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Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair
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Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

To all, 

 I got the scales from my local EAA and did my W & B today. Empty weight seems to high at 820 lbs this is with a Corvair full oil, interior installed, drained all the fuel that the drains would drain but didn't run the engine until dry, it has wing lockers, landing nav and strobe lights, aileron trim, full panel of steam gauges plus GPS.  

The CG computes out OK but still seems heavy on empty weight. What ya think? 

David Coberly  601XL / Corvair  [quote][b]

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:02 am Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Hi Dave,



 First weighing on my XL with full panel, essentially no interior, no fuel, no oil, and Jabiru 3300 was around 715.  I think the Continental or Lycoming adds around 100 pounds, and I guess the Corvair would be similar.



 Paul

 XL grounded



 

 At 09:30 AM 6/20/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]To all, 

 I got the scales from my local EAA and did my W & B today. Empty weight seems to high at 820 lbs this is with a Corvair full oil, interior installed, drained all the fuel that the drains would drain but didn't run the engine until dry, it has wing lockers, landing nav and strobe lights, aileron trim, full panel of steam gauges plus GPS. 

 The CG computes out OK but still seems heavy on empty weight. What ya think? 

 David Coberly  601XL / Corvair 

  	  Quote: 	
		  

[/b] 	
[b]

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

David,

 

 My 601XL with a Corvair engine weighed in at 841 lbs. The weight was roughly equal on all three wheels. I didn't think I had added that much weight either, but I guess the scales don't lie. I honestly don't know where all the extra weight comes from. Beyond "norms", I have a single-axis autopilot, insulated firewall, upholstered side panels and seats, parking brake valves, dual sticks, long range fuel tanks and an instrument access panel,  I don't have wing lockers, aileron trm, wheel fairings, right side brakes and only have a little paint.  I didn't do any "beefing up" of the airframe as I built.  So I guess it is what it is, and I wouldn't know where to reduce weight by any significant amount.

 

 Jay Bannister

 

   

 

   

 

 --

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:15 am Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 12:30:41PM -0400, Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    I got the scales from my local EAA and did my W & B today. Empty weight 

 seems to high at 820 lbs this is with a Corvair full oil, interior installed, 

 drained all the fuel that the drains would drain but didn't run the engine 

 until dry, it has wing lockers, landing nav and strobe lights, aileron trim, 

 full panel of steam gauges plus GPS. 

 The CG computes out OK but still seems heavy on empty weight. What ya think?


	


Don't complain. Mine is 850 pounds empty.



That's supposed to be done with unusable fuel still in the tanks, so you're

probably pretty close (if not a touch low; I'd expect to be able to drain

fuel from the tanks that the engine can't use to run reliably).

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP   http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

On Saturday 20 June 2009 11:57, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Dave,



 First weighing on my XL with full panel, essentially no interior, no

 fuel, no oil, and Jabiru 3300 was around 715.  I think the

 Continental or Lycoming adds around 100 pounds, and I guess the

 Corvair would be similar.


	


My understanding is that the Continental is heavier than either the Rotax or 

the Jabiru. The Lycoming is heavier than the Continental, and the Corvair is 

heavier than that.



You pays your money, you makes your choice, I believe the phrase is.

-- 

==============================================

   You can check on my aircraft construction     

progress at: http://www.mykitlog.com/santaigo

=================================================

               Jim B. Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

           Instrument Rated Pilot

     General Radio Telephone Certificate

     Retired Aerospace Technical Manager

=================================================

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

David, Where did you place your battery and what size (Wt.)  was it.?

 Did you have a problem with your CG? Also what are you using  for the max. cylinder temp. and oil temp.  Jerry of  GA       DO NOT ARCHIVE

  In a message dated 6/20/2009 11:46:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  To all, 

I got the scales    from my local EAA and did my W & B today. Empty weight seems to high at    820 lbs this is with a Corvair full oil, interior installed, drained all the    fuel that the drains would drain but didn't run the engine until dry, it has    wing lockers, landing nav and strobe lights, aileron trim, full panel of steam    gauges plus GPS. 

The CG computes out OK but still seems heavy on empty    weight. What ya think? 

David Coberly  601XL / Corvair    	


 A Good126575x1222585064x1201462784/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

annken100

Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 62

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Jim,



Your understanding of the weight of a Corvair engine is not accurate.  The Corvair weighs slightly less than a Continental O-200.  

As I understand it, the popular engines used in 601 by order of weight from lightest to heaviest is:  Rotax, Jabiru 3300, Corvair, Continental O-200, and Lycoming O-235.

I don't know where the Subaru engines fall in the weight order.



Ken Pavlou

_________________
601 XL / Corvair

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

On Saturday 20 June 2009 15:42, annken100 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Jim,



 Your understanding of the weight of a Corvair engine is not accurate.  The

 Corvair weighs slightly less than a Continental O-200. As I understand it,

 the popular engines used in 601 by order of weight from lightest to

 heaviest is:  Rotax, Jabiru 3300, Corvair, Continental O-200, and Lycoming

 O-235. I don't know where the Subaru engines fall in the weight order.


	


Interesting. Thanks for the update. 



The data I've seen on Corvairs has shown them to be heavier than the 

Continental. I do have the data sheets on on O200, and an O200 laying here, 

awaiting rebuild. But, as I don't have a Corvair, I'll bow to your knowledge 

in this area.



=============================================

                Do not archive.

=============================================

                Jim B Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

     Retired aerospace technical manager

=============================================

Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:22 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Jay, 

Well it's good to know mine is inline with others weight. Mine also has the dual sticks I forgot about. At least the CG falls within limits from just pilot and no fuel to two people and all the fuel up to 1320 gross it's just I will have to watch the fuel weight and baggage with two fair size people aboard. 

