cel:  817-992-1117

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:51 am Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Also Bob check your carb springs. I had one once that was a little  

lazy. New spring fixed it. Just a thought.



Jeff R.

A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 186 hours and climbing slowly.

On Jun 15, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Jeff B wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bob,



 Solids would do the trick.  I used them when I was researching the  

 problems I was having earlier.  However, you might want to research  

 the reason for the binding.  Make sure the cable enters the housing  

 straight on and exits the same.  Make sure the pivots on the throttle  

 arm are free from binding.  No tight bends, anywhere in the run.   

 Flushing the housing and relubricating the whole thing may help.



 As for the solids vs braided, I've seen no real difference, other than  

 to help with a binding problem.  On a properly run set of cables, the  

 originals work fine...



 Jeff - Baby Blue



 Robert Borger wrote:

> 

> Fellow Europaphiles,

> I need a recommendation for my sticking throttle problem.  I thought  

> I had it fixed, but I flew this morning and it happened again.  Flew  

> from Denton (KDTO) to Ironhead (T58) for landing practice.  First  

> landing was excellent.  Taxied back for takeoff, applied full  

> throttle and started to roll.  RPM only went to 4000.  Aborted the  

> takeoff.  Taxied back to takeoff, held the brake, worked the throttle  

> and was rewarded with 5780 RPM.  Released the brake and took off,  

> flew back to KDTO, landed (OK landing, bounce, power, stabilize, land  

> right).  Went back to the hanger and pulled the upper cowl.  The port  

> throttle cable was hanging up again.  I have posted pics on my build  

> web site.  Starboard throttle goes to full, port only goes half way.   

> By working the throttle one can get full throttle on both, but that's  

> not right.  I need a good fix for this problem.  I have heard about  

> teflon liners and solid cables.  I'd like some feedback on what folks  

> have found to really work and how the installation was done.

> Thanks in advance,

> Bob Borger

> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

> http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

> Aircraft Flying!

> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

> Corinth, TX  76208

> Home:  940-497-2123

> Cel:  817-992-1117

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

> --

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

I have original braided cables but NO loops.

Manual advised not to cut them but I did and made almost straight cables.

Works perfectly.



Raimo OH-XRT "Tuuli-Ilmatar"



---

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Hi All,

  

 Although the manual suggests not to cut the cables, I did.  I routed them to be as straight as possible and then cut them to lenght.  I haven't ever had a problem with mine hanging up, although I can't definatively say that this is because I shortened them.

   

 Paul

  [quote][b]

Ivor Phillips

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

I did exactly as Paul,

IMHO there was way too much cable for the short run to the carbs,

I have had no problems with the cables sticking so far,

Ivor

---- Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi All,

 

 Although the manual suggests not to cut the cables, I did.  I routed them to

 be as straight as possible and then cut them to lenght.  I haven't ever had

 a problem with mine hanging up, although I can't definatively say that this

 is because I shortened them.

 

 Paul

air.guerner(at)orange.fr
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:19 am Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Bob,

  

 I experienced this sort of problem when I was  flying behind the bloody 914.

 There are several possible causes. Apart from a  binding bowden cable, one possible cause specific to the 914 is the  throttle potentiometer on the left carb. I found that this potentiometer   was adding a lot of friction to the left throttle, preventing the left  carb to fully open and/or delaying the opening. You can check that after  disconnecting both bowden cables from the carb lever and move the levers to  compare right and left side. The fix was to slightly bend the retaining arm  to increase the spring tension on the left side.

 Hope that helps.

  

 Best regards

  

 Remi Guerner

  

 F-PGKL, XS monowheel, 650 hours

  

  

 <<<<<<Starboard throttle goes to full, port only goes  half way.  By working  

the throttle one can get full throttle on  both, but that's not right.   

I need a good fix for this  problem.   >>>>>>>>

    [quote][b]

erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Bob, 

I have been using solid Bowden cable sold by ACS.  I posted a mod several years ago that I am sure can be extracted from the archives.  While I am sure there are a number of folks using the stranded wire setup with success, I wasn't comfortable using a cable in this application.  Having to rely on springs to advance/pull the throttle cable didn't sit well with me.  Solid wire is really suited for push/pull applications.  I don't know if you recall a mishap that occurred many years ago which was attributed to a sticking throttle cable.  I believe it was a standard Europa installation.  Anyway, the pilot decided to execute a go-around and quickly advanced the throttle only to have it kink within the throttle housing; limiting available throttle to little more than idle power.  The subsequent forced landing totaled the plane.  Food for thought. 

Erich Trombley

N28ET Classic Mono 914  



____________________________________________________________ 

[url=_blank]Free information on buying a New Vehicle. Click Here.[/url]

  [quote][b]

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

I too did as Paul and shortened the cables for a smooth route. I also 

replaced the housing with Teflon lined ones from the bike shop. Pretty 

smooth.