Thanks, David Coberly  601XL / Corvair  [quote][b]

Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Jerry, 

I am using the Odyssey 680 mounted on the rear carry thru behind the passenger seat as in WW's 601 manual. I'm really not sure on the max cht and oil temps someone else might pipe in on this to be sure.  David Coberly 601XL / Corvair 



 

 



     

     

     

     

  [quote][b]

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Mine is 815. The description of your airplane pretty well fits mine  

except for the engine. Mine has no paint on the exterior, just  

polished aluminum. I also have a cabin heater installed that weighs  

about seven pounds and cabin and firewall insulation.



On Jun 20, 2009, at 12:30 PM, Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I got the scales from my local EAA and did my W & B today. Empty  

 weight seems to high at 820 lbs this is with a Corvair full oil,  

 interior installed, drained all the fuel that the drains would drain  

 but didn't run the engine until dry, it has wing lockers, landing  

 nav and strobe lights, aileron trim, full panel of steam gauges plus  

 GPS.

 The CG computes out OK but still seems heavy on empty weight. What  

 ya think?

 David Coberly  601XL / Corvair


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Thanks Dave, think I am going to move mine from the firewall.  Jerry of GA   DO NOT ARCHIVE

  

  In a message dated 6/20/2009 4:23:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Odyssey    680 	


 A Good Credit1222585064x1201462784/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Earlier XL's have a lot more 016 in them.



Newer ones have a lot more 025.  Mine is mostly 025, except for some 016 in the tail.



Don't know if that would make much difference or not.  I'm guestimating that mine is going to come in around 775 with Corvair & BRS and minimal everything else.



Pat

Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Bryan, 

Same here polished except fiberglass parts painted I also have cabin heat valve and ducting so it sounds like I'm right in the ballpark with my weight. 

Thanks, David Coberly  [quote][b]

Davcoberly(at)wmconnect.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:39 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Pat, 

I also thought of that on the skins that were thinner on some parts in the past that would make some difference. David Coberly               Do not Archive  [quote][b]

davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:38 am Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Mine came in at 812 lbs with the .016 rear  skins.  An Excel Graphical Spreadsheet can be downloaded at this  address.

 My engine with Roy Szarafinski's 5th Bearing w/ no  dynamo or intake/exhaust manifolds weighed 216 lbs 

  

 http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm

                         Configuration:     Every Part that William Wynne Makes for a        2700 cc , .060 Overbore Corvair Engine including:                                                                                           WW SS Intake manifold          Marvel Schebler MA3-SPA Carburetor                            Falcon Heads               An-6 SS Fuel Lines                                      WW SS Exhaust manifold          WW Motor Mount                                      WW Nitrided Crankshaft          WW Deep Oil Pan & Top Plate                                 Warp Drive HP 66 inch 2 bladed Prop     WW Reconditioned Rear Accessory Case-Oil        Pump-Remote Oil Filter                  13 inch spinner & bulkhead                 Safety Shaft

                                        Roy Szarafinski's 5th bearing

       Minimal paint/polished      aluminum

                                                     Landing Lights, Navigation Lights, Strobe Lights,        Taxi Lights                                      Upholstery, .060 instrument panel, Nut plated top        forward skin, FW Battery Mount w/ 18 Ahr 15 lb battery                       Single point ground, Overvoltage Protection,  Rear Deck Mic & Accessory        Ele.                                 Two Axis Electric Trim                                                          Ventral Belly Access Panel                                                     Anywhere Map ATC GPS                                                     KLN 90B GPS, Narco Escort II Nav/Com, Dynon        EFS-D10A, Auto Meter gauges, VDO Tach                            King 76A Transponder, Blind Encoder, Panel Dimmer,                                                   Andair Fuel Valve & Gascolator and Braided SS AN-6        fuel lines from main spar forward.

        

       Gary Ray

       davgray(at)sbcglobal.net (davgray(at)sbcglobal.net)

        

                                        

 [quote]   ---

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:13 am Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

Hi Gary,



 I guess your engine weight explains why the Corvair approach is so much heavier than a Jabiru 3300.



 The Jab. comes from the factory weighing 178 pounds (if I remember correctly).  That includes the engine, propeller mount flange, integral alternator, starter, integral dual magnetos, dual distributors with spark plug wiring, 12 spark plugs, carburetor, mechanical fuel pump, intake distribution tubing, exhaust tubing, muffler, tail pipe, fiberglass ducts for cooling air (replace baffling) .  I think that weight also includes engine mount isolators and voltage regulator too, but I am not sure.



 Paul

 XL grounded



 

 At 03:35 AM 6/21/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]My engine with Roy Szarafinski's 5th Bearing w/ no dynamo or intake/exhaust manifolds weighed 216 lbs [b]

davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:39 am Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

I also have the WW front starter that was installed  prior to weigh in.

 [quote]   ---

pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:39 am Post subject: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

My 601XL/Corvair weighs 777 pounds, starter and all. The battery is behind the passenger's seat. 



I don't know Jabirus were so much heavier than Corvairs. 



Phil Maxson

Northwest New Jersey

mcjon77

Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Chicago

Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance on 601XL / Corvair

 	  pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM wrote: 	
		  ...I don't know Jabirus were so much heavier than Corvairs... 	




Theiy're not.  Jabirus are about 40-50lbs lighter than corvairs.

_________________
Jon McDonald
Building Sonex #1287
Next up CH 701 Very Happy

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