Europa XS Mono-Wheel

Inter-cooled Rotax 914

Airmaster Prop

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:38 PM , ivor.phillips(at)ntlworld.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I did exactly as Paul,

 IMHO there was way too much cable for the short run to the carbs,

 I have had no problems with the cables sticking so far,

 Ivor

 ---- Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> Although the manual suggests not to cut the cables, I did.  I routed 

> them to

> be as straight as possible and then cut them to lenght.  I haven't 

> ever had

> a problem with mine hanging up, although I can't definatively say 

> that this

> is because I shortened them.

>

> Paul

g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Shortening the throttle cables is well worth doing.



I used Teflon lined cycle cable for the control valve on my heater.  The

temperature at the lower end (just above the aft end of the oil cooler duct)

was sufficient to melt the Teflon and seize the cable solid.



While I appreciate that the temperature up by the carbs should be lower, I

think you should be careful about using cycle cable in this application.



Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours

Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)

e-mail mods(at)europaclub.org.uk   

   or direct g-iani(at)ntlworld.com

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Erich,



Found your original post in the archive.  This is about what I had planned on doing.  Your post implies the 0.078" Bowden Cable Inner Wire fits in the original cable housing.  Is this correct?  If so, it certainly makes life easier than having to replace the complete original cable set with a complete Bowden Cable/Housing (2nd option).

Thanks,

 Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

Aircraft Flying!

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117



 



On Jun 16, 2009, at 10:18, Erich Trombley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Bob,

I have been using solid Bowden cable sold by ACS.  I posted a mod several years ago that I am sure can be extracted from the archives.  While I am sure there are a number of folks using the stranded wire setup with success, I wasn't comfortable using a cable in this application.  Having to rely on springs to advance/pull the throttle cable didn't sit well with me.  Solid wire is really suited for push/pull applications.  I don't know if you recall a mishap that occurred many years ago which was attributed to a sticking throttle cable.  I believe it was a standard Europa installation.  Anyway, the pilot decided to execute a go-around and quickly advanced the throttle only to have it kink within the throttle housing; limiting available throttle to little more than idle power.  The subsequent forced landing totaled the plane.  Food for thought.

Erich Trombley

N28ET Classic Mono 914 



____________________________________________________________ 

Free information on buying a New Vehicle. Click Here.[url=http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2132/fc/BLSrjnsJ3RXElXxMoxTaCLNW7KzpLr0nskWCp93goC1WUiU4UB5sHggnelK/][/url]

  	  Quote: 	
		  



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rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Hi Ian



Are you sure plastic lining was made out of Teflon?



Other plastics melt a lot lower.



Ron Parigoris

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:37 am Post subject: Re: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Bob,



We followed Erich's mod several years ago.  The .078 cable does not fit in the original housing.  What you purchase from ACS will be a complete cable, solid wire and housing.  You will have to make adapters to connect the housing to the Europa throttle housing and also to the carbs.  We purchased those from Lockwood.



Others have just replaced the stranded wire with piano wire.  We tried that (got wire from McMaster) but were unable to straighten the wire so it would work in the housing.  It comes in a pretty small roll and the wire takes a set.



If you use the ACS cable, it works better if you lube it with graphite.  Ours has over 100 hours and works fine.



Jim & Heather

N241BW

erichdtrombley(at)juno.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:10 am Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Bob, 

For reason I will not go into on this post I did not order the firewall forward kit from Europa.  As such, I can't speak as to what you received in your kit from Europa.  I ordered the solid .078 cable from ACS and mated it with either bicycle shift or brake cable housing of approprate size.  I hope this helps. 

Regards,

Erich 

  

Erich,



Found your original post in the archive.  This is about what I had  

planned on doing.  Your post implies the 0.078" Bowden Cable Inner  

Wire fits in the original cable housing.  Is this correct?  If so, it  

certainly makes life easier than having to replace the complete  

original cable set with a complete Bowden Cable/Housing (2nd option).



Thanks,

Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

Aircraft Flying!

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117

  



____________________________________________________________ 

[url=_blank]Browse online galleries of exterior shutters.[/url]

  [quote][b]

mau11(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix!

Paul McAllister a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi All,

  

 Although the manual suggests not to cut the cables, I did.  I routed 

 them to be as straight as possible and then cut them to lenght.  I 

 haven't ever had a problem with mine hanging up, although I can't 

 definatively say that this is because I shortened them.

  

 Paul

 *

 *

Hi Paul,
	


In the past I have some troubles with cables. When I push the trhottle 

lever one cable make a loop into the box.

I lubricate the cable into his housing, but few time ago the cable start 

again to a loop.



I take the decision to install stainless steel piano wire diameter 1.5mm.



Now it is perfect reliable and no expensive.



-- 



        --|--

--------(*)-------- 

Michel AUVRAY

mau11(at)free.fr

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